Why shoot a 1.5 old buck?

[hoosierhunter]

I need somebody to explain to me why a hunter continually shoots 1.5 old bucks instead of does through their career.

This does not apply to new hunters, youth hunters, or special circumstances......

It's the first thing I saw:

Almost every area in the US has at least a 1:2 buck to doe ratio and most are way higher than that so the harvest opportunity is at least twice as great for a doe than a buck. Yet those does get to walk and the buck catches lead.......

I'm a meat hunter:

So the only deer that presents shot opportunities if bucks? Hard to falthom

I don't care about rack size:

Then why does a rack matter to you at all?

We have too many deer:

Will a doe or buck harvest reduce the population quicker?

It's tougher to kill a buck:

WRONG..there are just less of them to kill, but they are no harder to kill. In fact a doe will be harder to kill given they don't get rut crazed and chase tail with no regard for safety for two weeks.

I only hunt a few days a year, I can't choose to be picky:

This actually holds a little water, but only for hunters whose schedule dictates this, not the hunter who just wants to hunt opening day.

I just like to kill:

Simple answer is that you have a complete disregard for the sport if that's your only reason

My nieghbors will just kill him if I don't:

maybe, maybe not.....you don't know if they will see him or hit him for that matter.....Besides this is being a follower and not a leader mentality.

It doesn't matter because I don't have gentics in my hunting area:

Genetics matter, but age is considerably more important that this.

It's about the overall experience, not how big the deer is:

ok again then get your experience by killing a doe

I don't own anyone an explanation:

Well then you shouldn't be in the conversation to start

It was the last day:

So that means it's the first deer that presented a shot opportunity

Those are the arguments I can think of right now and honestly all I can come up with is mindless excuses for it.

Of couse we all can dream up so silly excuse or scenario to argue this, but in general I can't think of a legitimate reason outside of the average hunter just wants to be able to say I killed a buck.

I'm not saying if makes you a better or worse hunter/person for killing a small buck as compared to the guy who chooses not to. I'm just trying to understand the logic behind it.

[Rhino]

Pat for some it's just an ego thing. It's "i got my buck" bragging rights. Size doesn't matter. For others it's bragging rights for filling limits for states with liberal bag limits. All ego! Other than that and what you already said is all I can think of.

It isn't that way here in MS. The law for legal bucks was changed 3 years ago (I think) to protect ALL 1 1/2 year old bucks. In the area I hunt (zone 3) a legal buck has to have a minimum of 12" inside spread or 15" main beam. Legal bucks in zones 1 & 2 are 10" spread or 13" main beam. Needless to say you won't hear anyone bragging about killing a 1 1/2 year old buck down here!

[swohiodave]

Some people consider any deer a trophy or hunt for meat and do not care what they shoot. I know I have had more shots at button bucks in the last 2 deers than at does. Just how the cards fell. I will let them go but I know a guy that feeds his family for the year with deer meat so he shoots anything that comes in front of him, and I do not blame him for it. He hunts to provide.

[Turkeygirl]

Some people consider any deer a trophy or hunt for meat and do not care what they shoot. I know I have had more shots at button bucks in the last 2 deers than at does. Just how the cards fell. I will let them go but I know a guy that feeds his family for the year with deer meat so he shoots anything that comes in front of him, and I do not blame him for it. He hunts to provide.

Agreed...I myself, it's more about meat than antler. I do pass on smaller bucks though, I try to shoot only a 6 or better, but I don't obsess over antlers.

I think I could drum up the question "Why do hunters only shoot the deer with big antlers?"

[Rhino]

I think I could drum up the question "Why do hunters only shoot the deer with big antlers?"

Your idea...Crank up the new thread Ruth!

