Buzz

Here's a second vote for Blackhorn. Due to circumstances beyoun my control my MZ sat after having been shot almost a week. One wet swab and two or three dry ones cleaned it. That coupled with being able to shoot shot after shot at the range with no cleaning in between, it really has made MZ'ing a lot less work and a lot more fun for me.

A couple of things..... I have killed more deer than I can remember with a 45 cal T/C Cherokee loaded with a Maxi-ball and 70 grs of FFG. So 70 grs will, without a doubt, kill a whitetail deer. Unless Indiana has changed the law your setup is illegal. Projectile must be .45, .357 is to small.

I have an Encore. Wanting to let my son MZ hunt I loaded it with a 220 gr Barns/RedHot bullet and 70 grs of BlackHorn. At 70 yds almost a hole in a hole and very acceptable recoil. I figure out to 100-125 yds more than adequate to take a whitetail. As for the stock, buy a replacement and cut it off?

The more f's the finer the powder. F=cannon powder, ffff is flintlock pan powder. It's my experience that there's little difference between ffg and fffg, or, I've shot both out of the same gun with good results.

Yes I did/do donate the meat. I also had a relative* in DC that took 2-3 deer a year. It was a big deal for them to provide venison to their guest. And yes I had prime ground for a long time, some of which can now be seen on various hunting shows, Gametrails is one.... Luck...I don't know, of course a certain amount of luck is involved. That said I could, in my younger days, be pretty hard on any deer that didn't mind his p's and q's. Actually I'm still not nice to the poor things, but I was especially hard on them back in my day.... *Note they were both lawyers that worked on the team that was investigating the Monica/Bill thing.

Drink too much... I don't know. I saw a really overweight, ugly women in Wally World the other day with a few kids, so I know I don't drink as much as some... While I don't have the income to travel the world paying others to put me on game like Mr. Shocky, I have over the last 23+ years of hunting killed, I'd say, 200-250 deer between the couple of states I hunt, most laied to rest with an MZ. Have a few nice deer on the wall. So, I just might not be such a slouch with a MZ. I've never used anything over the barrel, only employed a little common sense, like keeping the muzzle pointed down. Just my experience.

And to reply, you wasted your time replying also, just to clarify.... Yeah I've been drinking again, sorry....

I didn't answer it? If water is getting to your charge you have bigger problems, meaning it your MZ is in proper working order and loaded correctly you're good to go. If I remember correctly there a vid out there where they take a loaded gun and submerge it then shoot it. I had a couple of beers and was being a smartazz, sorry. I didn't mean to upset you or waste your time....

So does the "out of state" rain worry you more than the "in state" rain does? Just exactly what state are you going to with this worrisome rain? I know, I'm being a dic#. Thing is these threads are amusing. You're going hunting... it might rain, might not also. If it does rain water might go into your barrel, might not also. If it does go into your barrel what's it going to do, ruin your charge? If it does you have bigger problems than rainy weather, IE gas can penetrate smaller openings than water....so if water is getting to your charge around your bullet gas is escaping past it.

If you have access to a compressor you might try forcing some air through the nipple as you pull on the rod.

I agree in so much as I wouldn't leave my gun sitting around two weeks uncleaned. It is nice however to not have to clean it immediately after shooting. There are evenings when I get home after hunting I just want to take a shower and crash. But these people stating they left their gun sit a few days or more and it was ruined, I just ain't buying that. Maybe if it were in a bathtub full of water....

Sorry, didn't mean to upset you but.... really think about it, cleaning a MZ barrel for 2.5 hrs straight... either he's dumber that a box of rocks or that's flat out BS. Either way.... Do a search for Blackhorn and rusted barrels and see what you find. I didn't come across anything to warrant concern. Seems like those guys are the only ones having problems. Now granted I wouldn't stash the gun away for a couple of weeks, but I have myself left my gun uncleaned in the garage for days with no ill effects. First hand experience, not something I read on the net. But, taken off another web site: So, I didn't mean to yank your chain, but on the other hand maybe a little reasearch would have been in order, as opposed to reading something then running around yelling "fire". Maybe all those guys work for 777.:shifty:

I don't know what to say, except I assume you work for 777. What could you possible do to clean a MZ barrel for 2.5 hrs straight, except maybe cut it in half, clean it, and weld it back together. :hammer1: If I hadn't left my Encore uncleaned in my detached garage for days I'd still call BS on your post.

Yeah I'm having a hard time getting shops around here to carry it. I think a lot has to do with the claims made in the past that didn't hold true. I don't think you'll be disappointed. :cool2:

I've used just about every powder since I picked up a MZ 25 some years ago and this stuff is the shitzz. No more patches after every shot, no more having to clean the gun upon walking in the door or else.... and great accuracy to boot. I shoot an Encore. FWIW Also might want to read this...

I can't tell you why but.... I've shot Knight bullets and sabots for a while, which is a Barn's bullet with who knows what sabot. Ungodly hard to load in my Encore. Bought some Harvester sabots and it's night and day. Easy, easy loading. Why?... don't know, don't care...

I shoot an Encore and love it. As I've said in other posts I took a doe last season at a little over 170 yrds. As for the Savage and smokeless, I think it was a bigger deal before Blackhorn powder hit the market. Now I just can't see buying a gun just because you can use smokeless out of it.

Barns Spit-Fire TMZ 290 gr Took a doe last year just a little over 170 yd. Good clean kills with great expansion.

My .02 Trying to ML "on the cheap" can lead to frustration and an early exit from the sport. Getting it right the first time is less expensive than trail and error. The link the poster provided is generally right on, but like anything else the sport advances from year to year. Take the poster above who stated "cleaning is essential". That is not necessarily true if using a powder like Blackhorn. Speaking of powder, I've used over the years BP, Pyrodex, 777, and American Pioneer. They were all OK, but Blackhorn has been, for me, the best, unless one likes cleaning their MZ after every shot. But it is expensive, so much so if one were considering only cost it would surly be past over. I've been doing this (MZ) for close to thirty years and here's what I use/need: cleaning patches cleaning jag solvent powder measure primers powder/Blackhorn 209 bullet/Barns Spit-Fire MZ Harvester sabots You can buy all kinds of other goodies but the list above is all one really needs, IMO. Good luck!

I'll say this about sighting in. The most I will ever do again is to sight dead on @ 100 yds and hold over at longer ranges. The reason being that the bullet out of most MZs are just starting to drop at 100 yds. So if you sight in say 2" high at 100 you may hit 4-5 inches high at 70. At closer ranges in the heat of the moment it's easy to forget that, leading to less than desirable results. On the other hand at longer ranges most times you have the time to think about shot placement and holding over. I would decide at what distance most of your shots will be taken at and sight dead-on there. My .02

Check out this thread if you really like your Encore. Blackhorn is basically smokeless. I've shot multiple times without cleaning between shots, have waited for days before cleaning, ect. It's expensive, relativly speaking. I mean compaired to a new gun it's cheaper than dirt.

Did a google search. 1500 ft lbs of engery min for a MZ to take a moose. For some examples go here.

Really depends on powder. With BP, 777, ect I ran a patch between every shot also. With the Blackhorn I don't. It's on the expensive side but it's well worth it to me.

Sorry, 50 cal.

No pics, sorry. Unless I take one of it half frozen after it sat all night. I don't usually take pictures unless it's a decent buck, or a pile of ducks. Anyway, mostly because I don't want to carry a camera around, but I really need to remember my phone. The one with the really nice camera in it.