PotashRLS Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 If Unions are so good, why is it mandatory to be a member. Many times Union dues are taken right out of one's check. That is far from standing up for the "little guy, working class". EVERYONE should have the right to choose whether to join or not join a Union, public or private. I think Unions hide behind what they used to be about. Now they are about getting as much as possible and redirecting funds into the politicians hands that legislate on their behalf. TNBucknasty...........the Teacher's Union in Wisconsin is so powerful, we can't get rid of bad teachers and their is little to no accountablility and incentive for outperforming other teachers. Plus, they are making over twice what you do on average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Bucknasty Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) If Unions are so good, why is it mandatory to be a member. Many times Union dues are taken right out of one's check. That is far from standing up for the "little guy, working class". EVERYONE should have the right to choose whether to join or not join a Union, public or private. I think Unions hide behind what they used to be about. Now they are about getting as much as possible and redirecting funds into the politicians hands that legislate on their behalf. TNBucknasty...........the Teacher's Union in Wisconsin is so powerful, we can't get rid of bad teachers and their is little to no accountablility and incentive for outperforming other teachers. Plus, they are making over twice what you do on average. Our union here in TN is strictly voluntary. I know what is going on in Wisconsin and some of the other states, and I've worked union jobs in a couple of Northern states, and I know how far they have taken things. I was merely pointing out that because of what is going on up there, our state is taking the opportunity to strip us of our representation. We've done away with tenure, teachers here already pay most of our benefits out of our own pocket, etc. I can live with all of that, but I can't live with being stripped of my protection against some of the radical nuts that want to "reform" education. Abolishing the TEA would be to TN teachers what banning the NRA would be to gun owners. Edited March 2, 2011 by TN Bucknasty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 TNBucknasty...........the Teacher's Union in Wisconsin is so powerful, we can't get rid of bad teachers and their is little to no accountablility and incentive for outperforming other teachers. Plus, they are making over twice what you do on average. Kinda figure Wisconsin is probably not alone there with that Tracy. Think it only fair that school system administrators be able to make the decisions and actions they need to without having a union tie their hands. I have only ever worked one job where there was union, I never joined, but I saw first hand how tough it was for my supervisor to try to get rid of a deadbeat that I got to work with and carry at times. Frustrating for me, extremely frustrating for my supervisor. Maybe just maybe some of those who are not performing, who are probably also the ones who are so scared about their representation, will get thinned out in places where needed and allow for better budgeting or allow for some better quality teachers to move in places where they are needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Looks like Jeff stirred the pot a little! LOL I am part of this union as a state correctional officer. I've been there for over 14 years. I'm a Sergeant. I run a housing unit with one other officer there to help me. I'm in charge of about 144 convicted rapist, murderers, cop killers, child molesters, theifs, and whatever else you can imagine. Am I rich? No. Will i ever be? No. Do I love my job? No. Does it pay the bills and put clothes on my kids backs and food on the table? Yes. I am a proud republican that is getting the shaft because Mr. Walker decided to balance his budget the easiest way possible and that was on the state workers backs. I understand that I had great benefits. Why else would I put myself in a job where I get urine and crap thown at me because the child rapist didn't like what was on his tray? Two buddies of mine almost got killed at my institution by getting hit numerous times on their heads with a claw hammer. Ask those two if they are over paid. What Walker is doing is making the middle class get the state out of debt and make the rich richer. It's the American way right? He doesn't care if you have kids in school. He can afford to send his elsewhere. He cut over $800,000,000 from the school districts. That's over $500 per child, per year. Our school is already way over crowded. (much like our prisons) Collective bargaining has little effect on how much you tax payers pay. Don't forget, I'm a tax payer too! What it does have an efffect on is all the little businesses that will not get state workers money. There won't be anymore trips to the corner cafe. There won't be anymore family vacations "Up North". Hunting trips? yeah right... When Walker gets his way and privatizes wisconsin prisons and cuts my pay to $12 an hour, there won't be a lot of things... God help us! Sorry for the vent... :bang: P.S. If we have it too good, the state is always hiring correctional officers and the hunting isn't bad either if you can afford to do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Most of you know I'm a teacher, and I'm not going to try and sway you or preach to you. I don't know what to make of this mess. Ohio's in it too, and your state probably will be too. I see big changes in education in the next 15 to 20 years, and it comes right down what are your priorities? Your pie in the sky thoughts on how education might work if we privatize it would probably end up really disappointing you. Jeopardizing your child's future is an awfully risky field. Do I love the union? No. Do I appreciate it at times? Yep. I've seen a few good teachers get railroaded by a disgruntled parent, so it's nice when a union will stand up against a few disgruntled parents, that are disgruntled because their kid didn't get enough playing time or didn't get the grade they wanted. Merit pay? Nice thought. If you're not a teacher, you probably have no clue about how that would work. I'd love to hear your arguments. Personally, I don't need tenure. I'm a good teacher and I'll stand on my own merit. I'd love to be able to negotiate my own contract. As far as pay, I know I could do better in the private sector, but I love teaching, so I'll stay as long as my district wants me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Bucknasty Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Kinda figure Wisconsin is probably not alone there with that Tracy. Think it only fair that school system administrators be able to make the decisions and actions they need to without having a union tie their hands. I have only ever worked one job where there was union, I never joined, but I saw first hand how tough it was for my supervisor to try to get rid of a deadbeat that I got to work with and carry at times. Frustrating for me, extremely frustrating for my supervisor. Maybe