blackranny Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 First, the intro to this - Last year I got sole rights to a 100 acre farm. Plenty of oaks, corn on about 30 acres, I've put in several plots and there are plenty of deer. Harvested 2 does and let all the bucks seen walk. I am in a part of VA where dogs are allowed for the entire gun season. I am a stand hunter and the landowner does not want dogs on the farm, but there is a club that leases next door and they don't care if there dogs stray. My dilemma is I have an really nice 4 1/2 y.o. 8 pointer that was a 6 last year and he's got a buddy that will be very nice next year. The 8 is my target this season. There are 2 more lesser bucks running with these two that given time will be decent bucks. The neighbor club will take anything with horns! They took out a nice buck I let walk to grow for this year. Anyone else out there that has this problem also? What do you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Not much you can do, especially with trying to manage just 100 ac. Deer are legally the property of the state until they are legally havested and reduced to possession. We used to have a similar problem with our main neighboring club. We have ~2,700ac. and they have about 3,000. We used to have a fairly liberal (IMO) harvest criteria too that was based on points. Our neighbors blasted any legal buck, which was 4 points or better back then. They occasionally ran dogs...we never have. We weren't willing to try to set up a harvest criteria favored to grow mature bucks without their cooperation. About 6 years ago we finally got them to go along with a new harvest criteria but it took a meeting with our DMAP biologist, their head honcho, and ours to convince him what needed to be done if we all wanted to grow and kill mature bucks. Our other neighbors were already on a similar harvest criteria that was set by the landowner leasing to them. The first 2 years were sort of lean while we passed younger bucks to mature. Now we're all enjoying the fruits of our efforts seeing and killing a lot more mature bucks, by far than we ever have. The past couple of years we've killed ~75% of the buck numbers we used to kill in the old days but now we're killing mature bucks, along with a few 3.5 year olds. About the only thing you can do with that land is try to get your neighbors to go along with some sort of cooperative effort to grow older bucks. If they aren't willing to do that then there's only 2 options that I can think of that you have. Live with the current situation or try to find another place where there's an area large enough that's managed in a cooperative way to grow older bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Good reply above. Similar situation to yours here aside from the dogs, we own 60 and have sole rights to the adjacent 30 some odd acres of hardwoods. There are 3 different properties bordering our line on the back side and those farms pretty well anything goes. Have tried to talk with the person holding the lease on the largest neighboring farm and he agreed with me on passing smaller bucks. Unfortunately it seems the multiple other people he allows on that lease his brother included are not on board with that and seem to hold the brown its down mentality. Been a number of deer we have passed up that have gotten killed back behind us. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 ...I am in a part of VA where dogs are allowed for the entire gun season. I am a stand hunter and the landowner does not want dogs on the farm, but there is a club that leases next door and they don't care if there dogs stray... Surely there are laws on the books that state what will happen to the owners if they fail to control their dogs and keep them on the property where they have permission. If you see the dogs "trespassing", get pictures (preferably video) with correct date and time stamps and take those to the proper authorities. I would assume your local game warden would be the correct place to start. Repeat this EVERY time you see it happening. It may take numerous attempts, but sooner or later your neighbors will get the message. As to letting deer walk, well it's true that a lot of the young bucks with good potential will get whacked by a neighbor, but a few may slip by. And remember if you shoot a buck just because you think the neighbor will shoot it, well......then YOU ARE that neighbor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Surely there are laws on the books that state what will happen to the owners if they fail to control their dogs and keep them on the property where they have permission. Not here is MS! I guess their attitude is dogs can't read and don't know any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbHunterNY Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 even if it was 4 times that, there's not much you can do without the neighbors. that said every buck you pass will not be shot by them, but many might be. even if they don't work with you, maybe they will be a little less ignorant with their dogs running free. any buck you pass still has a chance to grow. if you shoot it, it has none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Not here is MS! I guess their attitude is dogs can't read and don't know any better.Really! I find that very odd. I assume there are the usual trespass laws regarding private property, so how do the owners retrieve their errant dogs if they (the owners) don't have permission to enter the property? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbHunterNY Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 i wonder how many dogs aren't needed to be retrieved, because of such very odd laws and aggrevated unlawful neighbors. seems like a very disrespectful loop hole, that can cause confrontation and bitterness. glad that stuff isn't going on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackranny Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Here in VA there is NOTHING one can do to stop dogs from running deer on your property if they were let loose on property where it was OK. Unless you erect a fence! It really burns my rear when I got to the trouble to create plots, add supplements, create mineral licks and try to grow 5 y.o. deer and have someone else benefit! Oh I get into heated discussions with the dog owners, but legally there is nothing I can do. Heck, here a dog owner can trespass w/o weapons to retrieve a dog without my permission!