Politics of Jesus

[wtnhunt]

Re: Politics of Jesus

Have seen too many folks in every church we have been to do things I would never do, and they are there every weekend with their noses up in the air like they better than anyone else. I just dont like the atmosphere.

You know it is bad when have doctors and others well to do who go to several of the local churches and are in there every time the doors are open and even when the doors are closed, after screwing around on their wives or cheating people out of money. And those very same people are way up in the church because of their contributions.

Money will not buy your way.

Church is a frame of mind not a building. You can give without giving money to a church and you can worship right in your own home or even in a field.

[Guest KSNimrod]

Re: Politics of Jesus

Back when I was drinking I used to go to bars. They were full of hypocrites, jerks, thieves etc. I kept going back because there was something I wanted there. Same goes with a lot of sporting events. Why should I stop doing something that's good for me according to scripture because there are some idiots there? I agree that church is not a building, but it is beyond a frame of mind. Church is a body of people united in their pursuit of God. Now worship, that's a frame of mind. That can be done at home, in the field and especially in the treestand.

We started a church here targeted at baby boomers and their kids. It was to be a church with a difference. We targeted people who have tried it all, seen it all and more often than not, lost it all. We use straight ahead rock and roll for our worship music and use scenes out of current movies to illustrate spiritual truth much like Jesus used parables. We've been given the nick-name of the "rehab church" because so many of us come from addiction backgrounds. It's a great place. Funny thing is though, that now we have to be on our guard against having an attitude towards somebody who walks in with a coat and tie on and is rich. You can check it out at www.crossroads-bic.org if you're interested.

[horst]

Re: Politics of Jesus

Seems like I had this discussion in here once this week already LOL.Heres a quote from that one.

[ QUOTE ]

"Wherever two are gathered in My name, I am there."

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

We are called to, "...spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another and all the more as you see the Day approaching." according to Hebrews 10

[/ QUOTE ]

What Im getting outta this has nothing to do with church, people can gather just about anywhere and do the same thing thats done in church.You could have half a dozen people in my living room discussing the bible and it would fit the bill for this.Even reading the rest of your post really tell me nothing except this was one mans response to what was happening at the time.Your going to have a very hard time convincing me someone who chooses not to attend church every sunday is worse off than the ones that go because it builds up thier image in the community, or the ones that think by spreading a little cash around once a week their making up for the sins theyve commited the rest of the week.Adding in all the different religions, all the religous scandals commited by the people who are supposed to be preaching Gods words, how can anyone sit there and tell others what theyre doing isnt the right way when theres so many ways you could go with religion?Im really not trying to start an argument here, i really just dont understand how people can sit there and criticize someone elses lifestyle based on what they do one day a week and tell them theyre wrong

[buckee]

Re: Politics of Jesus

That looks like a great looking Church group your involved with KSNimrod.

It's true that many main-stream churches today are stepping away from sound doctrine and delving into the new-age thinking. It's not surprising though since Jesus warned us that this would happen in the end times. It's called the apostasy of the church in the bible.

Your going to find hypocrites in any church you go to. Church, along with the community standing it can give some, attracts some folks who feel the church is a good hiding place for what they really are and what they really do in private. That will never change.

Also, there is the fact that everyone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior is each at a different point in their walk of faith, and shouldn't be judged, but instead encouraged.

It's hard sometimes, to get our eyes off of man, and keep our eyes on the Lord.

The good and bad of it all, is that you won't be required to answer for those Other people when you stand before your Lord and Saviour someday. It will be just you and him and you won't have a thing to say, because he will know it all.

We live in some very difficult times in this day and age, especially within the church.

Christians aren't perfect, that's for sure, but there are a lot of things creeping into the churches today that are not of God and those folks hiding behind the vail of Church and Christianity, will have to answer before the Lord someday.

[horst]

Re: Politics of Jesus

[ QUOTE ]

Also, there is the fact that everyone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior is each at a different point in their walk of faith, and shouldn't be judged, but instead encouraged

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you Buckee, that answered my question without seeming judgemental,

[johnf]

Re: Politics of Jesus

[ QUOTE ]

In case you didn't know, Muslems are not Christians. There for this does not apply. The Muslem religion, like it or not, teaches to kill Christians. They teach that Christ was not the Son of God. This, by definition, makes them "anti Christ" They are not our brothers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fail to see how this was directed at Muslims, just because the most radical of them want to rule the world and want Christians dead, does that mean we are supposed to hate them. Christians are supposed to be better than that.