[MUDRUNNER]

If it's a legal deer and not on land I own then who am I to say what they should or shouldn't shoot. I've killed plenty of 1.5 year old bucks in my time. Shoot, for quite a few years anything with antlers was a trophy to me. I just reached a point a few years ago when I decided that I wanted to start killing a little bigger deer, and it took about 10 years to reach that point. There have been several times over the last few years that deer I have passed on have been shot by other hunters who were proud of the deer, and I was happy for them. I hunt more for the outdoor experience, commradery, and to provide good meat for my family than just to have a wall full of shoulder mounts. Like the Drury boys say..."If the moment moves you, then pull the trigger".

[wtnhunt]

Could understand this in a young hunter or a hunter with little experience, but you said are not asking about them.

Honestly think there are a lot of shooters around here who just don't care enough to even take the time to judge what they are looking at before taking their shots. Then there are those who would not know the difference in a 1.5 and 3.5 year old. Too many with the "brown its down" mentality. They see brown and they shoot. Under our regs it is legal to kill pretty well unlimited number of does, that in my mind kind of encourages the potential for those who may not care about management to make mistakes and shoot a button or doe, kind of makes it less critical in id'ing how good the animal you are shooting if that makes sense.

Far as the tagging out on anything with antlers and ego, I personally don't get it, cannot see how guys brag to their buddies about tagging out(3 buck limit) on dinks, and I am not talking about guys who hunt because they eat everything they kill and not talking about new hunters either. We still have problems here with people filling tags for their parents, grandparents, girlfriends, cousins, and etc who kill more than their statewide 3 buck limit and processors with leftover meat in their freezers that no one ever comes back for. Got to be frustrating for the game wardens.

Our wildlife managers answer to quality management, let hunters make their own management decisions and allow them to potentially eradicate the doe herd, our doe limits are 3 does a day from archery open to season close and this is taking place in places where densities are estimated to be 10 deer per sq mile.

[loner]

there are many reasons as you are reading in this thread.there are hunters and there are trophy hunters.there are rich hunters,guided hunters,average hunters with private land with goals,there are average hunters who have no land or can't afford to lease or join a club who hunt public land.all categories of hunters have different reasons for their actions.my take is that a person buys a license or permit and they are entitled to take their game as the law allows.those of us that have been there and done that have no right to force our opinions or thoughts on any law abiding hunter.

[dbHunterNY]

many hunters i know of feel that if they do shoot a buck then they won't get harassed for "getting skunked" and not getting anything. also many around here only purchase the regular gun season license. in ny this means that you can only shoot a buck. where i hunt we're getting some of the others to have the mentality that to shoot a spike or younger deer just to fill a tag is grounds to get harassed. although if someone has reasons for shooting one other than ..."meh ...it was there and it's a buck. i guess." then we back off. it's the only way that's started to work unfortunately. they're slowly discovering QDMA (not trophy management) though so things are looking up.

[need2hunt]

ok this is just my opinion and my stance...

Because I wanted to... Because I live in America... Because I have the right to decide for myself and don't really care what anyone else thinks.

But that's just me. I've shot big deer, hunted big deer only, passed on more 1.5, 2.5 and 3.5 than you can shake a stick at, prefer to shoot a buck 140 and up. But with saying all that I shot a 1.5 year old spike this last year. I could have shot the bigger doe that he was trailing but decided not to. I had put the work in, cut paths through the honeysuckle so the deer would even come on my side of the fence, that evening everything worked out perfect, I watched the game had a great show and took my shot right where I planned and he fell 30 yards from whee I shot him. All in all it felt right and I chose to shoot, that's how I hunt, it's about my gratification not anyone elses.

[Tominator]

Because I wanted to... Because I live in America... Because I have the right to

decide for myself and don't really care what anyone else thinks.

:yes:

But that's just me. I've shot big deer, hunted big deer only, passed on more

1.5, 2.5 and 3.5 than you can shake a stick at, prefer to shoot a buck 140 and

up. But with saying all that I shot a 1.5 year old spike this last year. I

could have shot the bigger doe that he was trailing but decided not to. I had

put the work in, cut paths through the honeysuckle so the deer would even come

on my side of the fence, that evening everything worked out perfect, I watched

the game had a great show and took my shot right where I planned and he fell 30

yards from whee I shot him. All in all it felt right and I chose to shoot,

that's how I hunt, it's about my gratification not anyone elses

Yep. Ditto. I shot a puny 1.5 yr old in 2009, because I wanted to. Took some razzing, and raised eyebrows from a few friends, but that's ok.