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Surely there are laws on the books that state what will happen to the owners if they fail to control their dogs and keep them on the property where they have permission. If you see the dogs "trespassing", get pictures (preferably video) with correct date and time stamps and take those to the proper authorities. I would assume your local game warden would be the correct place to start. Repeat this EVERY time you see it happening. It may take numerous attempts, but sooner or later your neighbors will get the message. Not here is MS! I guess their attitude is dogs can't read and don't know any better. Not legal to hunt deer with dogs here, however we have beagle hounds from rabbit hunters end up on us from time to time and we also get coon hounds over on us. I have watched hounds track deer and run them and it can spoil a hunt real quick when they push deer off your property. Well trained dogs are not supposed to chase deer from what I hear but their nature is their nature and in my mind it is not so much the dogs fault as it is the owners who do not control their animals. Wildlife officials here have told me "dogs cannot read signs" and so unless the owners follow them onto your land there is really nothing you can do. Not legal here for hunters to go on any property they do not have permission on, not to recover a deer and not to recover their dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Really! I find that very odd. I assume there are the usual trespass laws regarding private property, so how do the owners retrieve their errant dogs if they (the owners) don't have permission to enter the property? Generally they call them from the road if they can. I have a pen to keep them in at the camp, they get dumped in there (if I can get my hands on them) and then I give the owner a call. If the owner doesn't show up by that night, the pup gets a trip up the road toward the neighbor's club and dumped out. Most have radio collars and can be found easy enough. I don't have much patience for our neighbors dogs, they have a state hwy to catch them on when they come across, but they make no attempt. Last couple of years havent been too bad though for us. We have about 1500 acres, and believe me, one walker can stir up every acre of it in 2-3 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Really! I find that very odd. I assume there are the usual trespass laws regarding private property, so how do the owners retrieve their errant dogs if they (the owners) don't have permission to enter the property? John covered some of this. Yes it is very odd but that's the way it is here. MS law is more interested in protecting the dog than the landowner's rights. They'll let a trspasser off the hook in a heartbeat if his excuse is he was looking for his dogs. I don't like it either but there's not much I can do about it except complain to the powers that be at the state. Obviously nothing has changed from past complaints except to be told by MDWF&P representatives "hunters shouldn't fight amoung each other but unite as hunters regardless of our differences". Fortunately it's not as bad as it used to be in the area I hunt. That's probably due to the annual cost of keeping a pack of deer hunting dogs. When dogs get on us they will usually make their way back to where they started. Like John said, there's always the public roads too, rural gravel & paved. It's not unusual for someone to come by our camp every so often asking if we'd seen or heard their dogs. Every year we have 1 or more worn out dogs come to hang around our camp. We check their collar & make a phone call to the owner. Like John said...if they don't come get them before the next day's over, the dog gets a ride down the road & turned loose by one of the local dog runner's land. Dogs aren't allowed any time the season is open. Dogs are allowed during the 1st regular gun season (11/19 - 12/1) and after the 8th day of the 2nd gun season (12/24 - 1/18). They are not allowed during archery and primitive weapons season. To most here that are used to a November rut that wouldn't sound too bad...but the peak rut period where I hunt in MS cranks up right at Christmas. The best opportunty to kill rutting bucks is usually from ~12/26 through 1/6. Needless to say, it doesn't sit well when dogs get on us messing up the chase phase of the rut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Here we have bear dogs. They will chase a bear onto private property because bears cant read! Ive had it happen and it's no big deal. They either keep right on going thru or the bear trees and the hunters asked permission to retreive/shoot the bear. After they leave things settle back down. IF a dog gets onto a deer, I do know of a few that were shot on the spot by the owner..they got broke of that habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrown Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 I'm in the same boat, I have 160 acres. I find if I lessin the pressure during the harder times, aka, muzzle loader and rifle season, sometime I'll get good bucks that'll hide out on me. I also hammer the does during early bow season, and leave them alone as season passes. Obviously farther into season, more does = greater chance to have a big buck cruising your property. I don't shoot any young bucks, so what if the neighbor shoots em, I did my part and gave em a chance, they can't shoot all the young bucks I pass up!!! As for the dogs go, I'm pretty sure if you talked to the local gamewarden with the landowner you might have more luck in getting enforcement on the dog situation, but I'm thinking you may have already taken that approach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackranny Posted August 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 As far as talking w/warden and landowner - doesn't do ANY good. If dogs are dropped on property where is is permissible - they can run ANYWHERE. Nothing I can legally do if the "stray" onto my property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC8point Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Yeah I can understand how mad that must make you. I had two dogs run deer by my stand one time and where i hunt you can't use dogs but one county over you can, it was really ashame that those two dogs died of lead posioning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntnfish Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Yeah I can understand how mad that must make you. I had two dogs run deer by my stand one time and where i hunt you can't use dogs but one county over you can, it was really ashame that those two dogs died of lead posioning Yeah, the lease I hunt on have had a few dogs die of lead poisoning also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcot2773 Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 be careful with that. in counties where it is legal to run dogs you will get a worse punishment for shooting the dog than you will poaching a deer out of season. On a side note i have had dogs show up from miles away.... walkers will nip and a bucks heels and all the buck will do is run in a straight line 2 counties over if he needs to, to escape a dog. and most states laws require that dogs be under handler control at all time even if it be just yelling and getting them to come back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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