AJ

It will depend on what gun you are using. Some inline guns do not shoot conical bullets well. There is no way I would use a Powerbelt for elk. The Hornady FPB is a full diameter (no sabot) bullet in 300 or 325 grains that will do the deed. The Parker Hydra-Con is another great bullet. If your gun can shoot BlackHorn 209, that is the way to go. It is the number one black powder substitute on the market today. It has minimal fouling, higher velocities, and capable of great accuracy. Work up from 80 gr by volume and see where the sweet spot is for your gun. My .50 cal Knight Disc Elite likes 110 gr by volume with the Hornady FPB.

One of the drawbacks to New Mexico is one tag per species if you are fortunate enough in the draw. A stipulation for muzzleloader season is no smokeless powder. We can use inlines, sabots, and optical sights, but no smokeless powder. That being said, I am setting up my hi-perf muzzleloaders to take max loads of BlackHorn 209. I talked to Western Powders about the pressure levels generated by BH209 and they assured me that BH209 does not generate pressures like smokeless powder does. I have set the pressure limits for my Hi-Perf guns to 50k psi on average. The barrels are the same as you will find on any .458 Win Mag, .458 Lott, or 460 Weatherby Mag, the only difference is mine is threaded and has a steel breechplug inserted at the breech. The 150 gr by volume charges (105 gr by weight) of BH209 are only generating ~28k psi, so they are well under my max pressure limit. I am not implying that you can load 150 gr charges of BH209 in your standard off the shelf in line and be safe. I know some are thinking how can I be sure my loads are within my pressure limits, well, I am glad I asked that question. I am using a Pressure Trace II system that uses a strain gauge to measure barrel expansion and correlate that to pressure readings. I will be evaluating this gun for long range hunting of big game, elk specifically. The experts say 1500 ft/lbs of energy are needed to ensure proper penetration. After taking my first elk this past year, I can agree as they are huge critters. I am wanting a 500 yard muzzleloader, so I first need to find out what bullets will get me 1500 ft/lbs of energy retention at 500 yards and at what speed. I have been using the 300 gr Hornady SST/Shockwave bullet. It has an advertised ballistic coefficient of .250 and a sectional density of .210. I can get 2450 fps so running the numbers, the load peters out about 325 yards. Not good enough. The 325 gr FTX is slightly worse BC of .230 so it also does not reach past 325 yards. No Go. Looking at Parker Productions, the Hydra-Con looks like a tough bullet but its BC is not high enough. Same for the Ballistic Extreme. It's also a little fragile for up close hits. The Match Hunter on the other hand looks very interesting. The 325 gr Match Hunter has a .453 BC and at 2400 fps which is obtainable with BH209, it will retain over 1750 ft lbs of energy at 500 yards. Sweet! It will almost make it to 600 yards with enough energy. Now we are talking. For those lucky enough to use smokeless powder you can get 2700 fps which will give you out to 725 yards easily, which is very impressive from a front loader. More to follow.

Anyone here shooting the smokeless muzzleloaders? I am on my third high performance ML now. A Savage 10 ML II 50 cal, a custom Rem 700ML in .45 cal, and a H&R Handi Rifle converted to muzzleloader .45 cal. My goal is to get MOA groups at 500 yards. I will be using my custom Rem for my oryx hunt this December. Shots can get long range on them.

I did well this year. I managed to get off range oryx in December and deer with muzzy in the Gila. Maybe I can finally connect with a muley.

Yep I put in for the golden ticket at Valle Caldera for ML bulls. If that does not pan out my regular draw for Gila, Apache, and Cibola for elk kicks in. I also applied for oryx and mule deer. We'll see if the hunting gods smile upon me this year.

Congrats on the successful hunt PDR! The hunt is not a "shoot" like it used to be. We heard about the guvmint closing much of RC on the weekend of the hunt. What was the total kill? Iheard they opened up some of the area to the south for you guys, that true? Did your cow have full ears? We had a very hard freeze a couple years ago and many of the oryx have lost part of their ears from frostbite.

Even residents have a hard time drawing decent tags, so I find it hard to have sympathy for non-resident hunters. In fact in 2011 I did not draw any tags. I applied for deer, elk, pronghorn, oryx, and ibex, with three hunt codes per species, and drew nothing. What many don't realize is the draw is for public land hunts. There are private land tags available from landowners. These tags are not counted in the draw. You can get them from outfitters or landowners. The downside is they do not go cheap.

