buckee Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Good artical and yes, I read it all ...LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KSNimrod Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus [ QUOTE ] James Forbes, the pastor of Riverside Church in New York City, concludes from that text that, “Nobody gets to heaven without a letter of reference from the poor!” [/ QUOTE ] This is not good Theology assuming this is contextually accurate. The only letter of reference needed for salvation is that of Jesus Christ Himself. Granted we will be rewarded based on our life and what we've done with God's investment in us, but that is a great deal different than salvation itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus [ QUOTE ] This is not good Theology assuming this is contextually accurate. The only letter of reference needed for salvation is that of Jesus Christ Himself. Granted we will be rewarded based on our life and what we've done with God's investment in us, but that is a great deal different than salvation itself. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think it was meant as a statement of theology, but more of an analogy based on Jesus statement "Whatever you have done to the least of these, you have done unto me".and there are other references to this in feeding the hungry, lifting up the down-trodden clothing the naked and visiting the sick. Many will say "Lord, Lord" and Jesus will say " Depart from me" It's a pretty good analogy based on theology, in my opinion. but yes, it will be the Lord who speaks on their behalf. He won't need any witnesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus was he a republican or a democrat? probaly not a liberal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus [ QUOTE ] was he a republican or a democrat? probaly not a liberal [/ QUOTE ] Definately not a Liberal, but the Liberals would like to think he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus There are way too many holes in this little peiece of.......fiction. The first is the obvious theolical mistake that someone must somehow get approval from the poor to get into heaven. This is not only inacurate, but heretical. To say that the blood of Christ is not enough is very irrisponsible. 2. Love your Enemies has nothing to do with laying down and letting them walk all overy you. If he had used the statement "Turn the other cheek" then that would at least have some accuracy. I guess his editors don't know that story. 3. Christ does not cmmand us to see the spointer in our adversary's eye. He commands us to first see the beem in our eye and then the splinter in our brothers eye When he is talking about this he is talking about discipline within the church, not war with other nations. In case you didn't know, Muslems are not Christians. There for this does not apply. The Muslem religion, like it or not, teaches to kill Christians. They teach that Christ was not the Son of God. This, by definition, makes them "anti Christ" They are not our brothers. 4. Befor Jesus went to the garden to pray he told Peter to buy a sword. Why do you think he did that? If he just wanted Peter to defend himself, wouldn't he have told him to buy a shield or maybe some armor. In doing this, Christ told Peter that he would have to fight. Would Christ tell a person to sin? If not, then we must conclude that fighting for ones cause is just, and ethics does not come into play. 5. Most religious leaders in the world don't even believe the bible is true. Why should anyone who does have any respect for their theology. Where do they base thier beliefs if they bibly isn't real? 6. Last time I read in it in the Bible, Homosexuality and abortions are abominations in the sight of God. When He changes His mind I'm sure the bible will reflect that. Why would I vote for someone who condones and accepts these things. 7. In the story of Lazeras and the rich man. (Which I believe was true) Lazeras probibly died of disintary or malnutrition. My guess is that today he's not complaining much. What profit a man to gain a fortue and loose his soul? 8. The bible also says to help the widows, the orphans and the poor. What does this guy think we are doing over there? How many women have been spared being raped and murdered by Sadam's sons and guards. How many children have fathers today because Sadam is behind bars. 9. How a Christian "do to the least of these" has nothing to do with politics. I gave more to the church last year then I payed in taxes. Do I think I should be taxed so that some freak can be payed for the great art peice "Piss Christ" NO! But I do think that we should help the helpless. 10. The Catholic Church- They should keep thier mouths shut untill they clean up all the corruption and get rid of all the pediphile rapist. They have no room to talk about anyone. 11. We are the only "Christian" nation left in the world and that's fading fast. If they don't like us claiming to have God on our side. Then so be it. This guy is at best ignorant, at worst a heritic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus . The Catholic Church- They should keep thier mouths shut untill they clean up all the corruption and get rid of all the pediphile rapist. They have no room to talk about anyone. -------------------------------------------------------------------- pretty much hit the nail on the head there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus God isn't a Republican or Democrat and I would really like to get his opinion on how he is being used for political gain. History has shown that politics and religion don't mix, think of how many people have died at the hands of political regimes in the "name of God" because they believed they were superior and then persecuted the non-believers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus [ QUOTE ] God isn't a Republican or Democrat and I would really like to get his opinion on how he is being used for political gain. History has shown that politics and religion don't mix, think of how many people have died at the hands of political regimes in the "name of God" because they believed they were superior