just maybe some of those who are not performing, who are probably also the ones who are so scared about their representation, will get thinned out in places where needed and allow for better budgeting or allow for some better quality teachers to move in places where they are needed. I forgot to mention that TEA provides our professional liability insurance if it should happen that one of the local lowlifes tries to get some crack money out of me by saying that I traumatized their child. Yeah, I've worked in a factory in Jackson while I was in college, and it was a totally different situation. The only members were the slugs, and everyone hated the union there including me. All it did was hurt those of us who actually worked. I was really anti-union after that until I spent a couple of years teaching. There are a several slug teachers here where I teach, but they are not protected by our union. Doing away with tenure was actually a good idea. The whole idea of tenure was ridiculous to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Good discussion, can see Chris and Randy's and other points made and can see where there would be concern about cuts without having the collaborative bargaining to protect pay and benefits for those union employees. That said I would truly hope that any politician and those administrators in charge would have enough sense to know that teachers, leo's, and correctional officers for the most part are underpaid for what they do. No doubt retention of quality teachers is key to the future of our children and retention of law enforcement and correctional officers to the protection of everyone. Would sincerely hope that ending the union's part in their bargaining would not end with a result that would reduce pay for people like Randy by half, that would be catastrophic. Think doing such would not play into any politicians favor for keeping them in office for any duration and surely most are bright enough to realize that. Would hope that stripping the unions power would give more freedom to administrators, who should be qualified and capable of making critical decisions as I said before. School boards can be powerful Chris, we saw a prinicipal of a middle school here get railroaded over misunderstanding due to a kids petty prank and parents who just happened to be teachers and that was a real shame. Unfortunate that type of thing happens. Reality is that it happens in life in places where no unions are present or available everyday though for good people who have no protection. Suppose that a strong school board could also support a teacher they feel is worth keeping and make their arguments there. Guess the flip side to the republicans we are seeing trying to make what appears to some as responsible cuts/decisions is going back to the liberals who want to continue to spend like there is no tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Bucknasty Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Guess the flip side to the republicans we are seeing trying to make what appears to some as responsible cuts/decisions is going back to the liberals who want to continue to spend like there is no tomorrow. Its a shame that there is so little middle ground between the two parties when it comes to so many issues. The whole shifting back and forth between the "tax and spend" and the "penny pinching" sides every few years just keeps us all in such turmoil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I make around 47k a year. If this goes though, I will have to pay about $340 a month for my benefits. That said, I'm ok with it even though (after my divorce :angry::taped:) I will net about $1400 a month. Nice huh... Walker doesn't need to take our union, he's doing it because he's a Dictator and wants to screw state workers because many did not vote for him. He's a very mean person and eventually, he'll get his... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Sorry to hear that Randy. Don't know about elsewhere, but family benefits here cost us considerably more than that when we had state benefits through the wife's work at the state veterans home, she was employed there for a couple years. Seems like our monthly premiums drawn from the wife's pay the last year she worked there(2009) were around $600 a month that was with the state kicking in their part and the coverage really was not all that great but with kids you and I both know you got to have it. Health insurance is totally ridiculous and coverages are getting poorer and poorer. On Walker's plan, I had read that on the topic of collective bargaining he was trying to take away pretty well everything outside wages and was going to eliminate the union's ability to ask for raises beyond the rate of inflation without voter approval, however the unions would still retain some rights on nogotiating wages. Don't know how true that is or isn't, but seems that would be somewhat reasonable with the state of the current economy. Would seem that if what you said about Walker holding a grudge against state workers giving him influence to punish them so to speak could possibly have him in some hot water. I could be wrong but I believe that is unethical and would seem would have him potentially in a position to be defending ethics charges. Could get real interesting if that ends up being the case. Personally still think the senators who left need to be fired, they walked out on their job and on the people they represent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 while the unions were once strong and needed, they are now greedy and slicing their own throat. 7% of american workers are union, and falling fast. the unions are "union busting" themselves and i'm all for it. if you follow the 30 year plus flow of jobs heading south to right to work states, and follow the same trend of liberal states job loss rates you'll see why i say this. it was, in very large part, the unions who got obama elected and they are now paying the price. goodby, and good riddence, unions. Yep, well said Steve. I currently pay $400+/- per month for my (family's) benefits, which includes medical, dental, and vision. My private sector employer is nice enough to offer a 100% match to my retirement plan savings, up to 6% of my annual salary - but only after I've been here for 5+ years. The amount of vacation days I'm given grows with the years spent in service as well, topping out at 24 days per year. Nothing is given to me 100%, nor do I feel I should expect it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorden Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Nothing is given to me 100%, nor do I feel I should expect it.... Well said, I wish more people in this world felt this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzilla45 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I see now they are trying to arrest the missing 14 senators for contempt. I fear this hasn't gotten nearly as ugly as it is going to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I see now they are trying to arrest the missing 14 senators for contempt. I fear this hasn't gotten nearly as ugly as it is going to. GOOD!!! Hope they do arrest them after they fire them and strip away ALL