[Ohiobucks]

I need somebody to explain to me why a hunter continually shoots 1.5 old bucks instead of does through their career.

This does not apply to new hunters, youth hunters, or special circumstances......

It's the first thing I saw:

Almost every area in the US has at least a 1:2 buck to doe ratio and most are way higher than that so the harvest opportunity is at least twice as great for a doe than a buck. Yet those does get to walk and the buck catches lead.......

I'm a meat hunter:

So the only deer that presents shot opportunities if bucks? Hard to falthom

I don't care about rack size:

Then why does a rack matter to you at all?

We have too many deer:

Will a doe or buck harvest reduce the population quicker?

It's tougher to kill a buck:

WRONG..there are just less of them to kill, but they are no harder to kill. In fact a doe will be harder to kill given they don't get rut crazed and chase tail with no regard for safety for two weeks.

I only hunt a few days a year, I can't choose to be picky:

This actually holds a little water, but only for hunters whose schedule dictates this, not the hunter who just wants to hunt opening day.

I just like to kill:

Simple answer is that you have a complete disregard for the sport if that's your only reason

My nieghbors will just kill him if I don't:

maybe, maybe not.....you don't know if they will see him or hit him for that matter.....Besides this is being a follower and not a leader mentality.

It doesn't matter because I don't have gentics in my hunting area:

Genetics matter, but age is considerably more important that this.

It's about the overall experience, not how big the deer is:

ok again then get your experience by killing a doe

I don't own anyone an explanation:

Well then you shouldn't be in the conversation to start

It was the last day:

So that means it's the first deer that presented a shot opportunity

Those are the arguments I can think of right now and honestly all I can come up with is mindless excuses for it.

Of couse we all can dream up so silly excuse or scenario to argue this, but in general I can't think of a legitimate reason outside of the average hunter just wants to be able to say I killed a buck.

I'm not saying if makes you a better or worse hunter/person for killing a small buck as compared to the guy who chooses not to. I'm just trying to understand the logic behind it.

I think you're thinking about it too much. Who cares what other hunters decide to shoot and why? If it's legal, I don't care.

I will raze friends though, much like they would raze me, but that is part of the fun of hunting with friends.

[ruttinbuc]

People hunt for different reasons. The thrill of the hunt regardless if I pull a trigger or not does it for me. It has never been a numbers game. I'll shoot a doe or two for the freezer and then hold off for a good buck. I really don't have to kill or have anything to prove to anyone. Hunting and honing my skill does it for me.

I admit that I am troubled by what whitetail deer hunting has become in many places. The commercialization of the tradition has been a detriment and will only continue to take away from it. We already see a decline in participation due in part to the high costs and the somewhat outlandish "legal" regulations in place.

[Dawg]

My old man raised me to enjoy my time in the outdoors, period. If that meant shooting a spiker, then that's what happened. Thus I teach my son the same thing. When the opportunity arises and you want to shoot whatever deer it is in front of you, go for it as long as it's legal. That's what hunting is to me. It's not about trophies and bragging rights.

[toddyboman]

This should be a fun thread.......

No disrespect to anyone but here are my thoughts on the topic....

Pat for some it's just an ego thing. It's "i got my buck" bragging rights. Size doesn't matter. For others it's bragging rights for filling limits for states with liberal bag limits. All ego! Other than that and what you already said is all I can think of.

Yup I hear alot of that in this area....Last day/weekend of season guys will shoot anything that moves just to say they filled their tags or got their buck...

The same with turkeys.....I know lots of guys that will shoot a jake on the last day just to say I filled both of my tags....

I think I could drum up the question "Why do hunters only shoot the deer with big antlers?"