and then persecuted the non-believers. [/ QUOTE ] Typical anti-Christian response to having God involved in politics slugger and very Liberal too, I might add. When we leave God (big "G" ... and there is only one) out of the political arena, we will become a Godless nation. The Political regimes you speak of from the past, did terrible things that were and still are totally inconsistent with God's word. That is why they fell. They had the appearance of Godliness, but abandoned the Grace afforded them through Jesus Christ and made their "LAW" their God. The inquisition was totally inconsistent with God's word A nation lead by unGodly men, will surely fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] God isn't a Republican or Democrat and I would really like to get his opinion on how he is being used for political gain. History has shown that politics and religion don't mix, think of how many people have died at the hands of political regimes in the "name of God" because they believed they were superior and then persecuted the non-believers. [/ QUOTE ] Typical anti-Christian response to having God involved in politics slugger and very Liberal too, I might add. When we leave God (big "G" ... and there is only one) out of the political arena, we will become a Godless nation. The Political regimes you speak of from the past, did terrible things that were and still are totally inconsistent with God's word. That is why they fell. They had the appearance of Godliness, but abandoned the Grace afforded them through Jesus Christ and made their "LAW" their God. The inquisition was totally inconsistent with God's word A nation lead by unGodly men, will surely fall. [/ QUOTE ] Um no..... You are just speaking for the ultra religious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus [ QUOTE ] Um no..... You are just speaking for the ultra religious. [/ QUOTE ] Please define "ULTRA RELIGIOUS" for me, because I'm not too sure what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus This is what I mean, you call slugs post a "non believer" and pretty liberal, not so any man can be godly love god and invite god into his life, when goes about ruling he should look to his morals and yes his religion, BUT that dosnt mean as you Rule and Politic you do so in the name of GOD, i think thats rightious and using the lords name in vain for your own self-good. I think when you see god being used in politics it is for gain not Love. ultra religious might not be the right word, but that is a typical persicution any non-evangilist faces regardless of there relationship with god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus No, I didn't call slugger a Non-believer, I called what he said a Typical anti-Christian response. And don't confuse a president (who happens to be a Christian) going to war for a good cause, with going to war in God's name, just because he is a Christian. I'd also like to add, that going to war without God on your side, will mean defeat. Just look at the big wars in history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus [ QUOTE ] This is what I mean, you call slugs post a "non believer" and pretty liberal, not so any man can be godly love god and invite god into his life, when goes about ruling he should look to his morals and yes his religion, BUT that dosnt mean as you Rule and Politic you do so in the name of GOD, i think thats rightious and using the lords name in vain for your own self-good. I think when you see god being used in politics it is for gain not Love. ultra religious might not be the right word, but that is a typical persicution any non-evangilist faces regardless of there relationship with god. [/ QUOTE ] I don't want to seem stupid here carbon, but I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Can you re-word that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus Carbon I agree with you if God is "used" for political gain etc...however this nation was founded as a Christian nation by God fearing men who taught the 10 commandment in our schools and even held prayer meetings and yea even worship service in the highest office of this nation. It has been in the last 40 years or so that the the liberal anti God /religion people have taken out soo much of what our forefathers faught to establish. And we sat by and let it happen!!..... and then...911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus My .02 worth: Liberal view of God - "God will take care of everything for me." Conservative view of God - "I'm going to ask God to guide my steps, but it will only work if I'm willing to move my own feet." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus Pardon my comments here Buckee, but by calling my statement anti-Christian, IMO you are calling me anti-Christian, and that is just not so and I would hope would know that by now. My comments about Christianity are not meant to be against Christianity, my comments are against the crowd who believes that anyone who does not believe exactly as they do somehow want to eradicate Christianity from the earth. Salvation lies within Jesus Christ, it does not lie within the televangelist or, shall I say, any preacher who guilts you into giving more money than you make to a church you have never been to so you can feed his lavish lifestyle. I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ but do not believe the teachings of man whether or not they are supposedly "ordained from above". We will all have to answer to Christ one day for some reason or anotherm whether it be for racism, lying, believing that a homosexual is born that way or whether he is an abomination, whether or not we drank a beer a day or whether we stayed sober our whole lives. Everyone has their own idea's and interpretations as to what life a Christian is supposed to lead when all that really matters is Jesus Christ. I do not believe in organized religion because, lets face it, if Christians got along and believed the same things, there wouldn't be hundreds of denominations out there.. Baptist, Freewill Baptist, Baptist USA, Southern Baptist, Church of God, Church of God of Prophecy, Methodist, Southern Methodist