We did our Rhodes Canyon hunt Oct 5-7. Wow it was a tough hunt. The numbers are down a lot. We finally shot a 36" bull at 5:00 pm on the last day. Truely a 11th hour kill. There were 69 hunters and 58 kills (84% success). Top cow was 36.5" and top bull was 37.25". The day started out in the low to mid 40°s and rose to mid 80°s. We saw oryx Saturday morning but they were at 500 yards and it was a bit too far for my buddy. Could not close the distance on these. Sunday we hunted all day and I spotted one about 500 yards from the road. We took off on foot and the oryx expanded the gap to over 1000 yards. We snuck in and tip toed through a thicket and he popped out at 93 yards. Bang flop.

Hey Jeff, Yep, my October is full. I get to play spotter for a friend's oryx hunt the first weekend. I drew a ML bull tag in 16E for middle of October. I have a ML muley bucks hunt last week of October. Woo hoo! Since I drew nothing last year, this is much better! Did the hunting gods smile on you in the draw this year?

DH, I sent you a PM with some info you may find useful. Yep, your setup will do the deed if you put the bullet in the shoulder. Oryx are very very tough critters. Here is a 180 gr Rem CoreLokt 180 shot in my 300 Weatherby into my oryx: There was a slight hole on the off shoulder but the bullet did not exit. Top of the heart was shredded. This link has a pic that shows their body structure well. Gemsbok Shot Placement

Your .270 Win will be fine for oryx. Use a good tough bullet > 130 grains and you will be fine. Do not shoot them behind the shoulder as that is a gut shot. Practice long range shooting, shots from 200-400 yards are not uncommon. I will be playing spotter for a friend the first week of October in Rhodes Canyon hunt. I will let you know how it goes. They have hunted the heck out of oryx and the hunt is a lot harder than in the past. We had a very hard freeze 2 years ago where we were -16°F and many of the oryx have lost portions of their ears. If you get a chance at a big one it may have a funky face. Here are a couple pics from my off range hunt to get you stoked for your hunt.

For the IMR side, 4895 and 4064 are the most popular. If your friend is going to shoot long range, drop the 168 gr and go with 175 gr. They are much better past 600 yards. A decent load of 4064 or RL15 and you are set.

The newest 2011-2012 New Mexico Proclamation is out and I was shocked to read that on page 6 under Definitions and Terms it says: Muzzleloader Includes rifles and shotguns in which the charge and projectile are loaded through the muzzle. Only black powder, Pyrodex or an equivalent substitute may be used. Smokeless powder, including “Blackhorn 209” powder is illegal. Legal muzzleloading shotguns are those capable of being fired from the shoulder only. Muzzleloaders may use in-line ignition, pelleted powder, sabots, belted bullets and scopes. See Restricted Muzzleloader, next column. Restricted Muzzleloader (for certain deer hunts) Any muzzle-loading rifle (including a smoothbore flintlock or musket) using open sights in which the charge and projectile are loaded through the muzzle. Only black powder, Pyrodex or an equivalent substitute may be used. Smokeless powder, including “Blackhorn 209” powder, in-line ignition, pelleted powder, sabots, belted bullets, multiple projectiles and scopes are illegal. They allow Pyrodex, Triple 7, and other black powder substitutes but not BH209? This is crap. If you hunt in New Mexico or plan to apply for hunts here, and feel this is incorrect, be sure to contact the NM G&F and let them know this rule needs to change. Click here for contact information of NM G&F.

Actually, the Dillon will give you accuracy also. I reload my .223 and .308 rounds for my sniper rifle on the Dillon 650. I can shave about 1/8" off my groups on average for 5 seperate 5-shot groups by using a single stage but it is way too slow.

Gotta love someone's first post, hey I need info on a unit I drew. Jeeesh. You must know something about the unit or you would not have put in for it. I hunted Unit 23 a couple years ago for elk and mule deer. I did see elk sign, heard a real bugle, and saw elk, but I have no intentions of putting in for that unit again. It is one tough hunt. In the northern portion of the unit, Frieborn Canyon off of Saddle Mountain Road holds elk, it is vertical though. Horse Mesa and Bull Basin all hold elk. Just not large numbers. The hunters will be concentrated in the Northern section of the unit for elk.