tooth analysis aging

[hoosierhunter]

Does anyone else use a lab to have their deer aged? It's very interesting how exact they are once a deer is 3.5 or older. In fact they are 100% accurate on known aged whitetails of that age or older.

It makes for some interesting discussions between buddies! It also shows you how tough it is to age a deer over 4.5 years old.

[Shoobee]

The DFG always wants us to mail-in an incisor from a buck.

For me, I usually estimate that a spike or tiny fork is in his first year, practically a fawn.

And a small forkie is in his second year.

A big forkie or a 3x3 would b ein his third year, can't really tell since it partly depends on genetics of the rack as well.

And a 4x4 would therefore usually be in his 4th year.

Ergo antler points tells the ages, as the old saying goes.

[wtnhunt]

The DFG always wants us to mail-in an incisor from a buck.

For me, I usually estimate that a spike or tiny fork is in his first year, practically a fawn.

And a small forkie is in his second year.

A big forkie or a 3x3 would b ein his third year, can't really tell since it partly depends on genetics of the rack as well.

And a 4x4 would therefore usually be in his 4th year.

Ergo antler points tells the ages, as the old saying goes.

Cannot age a deer based on antlers or on the number of points.

Never sent any teeth off Pat. I have looked at several and compared to a print out I pulled off a teeth aging chart online.

[redkneck]

We got a set of jaw bones from QDMA. Very easy to follow, maybe not as accurate as sending them in, but close I bet.

[535hunter]

Sent in jaw bone with all the teeth on it. I'm honestly not sure why they wanted it but I don't see why not to.

[Ethan Givan]

My taxidermist ages the bucks we take him by looking at the jawbone. I assume he is fairly accurate, he has been doing it for 20 plus years.

[hoosierhunter]

You guys would be surprised how tooth wear compares to region, diet etc and it greatly affects the results. I think we will see Qdma switch what they recommend in the next two years.

[Ravin R10 man]

Yup aging by pts dont work, I shot 2.5 160 class 10 pt..my Tax. could have been wrong..and it was 3.5 Like you say what they eat determines wear.

[Rhino]

You're certainly right about a lab's superior accuracy on age vs. the tooth wear method, mainly on mature bucks. The only time one of mine was sent to a lab was my B&C buck...aged at 6.5.

For this state's DMAP purposes it's simply quicker, easier, and cheaper for the state's biologist to use the jawbone method even though tooth wear is certainly not nearly as accurate as a lab's results, particularly for the older age classes. Bottom line for our state's DMAP program is...they are more concerned about where the harvest falls by age class in 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, and 4.5 or older bucks...and the cost of determining those numbers. Their numbers put all bucks in the 4.5 and older classes into one group since they are considered mature at that age.

There's certainly a difference between what some hunters refer to as mature bucks and fully mature bucks. Fully mature buck hunters are trying to kill bucks that are very close to or at their max antler potential so those hunters want to pass all 4.5 year old bucks strictly hunting for the 5.5 & older bucks. I know a few hunters like that. One has a B&C NT bowkill buck on the wall (gross 227, net 222 7/8) that aged at 5.5 by the lab. If you're trying to manage a sizable piece of property for fully mature bucks you should consider sending jawbones to the lab.

[dbHunterNY]

no i don't because i don't get enough opportunity to hunt old enough deer. cementum analysis from a lab is definitely the way to go to know exact age. deer are like people, some look bigger and older than others despite their age. lab work is more exact.

i'm with you that it's tough to judge a deers teeth/jaw from even 3.5 up. it's right that deer in different regions will have different wear. 1.5 to 2.5 their changing teeth so that's easy... beyhond that it's too subjective. i started looking into it and i learned that it takes seeing a lot of known age jaw bones to judge unknown deer accurately. it has been hit and miss. sometimes i'm dead on and other days it seems like i'm having a bad guessing day.

[dbHunterNY]

....similar to william's response to shoobee, there's some ideas of how to age bucks, all based on some of what's been seen. however, some methods are just plain better and take into account animals with atypical characteristics. Pat this past season Midwestwhitetail did a whole online webisode on why lab results can be surprising and Bill Winke and his crew are pretty darn good at aging deer.

[abrown]

That's pretty funny that you say that, they are 100% on KNOWN aged deer, how about deer that's not known? Doesn't do any good to age deer you already know the age to! The reason I say this is, because while in school, I took a tooth aging class, and ended up aging ALOT of deer that came through the check station I was at. I was told, they sent two teeth off the same deer to the lab, but labeled them different to have them aged, came back different. So, that's how much I put into that.

[hoosierhunter]

tooth analysis aging

Abrown

The known aged deer are pen raised and done to establish accuracy testing. Without that there is no real reason to use this method as opposed to tooth wear.

The cross sections you did as a study for class could be wrong on younger deer from either the lab and/or the class.. The accuracy is based on older age structure deer. I think they were about 85% accurate overall.

[abrown]

I know why they establish the accuracy testing, I was just giving you a hard time. We didn't do cross section aging in the class, it was based off of tooth wear. In my wildlife management class my professor commented that our wildlife dep, and school sent the teeth off to a lab, like I said earlier. That is why we where doing it off of tooth wear. I also find it funny that EVERYONE seems to know how to age deer on the hoof, or have a good estimate. I'm not saying people don't know what their saying, but if that was the case, then EVERYONE would be a wildlife biologist, and there would be NO use for people who study and go to school for it.

[dbHunterNY]

I know why they establish the accuracy testing, I was just giving you a hard time. We didn't do cross section aging in the class, it was based off of tooth wear. In my wildlife management class my professor commented that our wildlife dep, and school sent the teeth off to a lab, like I said earlier. That is why we where doing it off of tooth wear. I also find it funny that EVERYONE seems to know how to age deer on the hoof, or have a good estimate. I'm not saying people don't know what their saying, but if that was the case, then EVERYONE would be a wildlife biologist, and there would be NO use for people who study and go to school for it.

i've got a ton of hours into researching this stuff, reading books, looking at others results, and listening to other people are fairly experienced. i'll tell you right now when it comes to judging jaw bones and tooth wear/build up i'm not good. i'll give you one of the answers; fawn, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5-5.5, or old. lol when it comes to judging age on the hoof i'm not good either. the answers i'll give are fawn, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5-4.5, 5.5+ years old. how biologists come up with age estimates to the year or judge various ages of "mature" deer is beyond me!

[abrown]

I'm not saying people can't age deer, it just seems like EVERYONE can now that they watch TV, and listen to biologist talk. It's good that the community is getting more and more educated on wildlife management! The more educated the better. I was working the Kansas State Fair a couple weeks ago, and there was a PETA booth, I about fell down laughing. Your in a place where the fashion statement is CAMO, and you have a booth! Where do they think wildlife and parks get their funding! Pittman Robertson, license, not to mention the biologist that go to school to do it. Guess what I was trying to say, is it's just good regardless, that more and more people are getting involved.