etc. etc. etc. If all Christians believed the same things we wouldn't have so many denominations because at some point in time, one group broke off from another group because they didn't like what the other was preaching. That is why I don't go to church anymore and why I have such a bad taste in my mouth regarding religion. The same people who preach love and unity can't even get along with themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus [ QUOTE ] IMO you are calling me anti-Christian, [/ QUOTE ] No slugger, I said , what you said was a typical anti-Christian . I should have included non-Christian responce too. Just because you said something that some non-Christian and anti-Christian group quote as their gospel, doesn't mean your not saved by the same Grace I am and doesn't mean your not a Christian. Only you and the Lord know the answer to that. You also have some other good points in your above post about different denominations, but I don't agree with everything you say, and I'll leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] God isn't a Republican or Democrat and I would really like to get his opinion on how he is being used for political gain. History has shown that politics and religion don't mix, think of how many people have died at the hands of political regimes in the "name of God" because they believed they were superior and then persecuted the non-believers. [/ QUOTE ]My comments about Christianity are not meant to be against Christianity, my comments are against the crowd who believes that anyone who does not believe exactly as they do somehow want to eradicate Christianity from the earth. [/ QUOTE ] Geesh ..it sounded to me like you were talking about bush ...LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus While I do consider myself a Christian and I know Jesus is my saviour I do also realize that the bible is a book inspired by God written by man and interpretted many times by many over a very long period of time to meet mans needs. Take it however you want religion has been used many times by governments or leaders to adopt laws going way back to very early mankind. By the way sluggo, can relate with what you say about the denominations and agree with you too on that part ofyour post. We currently do not go to a building for church, but still are Christians. It is where your heart and mind is that matters, not your physical body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus [ QUOTE ] Carbon I agree with you if God is "used" for political gain etc...however this nation was founded as a Christian nation by God fearing men who taught the 10 commandment in our schools and even held prayer meetings and yea even worship service in the highest office of this nation. It has been in the last 40 years or so that the the liberal anti God /religion people have taken out soo much of what our forefathers faught to establish. And we sat by and let it happen!!..... and then...911 [/ QUOTE ] pretty much.As william said you dont have to pay a church to be a christian, just like you dont have to bust everyones butts to be a christian. Though some would have you think that is false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KSNimrod Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus Fellas I understand your gripe about denominational differences and politics involving Christians, but I think you may be making a mistake in not belonging to a local church. Scripture tells us not to forsake meeting together. When we surround ourselves with other brothers and sisters we are stronger and smarter. Don't sell yourself short in your walk with Jesus just because some congregation somewhere let you down. Don't knock the body that Christ calls His bride. It's like someone calling your wife ugly. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus Well I would like to join a church up here in Mass but it seems like everywhere we go up here they support Gays Look I agree that you do not have to go to church to be a Christian. There are many folks that call themselves Christians that go to church every Sunday, every special the Church has and they are worse than some of the Christians that do not go to church. Mistake...tell me mistake some of us are making. I am curious. How do you know that you are practicing the right religion at your church. There are so many denominations out there who knows which one is the correct one. There are so many interpratations of the bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus [ QUOTE ] There are way too many holes in this little peiece of.......fiction. The first is the obvious theolical mistake that someone must somehow get approval from the poor to get into heaven. This is not only inacurate, but heretical. To say that the blood of Christ is not enough is very irrisponsible. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think he was actually being literal when he made that statement, of course, preachers have a way of instilling their own requirements for getting into heaven, my childhood preacher actually said that you must be saved in order to be healed, which goes against the teachings of Christ, his exact words were "Why should God heal you if you haven't given your life to him?" Very optimistic words for the downtrodden and afflicted. [ QUOTE ] 2. Love your Enemies has nothing to do with laying down and letting them walk all overy you. [/ QUOTE ] I do believe he said that very thing in the article. [ QUOTE ] In case you didn't know, Muslems are not Christians. There for this does not apply. The Muslem religion, like it or not, teaches to kill Christians. They teach that Christ was not the Son of God. This, by definition, makes them "anti Christ" They are not our brothers. [/ QUOTE ] I fail to see how this was directed at Muslims, just because the most radical of them want to rule the world and want Christians dead, does that mean we are supposed to hate them. Christians are supposed to be better than that. [ QUOTE ] 4. Befor Jesus went to the garden to pray he told Peter to buy a sword. Why do you think he did that? If he just wanted Peter to defend himself, wouldn't he have