Because I would prefer to shoot an old wise buck......The little ones in MY HUNTING area are EASY to shoot I like the challenge of the older bigger antlered bucks......Do I always accomplish this nope. but thats part of the fun IMO!

Heck I sometimes get caught up in the hunt and make a wrong decision.... But generally I am after the older wise buck....which just happens to have bigger horns.

Then there are those who would not know the difference in a 1.5 and 3.5 year old.

I agree to this too.....I see this first hand often. We all and often see pictures of deer that people think are much older and score much higher than they do.....

My old man raised me to enjoy my time in the outdoors, period.

Nothing against your old man cause mine use to say the same thing......the "older" hunters remember the days when deer where few and fair between. I remember my grandpa and dad talking about how they use to get so excited just seeing a DEER TRACK more less a deer. So they shot any deer they saw. Well no disrespect to those older hunters but times have changed and deer are plentiful in most areas....

I am 100% in the camp of please pass the younger bucks and shoot a doe but I don't and can't get to mad at other hunters for shooting buttons and little bucks. They are legal to take and it is on their property.... I'm as happy from some of my hunting buddies when they take smaller deer its not for me but that is my decision......

The argument of I'm a "meat hunter" and I hunt for meat to feed my family I struggle with this one. Yeah I shoot a couple does each year for meat in my freezer.......BUT think I could go buy meat at the store A LOT cheap then what I paid to shoot this 150 lbs deer that only has 75 lbs or less of meat......Figure your gas, time, equipment, tag cost and if you have someone else process your deer.....that 75lbs of meet is pretty pricey....

:) :) :)

[Rhino]

This should be a fun thread.......

Yep...sure is! We needed to inject some life into this place anyway!:yes::rockon::drink:

[Dawg]

Yep...sure is! We needed to inject some life into this place anyway!:yes::rockon::drink:

Exactly!

[need2hunt]

It's about time we had some fun in here... so why is it that a hunter that fills his tag on a smaller buck is considered egotistical, but a person that only hunts "old wise" bucks or for antlers isn't doing it for ego?? :D Aren't they the ones that are considered so much better than the "average" hunter? Sure sounds like ego to me :D

[hoosierhunter]

glad to see so many throwing in on this one.

Still though saying that size doesn't matter is not answering the question. If it didn't matter then you would shoot a doe instead is my theory..........

The "it just felt right" is not a bad idea, but I would interject why not use self discipline at that point and pass and shoot a doe later.......

I think what it all boils down to is two things:

EGO

Management doesn't matter to me

Again I'm not trying to rip anyone for their decisions because in reality the important part is just that you are actually hunting and helping to preserve and pass it on to others, but I have to play a little devils advocate here to get to the root of people's thoughts.........

[wtnhunt]

It's about time we had some fun in here... so why is it that a hunter that fills his tag on a smaller buck is considered egotistical, but a person that only hunts "old wise" bucks or for antlers isn't doing it for ego?? :D Aren't they the ones that are considered so much better than the "average" hunter? Sure sounds like ego to me :D

Dunno if this is directed at me or not with my prior reply Gary, but I kind of take issue with the guys that feel they have to boast about how many bucks/deer they are able to kill and how great a hunters they are when they consistently kill 1.5 year olds, spikes, and buttons.

We are allowed 3 antlered bucks here in TN, antlered deer are deer with 3+ inches of bone so understand we have a number of bucks removed each year that do not even count as antlered deer.

To each their own though and I have no issue with someone hunting to fill their own needs, but to hear some people I know around here who brag on themselves about the numbers thing and how they tag out just is not my thing and I can choose to walk awawy from those discussions. That is where I see the ego thing, when a guy kills 20+ deer in a season only to be able to one up his buddies then I see it as being an ego issue. I am not talking about someone killing deer to feed their family here either. Maybe I am wrong dunno, I hunt for my own goals and I understand and can appreciate someone else not having the same goals as mine, but when a guy is killing deer only for bragging rights with his buddies there is some degree of that being ego driven imo.