of the benefits they are burdening the taxpayers with. Yep, well said Steve. I currently pay $400+/- per month for my (family's) benefits, which includes medical, dental, and vision. My private sector employer is nice enough to offer a 100% match to my retirement plan savings, up to 6% of my annual salary - but only after I've been here for 5+ years. The amount of vacation days I'm given grows with the years spent in service as well, topping out at 24 days per year. Nothing is given to me 100%, nor do I feel I should expect it.... Funny how that works isn't it Tom. Pension and vacation aside the state benefits my wife was getting were not any better than what she is getting where she is at now working for a privately owned nursing home. She is actually paying less now for our family insurance coverage here at the current time than she was in 2009. I do have to say the vacation time and holidays she got working for the state were pretty unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Here are some questions I would like to see asked: 1) How much are the union officials in Wisconsin being paid? 2) How much money have public sector unions contributed to each political party and to individual candidates? 3) How much money is spent by public sector unions on lobbying? 4) What type of offices/facilities are the public sector unions operating out of? 5) Who is paying for these public sector employees to skip work and attend these protests? 6) Are the dues collected by these unions being audited in an open and forthright manner? 7) How much money do the unions have in cash reserves? I suspect that most people would be shocked if they knew the real answers to these questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Union fleeces me for $700+ every year.:angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msman825 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 God bless us all, and where only human Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Ok, Heres a thought. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just a thought. Bill Gates makes Billions a year, correct? Tax him very high. After you make a billion, what's really the difference if you make any more than that? Take that money and pay off our bills. Lower the middle class's taxes and they spend more money elsewhere. This inturn boost the economy, makes Bill more money and he pays his workers more as well. We all can sit here and bash state workers and their benefits but shouldn't you really be asking yourself, why can't I get that too??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Here are some questions I would like to see asked: 1) How much are the union officials in Wisconsin being paid? according to the goverment reports, he made over $600,000. last year. 2) How much money have public sector unions contributed to each political party and to individual candidates? $40 million donated by the unions, 98.9% to democrats. (c.b.o. reports) 3) How much money is spent by public sector unions on lobbying? don't have that number 4) What type of offices/facilities are the public sector unions operating out of? executive suites for the leaders, with all expenses paid while on the road. 5) Who is paying for these public sector employees to skip work and attend these protests? the unions. (the workers) some are bused in with full room, board and pay. 6) Are the dues collected by these unions being audited in an open and forthright manner? yea, right (lol) 7) How much money do the unions have in cash reserves? I suspect that most people would be shocked if they knew the real answers to these questions. what we have to remember here is that the union workers are us, our neighbors, and our friends. my father was a union steward. no one, including the governor, is against the union workers. but the unions are clearly partisan and mis-managed. 30% of america is democrat and 30% is republican and the rest are others. why in the world did the democrats get 98.9% of the money donated for politics last election? to buy obama and the democrat support you are seeing right now in wisconsin, indiana, and the rest of the country. pretty simple when you look at the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorden Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Senate just took out the part of the bill that took away the collective bargaining rights and put it to vote and passed it 18-1. Apparently, on non-budgitary issues, they do not need the 20 members that did they did to pass the bill as a whole so now it goes to the assembly tomorrow where it is expected to pass. Senate advances collective bagaining changes; Democrats to return Thursday - JSOnline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c_lou Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 There could be some serious reprocutions(sp?) to that vote. If I am not mistaken the WI open meetings law requires 24 hour notice before any committee meeting is held. From what I have seen they only gave a 2 hour notice. I have a feeling the courts are not going to allow the happenings from this meeting to stand. My opinions on this matter are my own and I will not and have not shared them with anybody but my wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 As a correctional officer for the state of Wisconsin I have given up over 14 years of weekends, holidays, and nights for the benefits. They are being ripped away as I write this. I personally can't think of a single reason to continue to work in a prison filled with the worst of the worst of Wisconsins citizens. Maybe someone from the private sector could tell me how good I have it? Or maybe they could work for me Christmas day so I could spend it with my kids? Or maybe someone would volunteer to work a few weekends for me so I could try and find a few friends that have every weekend off and I could feel what it actually feels like to have weekends off again? Huh, I can't imagine the weddings, the anniversarys, church on Sunday mornings, the family get togethers, the weekends at the lake, the BBQ's, playing ball with my kids, actually having opening day of deer gun season off, taking my son out hunting on the weekends as he is in school during the week, the dance recitals for my daughter, going to my parents to just play games, anything and everything that people that have weekends off take for granted that I have missed out on. Yep, I sure have it good...:no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzilla45 Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Whether you were for or against this, it is now law in the state of Wisconsin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 ... Maybe someone from the private sector could tell me how good I have it? ...I don't know, try asking the guy that hasn't had a job for the past 18 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m gardner Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 I get tired of hearing about the "right" to collective bargaining. I believe it's a privilege granted by law not a right guaranteed by our Constitution. Looks like the law just changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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