told him to buy a shield or maybe some armor. In doing this, Christ told Peter that he would have to fight. Would Christ tell a person to sin? If not, then we must conclude that fighting for ones cause is just, and ethics does not come into play. [/ QUOTE ] Please enlighten me as to what bible and what passage you got that from, cause that's the first I have heard of that one. One question, if Jesus commanded Peter to get a sword and that statement would suggest to Peter that he would have to fight, then why did Christ rebuke Peter when he used his sword and cut off the servants ear. Here. lets start with Matthew 26:52 - "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword." The Gospel according to Mark only remarks that a servants ear was cut off. Luke 22:49-51 - When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him. John 18:10-11 - Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, cutting off his right ear. Jesus commanded Peter, "Put you sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?" Now, I am no theologian, but those are pretty pacifistic words coming from someone who supposedly told Peter to go buy a sword suggesting he would have to fight soon. [ QUOTE ] and abortions are abominations in the sight of God. [/ QUOTE ] Let me know where that one is also. [ QUOTE ] 7. In the story of Lazeras and the rich man. (Which I believe was true) Lazeras probibly died of disintary or malnutrition. My guess is that today he's not complaining much. What profit a man to gain a fortue and loose his soul? [/ QUOTE ] Parables are meant to convey a point or message. If this is taken literally, then are we to believe that all the poor people are in heaven and the rich one's are in ****. The moral of the story however is to show how people will not believe that Jesus was the messiah even after he had risen from the dead. Luke 16:31- He said to him, "If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." [ QUOTE ] 8. The bible also says to help the widows, the orphans and the poor. What does this guy think we are doing over there? How many women have been spared being raped and murdered by Sadam's sons and guards. How many children have fathers today because Sadam is behind bars. [/ QUOTE ] This whole article said nothing about the War in Iraq if I remember correctly, I do believe he is referring to helping our fellow Americans, but in believing in a doctrine of helping our fellow man in this country you risk being labeled a communist. That's our tax money being used in Iraq isn't it, so helping them out would be considered an act of "wealth redistribution" in theory would it not. [ QUOTE ] 9. How a Christian "do to the least of these" has nothing to do with politics. I gave more to the church last year then I payed in taxes. [/ QUOTE ] Just a thought, I just wonder how much of the money you gave to the church went to helping the helpless. Maybe a good percentage, I don't know if you go to a big church or not, but unfortunately I feel that the Pastor's and Boards of large churches get enticed by all that money coming in and decide that a new Cadillac would look better than giving $40,000.00 to an outreach program or starting one up themselves. [ QUOTE ] 10. The Catholic Church- They should keep thier mouths shut untill they clean up all the corruption and get rid of all the pediphile rapist. They have no room to talk about anyone. [/ QUOTE ] Now isn't that lumping an entire group of believers into the actions of a minority of the church, there are millions of Catholics and probably tens of thousands of Catholic clergy, don't attack the entire group because of the indiscretions of a minority that by all accounts are getting the punishment they deserve. [ QUOTE ] 11. We are the only "Christian" nation left in the world and that's fading fast. If they don't like us claiming to have God on our side. Then so be it. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, Ethiopia is a Christian nation, as well as the majority of countries in the world, they just don't mix it with politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KSNimrod Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: Politics of Jesus [ QUOTE ] Look I agree that you do not have to go to church to be a Christian. There are many folks that call themselves Christians that go to church every Sunday, every special the Church has and they are worse than some of the Christians that do not go to church. Mistake...tell me mistake some of us are making. I am curious. How do you know that you are practicing the right religion at your church. There are so many denominations out there who knows which one is the correct one. There are so many interpratations of the bible. [/ QUOTE ] I agree that there are those in the church that are terrible examples of how a Christian should live and conduct themselves. I don't belive that releases me from my obligation to belong to a body though. We are called to, "...spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another and all the more as you see the Day approaching." according to Hebrews 10 It's important to note that the author said this in response to the idea that going to temple and obeying the Mosaic law was no longer necessary due to the sacrifice and High Priesthood of Jesus. In regards to which church or denomination is practicing the "right" religion I would say that many of them are. There are some basic tenets of the faith that can be agreed upon as orthodoxy by most believers: The Divinity of Christ as Lord and Savior, the Trinity, etc. But what seems to divide many denominations are usually issues of worship style and ritual practice rather than any issue of real substance. You seem to be a man of substance and conviction. Please don't short your local church by not giving of yourelf. As a body we could use many like you. Each individual is capable and gifted at holding a different piece of ground against our enemy. When isolated from the flock we become easier prey for one who has been described as a roaring lion looking for whom he may devour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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