WIwhitetailhunter Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Have any of you been following or heard about what's going on in WI for the past week? Gov. Walker has proposed his budget bill for the next biennium. In addition to calling for public employees contributing more towards pension and healthcare costs he is eliminating all collective bargaining rights except those related to wages (which has a cap). This is the bill which the Dem Senators are opposed to which prompted them to leave the state to stall a vote on it. I am a WI state employee. I am a correctional officer. I have been in Madison to oppose the Gov's proposed bill. I can tell you this...as a union member, these protests are not in regards to benefit contributions. The unions are willing to pay the proposed increases. These protests are in regards to the collective bargaining rights being stripped from the public unions. I was just curious as to what your thoughts are on this. Were you even aware of things going on in WI? What info have you gotten in your part of the nation? (I know Fox News was reporting negative/false info on things.) Are you a union member of either the public or private sector? If so, what are your thoughts should the time come and your collective bargaining rights be on the line? I am not posting this to "stir the pot" and turn this in to a debate/bashing post. I was just curious as to what you other forum member have heard and what your opinions are. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Caught a bit of coverage on this on Fox news last week, but not all the details that you probably have and probably not as current of information. As far as the budget proposal by the governor I really don't have enough information on that to form an opinion, but many states cuts are obviously needed to get budgets where they need to be. Would like to think the governor is trying his best to make responsible cuts. As far as those dems who have attempted to or have stalled this, they should be fired for turning their backs on their constituents and those left should do their best to iron things out in the best interest for all involved. My personal view on unions is that in some cases they have pushed things too far and unfortunately have created problems for both the companies and employees. Really a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 ...I was just curious as to what your thoughts are on this....You probably won't like my thoughts on this. In a nutshell, I do not think that public sector employees should be allowed to unionize or engage in collective bargaining agreements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotashRLS Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) I fully support Governor Walker:toot::toot: He is doing what he ran on in his campaign and that got him elected. The 14 Democrat Senators need to come back to Madison and face the consequences that the November elections have. Two years ago Dem Gov. Jim Doyle and these same Dem Senators (when they controlled the senate and house) slipped through a 1.2 billion dollar tax hike on the good people of Wisconsin. They introduced it on a Wednesday and passed it the next day. These 14 Democratic Senators are the definition of Hypocrites. They are flat out afraid of losing all the years of being bought out by the unions up here!!! :angry: Teachers need to get back to work. They are afraid of being paid according to their accomplishments in the classroom instead of tenure. It is nearly impossible to fire a bad teacher here in Wisconsin. That in my opinion hurts our kids, public school system and the funding crisis they are in. Oh I almost forgot, Jesse Jackson showed up to protest too.........what a JOKE! Edited February 21, 2011 by PotashRLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) I fully support Governor Walker:toot::toot: X's 2 Wi needs to balance the budget..yes Teachers / public emplyees are asked to pay in on Ins. & retirement, but only at half the rate of a private sector worker does now... we all are going to have to suck it up...just the way it is People within this union should look at it this way.. either pay a little in and keep your job... OR Lose your job completely because WI taxpayers cant afford to pay your way.. Duluth Mn. had the same problem with retired city workers...city was going broke because so much was promised out to retirement...it got cut out.. The Dems that took flight.... we know who you are and elections will thin you out next time around Edited February 22, 2011 by Mathews XT Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m gardner Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I have no collective bargaining rights myself. I just reach down, see if I have a set, then go talk to the owner of the company. I don't need a union to beat my employer to death. Looks like organized crime to me. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorden Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I think those people protesting should be at work or be fired...and since this is not an organized union protest they need to be in school teaching. But what do I know... Did you also hear there was some joke of a doctor at the protest writing work absence excuses for these people...and the news paper did a story about it!!!! Unbelievable...:no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzilla45 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I'm quite curious as to how this is going to play out. What happens in our great state is going to impact the rest of the country. It's not often that happens. The Wisconsin 14 needs to be fired for abandoning their constituents. However I'm actually glad they are gone right now. It sounds like there are about 100 bills that the rest of the assembly is going to pass tomorrow. From what I understand voter ID and concealed carry are 2 of them. Can't wait to get them passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 while the unions were once strong and needed, they are now greedy and slicing their own throat. 