[pruts]

It's about time we had some fun in here... so why is it that a hunter that fills his tag on a smaller buck is considered egotistical, but a person that only hunts "old wise" bucks or for antlers isn't doing it for ego?? :D Aren't they the ones that are considered so much better than the "average" hunter? Sure sounds like ego to me :D

I agree, guess it depends on your interpitation of what is egotistical. But it seems like a case of the pot calling the kettle black, and vise versa.

ok this is just my opinion and my stance...

Because I wanted to... Because I live in America... Because I have the right to decide for myself and don't really care what anyone else thinks.

I live in Canada but otherwise agree. If it's leagal it should not bother anyone else.

I am one of the new hunters mentioned in the start of the thread. Only having hunted for two years even though I'm 30 and not shot a deer yet I will take a shot at almost any deer I get the chance to. I have personally decided not to shoot at a fawn and did hold off on one last year for a chance on the doe with it, who spooked then ran. Leaving me with a great experiance.

But a buddy of mine shot a fawn last year and I was happy for him. Even though I would have passed.

[Strut10]

Some people just don't care about the antlers.

Take my brother, for example. He's 50 years old. LOVES to hunt deer and he's good at it. He's probably taken 25 bucks or more over the last 38 years. He doesn't read Deer & Deer Hunting, probably doesn't know what QDMA stands for and doesn't watch the Outdoor Channel. So, obviously, he has no clue that he's supposed to be ashamed of himself for shooting a 1.5 y.o. buck.

Point is this............ the measure of his success, in his eyes, is not antler size. It is the experience of the hunt.

Sometimes I think that if more deer hunters would get back to this basic strategy, we'd all be a lot better off.

[hoosierhunter]

so why is it that a hunter that fills his tag on a smaller buck is considered egotistical, but a person that only hunts "old wise" bucks or for antlers isn't doing it for ego?? :D Aren't they the ones that are considered so much better than the "average" hunter? Sure sounds like ego to me :D

Personally I can say 100% it's about challenging myself, but my personal ego also plays a big role into my killing older deer. I'm very proud when I kill an old bruiser and more proud of that deer than I am of a young doe that I killed. How could I not be? Killing any deer is an accomplishment to be proud of, but when you kill the monarch that's a whole new level. When you have poured over every detail that you know about that big deer and created a plan to kill him and it's happens there isn't a better feeling than that. I've killed large bucks when I wasn't trying to do so and believe me you couldn't get the smile off my face at that time. I've also killed deer by hunting that specific deer and that feeling absolutely is uncomparable.

[hoosierhunter]

Some people just don't care about the antlers.

Take my brother, for example. He's 50 years old. LOVES to hunt deer and he's good at it. He's probably taken 25 bucks or more over the last 38 years. He doesn't read Deer & Deer Hunting, probably doesn't know what QDMA stands for and doesn't watch the Outdoor Channel. So, obviously, he has no clue that he's supposed to be ashamed of himself for shooting a 1.5 y.o. buck.

Point is this............ the measure of his success, in his eyes, is not antler size. It is the experience of the hunt.

Sometimes I think that if more deer hunters would get back to this basic strategy, we'd all be a lot better off.

Strut-

Doesn't that absolutely boggle your mind though? 25 bucks yet he continues to whack and stack. That's my point. What's so special about that. Why doesn't he just shoot the does then?

That's my whole point is why not just shoot the does?

[Ravin R10 man]

I understand the frustration of letting deer grow only to have them shot across the fence, or by a spotlighter. We cant dictate to others what to kill if it's a leagal animal, unless they are on a managed parcel as a guest or member.

Holding out for a mature buck does not make anyone better than another hunter, it's a choice, just like the guy who chooses to shoot a spike.

Anterless herd control can go either way also..some will not kill a doe ever..others heck ya, lets fill some tags, donate some and keep the herd in balance..again personal choice

some are on ego trips, or so it seems...I've killed some nice bucks, but to me it's between me and the animal i have seen and decided to wait for...not anything to do with "mine's bigger than yours"

Edited July 1, 2011 by Mathews XT Man