[ QUOTE ]

War, of course, is also a deeply theological matter. The near unanimous opinion of religious leaders worldwide that the Iraq war failed to fit “just war” criteria is an issue for many Christians, especially as the warnings from religious leaders have proved prophetically and tragically accurate. The “plagues of war,” as the pope has referred to the continuing problems in Iraq, are in part a consequence of a “Christian president” simply not listening to the counsel of religious leaders who tried to speak to the White House. What has happened to the “consistent ethic of life,” suggested by Catholic social teaching, which speaks against abortion, capital punishment, poverty, war, and a range of human rights abuses too often selectively respected by pro-life advocates?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this pretty much speeks for it's self. He specifically mentions Iraq therefor muslems.

[ QUOTE ]

4. Befor Jesus went to the garden to pray he told Peter to buy a sword. Why do you think he did that? If he just wanted Peter to defend himself, wouldn't he have told him to buy a shield or maybe some armor. In doing this, Christ told Peter that he would have to fight. Would Christ tell a person to sin? If not, then we must conclude that fighting for ones cause is just, and ethics does not come into play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please enlighten me as to what bible and what passage you got that from, cause that's the first I have heard of that one. One question, if Jesus commanded Peter to get a sword and that statement would suggest to Peter that he would have to fight, then why did Christ rebuke Peter when he used his sword and cut off the servants ear. Here. lets start with Matthew 26:52 - "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword." The Gospel according to Mark only remarks that a servants ear was cut off. Luke 22:49-51 - When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him. John 18:10-11 - Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, cutting off his right ear. Jesus commanded Peter, "Put you sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?" Now, I am no theologian, but those are pretty pacifistic words coming from someone who supposedly told Peter to go buy a sword suggesting he would have to fight soon.

But now, he that hath a purse, let himtake it, and likewise his script: and he that hath no sword, Let him sell his garment, and buy one Luke 22: 36

[ QUOTE ]

and abortions are abominations in the sight of God.

[/ QUOTE ] Let me know where that one is also.

I know the story, it's old testimant, I'll have to get back with you on this one, AND I WILL .

[ QUOTE ]

7. In the story of Lazeras and the rich man. (Which I believe was true) Lazeras probibly died of disintary or malnutrition. My guess is that today he's not complaining much. What profit a man to gain a fortue and loose his soul?

[/ QUOTE ]

Parables are meant to convey a point or message. If this is taken literally, then are we to believe that all the poor people are in heaven and the rich one's are in ****. The moral of the story however is to show how people will not believe that Jesus was the messiah even after he had risen from the dead. Luke 16:31- He said to him, "If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."

If you've studied the scriptures much you'll notice Jesus told a lot of parables. When they were told Jesus explained them to the deciples. The story of Lazeras was not a parible. It was a story that was told as truth much like the feeding of the 5,000.

[ QUOTE ]

8. The bible also says to help the widows, the orphans and the poor. What does this guy think we are doing over there? How many women have been spared being raped and murdered by Sadam's sons and guards. How many children have fathers today because Sadam is behind bars.

[/ QUOTE ]

This whole article said nothing about the War in Iraq if I remember correctly, I do believe he is referring to helping our fellow Americans, but in believing in a doctrine of helping our fellow man in this country you risk being labeled a communist. That's our tax money being used in Iraq isn't it, so helping them out would be considered an act of "wealth redistribution" in theory would it not.

It does specifically mention Iraq.

[ QUOTE ]

9. How a Christian "do to the least of these" has nothing to do with politics. I gave more to the church last year then I payed in taxes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a thought, I just wonder how much of the money you gave to the church went to helping the helpless. Maybe a good percentage, I don't know if you go to a big church or not, but unfortunately I feel that the Pastor's and Boards of large churches get enticed by all that money coming in and decide that a new Cadillac would look better than giving $40,000.00 to an outreach program or starting one up themselves.

Our church runs about 650 in Sunday School and around 1000 in church. I can't remember what the preacher makes, but he's been there for 27 years and it's not a lot more than me. He drives a jeep wrangler, his wife drives a 15 year old van. I've been to thier house and there's no Cadi' in the garage. Our church board does not get paid. Most of the churches funds go for missions and outreach.

[ QUOTE ]

10. The Catholic Church- They should keep thier mouths shut untill they clean up all the corruption and get rid of all the pediphile rapist. They have no room to talk about anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now isn't that lumping an entire group of believers into the actions of a minority of the church, there are millions of Catholics and probably tens of thousands of Catholic clergy, don't attack the entire group because of the indiscretions of a minority that by all accounts are getting the punishment they deserve.