7% of american workers are union, and falling fast. the unions are "union busting" themselves and i'm all for it. if you follow the 30 year plus flow of jobs heading south to right to work states, and follow the same trend of liberal states job loss rates you'll see why i say this. it was, in very large part, the unions who got obama elected and they are now paying the price. goodby, and good riddence, unions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) Steve your are correct...this isnt about Teachers really.. The Unions bring in tons of money off teachers/public workers plus the insurance which the union makes them enroll into...where does alot of this money go??? Elections to put in Demacratics in office, including OBAMMA....that will vote in favor of what the unions demands...around and around it goes.. UNTIL NOW! we are going broke trying to pay the demands of the union bargianing(sp) ..it cant be done... Scott Walker campaigned on balancing our States budget..and he will not back down... the dems are cutting their own throats by not showing up for work... I say we stop their paychecks... Cut off any State credit cards they carry... take note of who went running, and vote them out next election 3.6 Billion is only the amount we need to make up to BALANCE this year... it IS NOT the amount WIS is in debt!!..what we actually OWE due to this mess... that amount is believed to be in the hundreds of billion dollars...perhaps as much as 1 Trillion..the Dems dont want you to know the truth....Unions are what keeps that party in power..they lose this..Obamma loses the next election..Dems lose power.. WE get our country back!! Now we have not even begun to mention the Nations debt.. you thought it was only 13 trillion...thats just the short term budget debt.. the long term.... Ive heard it is really somewhere between 70 to 100 trillion Edited February 23, 2011 by Mathews XT Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzilla45 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I keep seeing on TV and in various websites comments about how the Koch brothers are behind the entire right wing agenda and that they are trying to take over the country. Apparently the liberals have no idea who George Soros is and that he would have us being a socialist country if he got his way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Most jobs, you walk off or don't show up to work and you are done. Same should go for those elected folks who left Wisconsin and elsewhere where this is now happening. The special treatment they give themselves needs to stop and those senators need fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I was just curious as to what your thoughts are on this. Were you even aware of things going on in WI? What info have you gotten in your part of the nation? (I know Fox News was reporting negative/false info on things.) Are you a union member of either the public or private sector? If so, what are your thoughts should the time come and your collective bargaining rights be on the line? I am not posting this to "stir the pot" and turn this in to a debate/bashing post. I was just curious as to what you other forum member have heard and what your opinions are. Thanks Not sure what to believe on this if indeed fox is not accurately reporting, from what you say above it would seem there may still be a bit of misinformation out there that is being reported however the latest I have heard is that there has been agreement on the difference in what is to be paid by union employees. Kind of got to wonder here if all the folks they are showing protesting even know what it is that they are protesting. If the issue was solely about removing the rights of those unions to bargain on behalf of their members then I guess I don't see the reason for such protest that is now taking place in what 5 or 6 states. I mean non union folks have to fight for themselves, why can't those union members also work things out for themselves in the same manner if in fact this only about the collective bargaining rights, why is it necessary for them to feel they need a union to bargain for them, what do they have to be afraid of. I fully understand the idea behind unions and how they have power in numbers, but that is not always a good thing and personally see this as a perfect example of just that. Not saying it is the case here, but when a union makes unrealistic or irresponsible demands or will not work out issues with who they have a contract with(would be the states in these cases) then who are they really helping? Part of the issue apparently was with the idea of those union members paying for their own healthcare which appears in WI to be resolved, their part going from the neighborhood of 10 percent to around 30 percent. Seems pretty reasonable request since most private sector employees pay around half of their insurance and some more than that. If those state employees don't like it, they can surely attempt to find a place of employment somewhere they think might have better benes. Why should the private sector taxpayers be expected to pay for the state employee benes when they are already paying for their own? Increased taxes is where those funds will end up coming from one way or another. Far as I am concerned the feds need to set an example here and that should be addressed as well. In a time when unemployment rates are high some folks are happy to have jobs, yet there are others who are bickering and whining about not getting raises or about seeing a rise in their cost of benefits and here we have this topic on what place unions have or don't have. Systems are broke and need drastic measures to repair them, some people are not gonna like what it takes, but making repairs now will certainly beat the impending alternative if the effort is not made to fix these problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m gardner Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 All I know about the unions is that when GM laid off their machinists that were making $30.00 per hour plus benefits we were pretty happy because it's hard to find good machinists of that caliber (anyone making that money usually knows everything), or so we thought. They were so undertrained and overpaid it was ridiculous. The had to be retrained to be useful even as entry level employees. Being under union protection for years seems to mean that you don't need to grow with the job. Most of them had never programmed or operated a CNC machining center. It was good for me because we still can't find good people so I got a Christmas bonus, then a big raise recently and an apprentice/helper. Here's a video of the demonstration in Colorado in support of the unions. The flag is Mexican. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzilla45 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 The first step in the process took place this morning. The bill passed the assembly and now goes to the senate. It should get real interesting now seeing as the 14 cowards are still in Illinois. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIwhitetailhunter Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I think those people protesting should be at work or be fired...and since this is not an organized union protest they need to be in school teaching. But what do I know... For what's it's worth, I was one of the protesters. I used vacation time to be there as did the majority of those attending (yes, teachers get personal days). Should I and everyone who were there by "legal" means be fired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIwhitetailhunter Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 People within this union should look at it this way.. either pay a little in and keep your job... OR Lose your job completely because WI taxpayers cant afford to pay your way.. The paying in is not an issue. The unions have no problem increasing the pension and health care contributions. No one is asking the WI taxpayers to pay the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Bucknasty Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 The same legislation is being passed here in my home state. The unions in states like WI are a lot stronger than ones like we have in TN. When I'm making $30,000 per year for a teacher's salary, I don't feel like our union is much of a threat to the taxpayer or anyone else, but we're getting screwed out of the few benefits we actually do have here. We're getting stripped of our rights as state employees, and it is an absolute load of crap. All this BS about how teachers' unions are hurting our kids is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. When I was deciding to become a teacher, I don't remember thinking, "I think I want to hurt children and make a fortune off of the TN taxpayer." However, I do recall thinking to myself a few minutes ago, "I think I need to find another line of work because I'm getting tired of being dumped on by people who seem to have forgotten who taught them how to survive." I drive a 20 year old vehicle, live in a $40,000 home, eat out once every 6 months, I'll be paying my college debt until I'm 60, and I have to work a second job to feed my kid. I spend 8 hours a day trying to keep a bunch of undisciplined brats to behave so that I can educate both them and the few kids who actually want to learn. Now these ******** want to gripe about how I'm ripping off the American taxpayer? I really wanted to support the Tea Party and the Republicans because of their stances of firearms and moral issues, but I will be ****** if they get any help out of me after slapping me in the face like this. Can't vote Democrat either. Party politics is a load of crap. President Madison was right!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 The same legislation is being passed here in my home state. The unions in states like WI are a lot stronger than ones like we have in TN. When I'm making $30,000 per year for a teacher's salary, I don't feel like our union is much of a threat to the taxpayer or anyone else, but we're getting screwed out of the few benefits we actually do have here. We're getting stripped of our rights as state employees, and it is an absolute load of crap. All this BS about how teachers' unions are hurting our kids is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. When I was deciding to become a teacher, I don't remember thinking, "I think I want to hurt children and make a fortune off of the TN taxpayer." However, I do recall thinking to myself a few minutes ago, "I think I need to find another line of work because I'm getting tired of being dumped on by people who seem to have forgotten who taught them how to survive." I drive a 20 year old vehicle, live in a $40,000 home, eat out once every 6 months, I'll be paying my college debt until I'm 60, and I have to work a second job to feed my kid. I spend 8 hours a day trying to keep a bunch of undisciplined brats to behave so that I can educate both them and the few kids who actually want to learn. Now these ******** want to gripe about how I'm ripping off the American taxpayer? I really wanted to support the Tea Party and the Republicans because of their stances of firearms and moral issues, but I will be ****** if they get any help out of me after slapping me in the face like this. Can't vote Democrat either. Party politics is a load of crap. President Madison was right!!! Far as I am aware the debate is over collective bargaining, not cutting teachers pay or taking away any benefits. Of the articles I have read in regards to TN the two primary sponsors of the bill (Johnson and Maggart) are NOT pursuing taking away any benefits from teachers. Not sure where this about unions hurting kids is coming from either as your post is the first I heard of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 if this is how people react to taking away a few "benefits"..Wis is BROKE and so are the other states, along with the entire NATION.....we cant afford to pay what the UNIONS have historically promised. It's over..no more freebies Can you imagine whats going to happen when the economy collapses in a few years?? This is just piddley benefits for people who really can get along without them... when food becomes scarce and people cant afford to feed the family....this union thing is going to look like a hissy fit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m gardner Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 If unions are so good for our school system why have we gone from being the people with the best educations in the world to 35th since being unionized? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Bucknasty Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Far as I am aware the debate is over collective bargaining, not cutting teachers pay or taking away any benefits. Of the articles I have read in regards to TN the two primary sponsors of the bill (Johnson and Maggart) are NOT pursuing taking away any benefits from teachers. Not sure where this about unions hurting kids is coming from either as your post is the first I heard of that. Taking away collective bargaining is the first bill. They are following that with several other bills that do a lot of other things. For instance, one privatizes our state retirement, another removes teachers from being involved in the decision making processes in the department of education. Besides all of that, why would they need to take away collective bargaining if they didn't plan on doing that kind of thing? What would be the point? Would they really just want to tick off educators for nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Taking away collective bargaining is the first bill. They are following that with several other bills that do a lot of other things. For instance, one privatizes our state retirement, another removes teachers from being involved in the decision making processes in the department of education. Besides all of that, why would they need to take away collective bargaining if they didn't plan on doing that kind of thing? What would be the point? Would they really just want to tick off educators for nothing? Heard a while back that state funded retirements(pensions) were being looked at for all state employees due to funding, that back well before any mention of the happenings in Wisconsin, teachers were not even mentioned there. If a program is going broke do you keep on throwing money at it or try to fix it? Privatizing the pensions could be bad or could be good, certainly don't think it hurts to look at options. My understanding on the collective bargaining here in this state is that it is costing money for litigation that is basically blown money that would not be spent there. That could go elsewhere, not to mention it might make things easier for administrators in dealing with issues they face. My thoughts are that the folks who do what they are supposed to probably will have nothing to worry about other than possibly seeing a raise in cost of their benes, which sadly has been hitting most workers across the country. Seems to me that ever since Clinton was in office and the talks of socialized health care looked more possible that healthcare insurance rates have skyrocketed. Unfortunate for all of us who have to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Bucknasty Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 If unions are so good for our school system why have we gone from being the people with the best educations in the world to 35th since being unionized? I never said that unions were always good for our school system. Sometimes they are full of crap. That includes the TEA, but they are a necessary evil because the people on the other side are equally full of it, and they don't mind taking advantage of or screwing teachers. To compare it to something else- I don't personally like some of our local law enforcement officers, but I'm sure glad to have them around when the local meth heads start acting a fool. Certain people are there to make sure that you are safe. The TEA exists to protect teacher's rights, and YES they need protection. Anything the TEA or NEA does outside of that (which is plenty) is a load of bull. There are a lot of reasons that contribute to the drop in US education. A growing non-english speaking population, an increased poverty rate, various cultural changes both here and abroad, severely altered school disciplinary policies due to frivolous lawsuits, changes in the way students are tested in the world rankings, etc. take your pick. If you're going to make a statement like that, you really need to give some examples of how unions have negatively impacted education. Otherwise, you're just talking out of your bung hole. That sounds like something you heard on the news. If you don't think that our education is advancing, go pick up an 8th grade math book and see how many problems you can work. Go on the Tennessee Education website and look up the 4th grade standards and compare them to what you used to do in the 7th or 8th grade. Come to my school and see how much more "advanced" the English speaking Chinese, Japanese, German, or Latino immigrants are. They are no better or worse than any individual American student. Each nationality is merely educated in a different way. Most of my Europeans are more educated in history and politics but are behind in other areas such as the sciences, most of my Easterners have spent more time on math and usually work very well with data as opposed to abstract ideas which causes them to struggle in literature, my Latinos vary a lot depending on nationality, but in general, the older ones are usually more concerned with going to work than with getting an education. Our kids are generally not specialists in any subject area, but they know information from all of the core subjects. They can do a little of this and a little of that which does not make them look great on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Bucknasty Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Heard a while back that state funded retirements(pensions) were being looked at for all state employees due to funding, that back well before any mention of the happenings in Wisconsin, teachers were not even mentioned there. If a program is going broke do you keep on throwing money at it or try to fix it? Privatizing the pensions could be bad or could be good, certainly don't think it hurts to look at options. My understanding on the collective bargaining here in this state is that it is costing money for litigation that is basically blown money that would not be spent there. That could go elsewhere, not to mention it might make things easier for administrators in dealing with issues they face. My thoughts are that the folks who do what they are supposed to probably will have nothing to worry about other than possibly seeing a raise in cost of their benes, which sadly has been hitting most workers across the country. Seems to me that ever since Clinton was in office and the talks of socialized health care looked more possible that healthcare insurance rates have skyrocketed. Unfortunate for all of us who have to pay. I understand that we are going to have to take some cuts. Everyone is, but stripping us of our protection is something that I just don't feel is necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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