I did mean the priest, not the perish. The catholic church is different IMO than most churches. Most churches are the people that go there. To me the Catholic church, sence they do have thier own recognized country (Vadican City), is the clergy that runs it

[ QUOTE ]

11. We are the only "Christian" nation left in the world and that's fading fast. If they don't like us claiming to have God on our side. Then so be it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, Ethiopia is a Christian nation, as well as the majority of countries in the world, they just don't mix it with politics.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think someone or a country is Christian just because they claim Christianity. If they don't attempt to fight the causes of Christ then they are only Christain in name. That's like saying Barbara Striesan (sp?) is Jewsh. She may have the big nose, last name and bloodline. But in the most important use of the word, she is no more Jewish than me.

[Guest KSNimrod]

Re: Politics of Jesus

[ QUOTE ]

What Im getting outta this has nothing to do with church, people can gather just about anywhere and do the same thing thats done in church.You could have half a dozen people in my living room discussing the bible and it would fit the bill for this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. There doesn't need to be a steeple and pews for a group of believers to meet. That said, a majority of the guys I know who espouse that possibility don't actually get it done. Sometimes formalizing the meeting time or place makes us more accountable.

[ QUOTE ]

Your going to have a very hard time convincing me someone who chooses not to attend church every sunday is worse off than the ones that go because it builds up thier image in the community, or the ones that think by spreading a little cash around once a week their making up for the sins theyve commited the rest of the week.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have a hard time convincing you of that because it's NOT TRUE. People have tried to hide their sin behind religion for many years now. According to the scriptures THEY are worse off than the man who is honest enough to say, "That's not for me." and stays away.

[ QUOTE ]

Adding in all the different religions, all the religous scandals commited by the people who are supposed to be preaching Gods words, how can anyone sit there and tell others what theyre doing isnt the right way when theres so many ways you could go with religion?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because people screw things up doesn't mean that Jesus wasn't telling the truth. I know there will be many who use the cloak of "religion" to do terrible things. I know there will be those who use religious hypocrites as their reason for not believing. I'll never get it all right, just as many wise people before me (including the apostle Paul) have acknowledged, but I am called just as they were to press on toward the goal. If I focus on Jesus he will direct my path.

[Guest Andrea]

Re: Politics of Jesus

Slugshooter... are you saying that as Christians we should "turn the other cheek" to people like those murderous Iraqis? I'm sorry, but not even Jesus would expect me to sit idly by and allow what they do to happen. They are beheading innocent "weaponless" civilians. And children too. And we are to just pray for and love them? I don't think so. I remember somewhere in the Bible it said that Jesus helps those who help themselves. And abortion is an abomination.. because it is murder and that is a SIN. There comes a time when Christians as a whole have to stand up for their beliefs. And if we allow the muslims to have their way...we would all be worshiping "allah" not Jesus Christ. (Who, by the way, is the ONLY way into heaven. )Read John 3:16. No mention of a reference letter there!

[johnf]

Re: Politics of Jesus

[ QUOTE ]

Slugshooter... are you saying that as Christians we should "turn the other cheek" to people like those murderous Iraqis? I'm sorry, but not even Jesus would expect me to sit idly by and allow what they do to happen. They are beheading innocent "weaponless" civilians. And children too. And we are to just pray for and love them? I don't think so. I remember somewhere in the Bible it said that Jesus helps those who help themselves. And abortion is an abomination.. because it is murder and that is a SIN. There comes a time when Christians as a whole have to stand up for their beliefs. And if we allow the muslims to have their way...we would all be worshiping "allah" not Jesus Christ. (Who, by the way, is the ONLY way into heaven. )Read John 3:16. No mention of a reference letter there!

[/ QUOTE ]

You go girl!

Preach on sister!

Amen!

Can I get a witness buckee?

buckee says ..AMEN

[wtnhunt]

Re: Politics of Jesus

[ QUOTE ]

Christians aren't perfect, that's for sure, but there are a lot of things creeping into the churches today that are not of God and those folks hiding behind the vail of Church and Christianity, will have to answer before the Lord someday.

[/ QUOTE ]

There sure are Steve. Hipocrasy and deception are very common in churches around here and it is not anything new.

At risk of sounding a bit redundant I still feel you can worship and know God without going and sitting in a building full of people, and have always been told "church" can be held by 2 or more people anywhere anytime.