The Bug House Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Large percentage of Obama voters are the "me me" voters who could care less about this country and the direction we are headed or about who picks up the tab so long as they get their "freebies". Amazing how many people in this country today are on some form of gov't funded program. Can you cite please? Or perhaps thats mostly opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bug House Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 FTR: I didn't vote for President Obama last time, and I won't this time either. However, the attitiude of "anyone but him" is irresponsible and dangerous. The Federal Govt. is about 40% to big and has FAR to much influence on State Govt and Law. The States should have say over the law of their own lands. You want to live in State that decides what sort of healthcare your wife and daughter can receive?... go for it. You want to live in a State that has strict gun control?...go for it. You want to live in a State that values Liberty?.....go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoobee Posted October 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) Neither is Tennessee, but I still have an opinion. You seem to have a problem with opinions from non swing state members here. Never said they were. Not sure where that came into this. Too many handouts given whether you agree or not, some even being given to children of illegals while those picking up the bill do not even qualify as if that is in any way right or fair to American taxpayers. Examples? I watched but somehow must have missed this. Agree though factcheck should clarify comments from both. Opinions are like ... and everybody has got one. Nothing wrong with that though. The open mind is an empty mind, as someone once said. Not sure who said it first. Googled it and got a slew of irrelevant results. I think it is fair to remember that in the USA there are always going to be 312 million different opinions, and it is only by the power of democracy that a majority of them will be able to agree on a leader for the entire body politic. We elect our presidents, governors, and mayors as in a democracy, like ancient Athens. Whereas we elect our senators and representatives at the federal, state, county and city level as in a republic, like in ancient Rome. It is amusing to me when someone from Wisconsin says they cannot understand why someone voted for Obama rather than for McCain the last time. Especially after the fundamentals of our economy are so sound, and what not. Go figure. Edited October 4, 2012 by Shoobee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoobee Posted October 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) FTR: I didn't vote for President Obama last time, and I won't this time either. However, the attitiude of "anyone but him" is irresponsible and dangerous. The Federal Govt. is about 40% to big and has FAR to much influence on State Govt and Law. The States should have say over the law of their own lands. You want to live in State that decides what sort of healthcare your wife and daughter can receive?... go for it. You want to live in a State that has strict gun control?...go for it. You want to live in a State that values Liberty?.....go for it. Vermont and Arizona are beautiful states and the residents there are very lucky that their state legislatures allow them all the full rights of the 2nd Amendment, unlike every other state. In every other state besides Vermont and Arizona the wrong people have obviously been elected to the state legislatures. Since Scalia stated that the states clearly (to him it is clear at least) have the right to regulate possession and carrying of firearms, although not also ownership in their homes which Scalia defines himself as keeping AND bearing, then Vermont and Arizona should be safe for the foreseeable future from any federal intrusion into those rights. I feel so sorry for the rest of us in the other 48 states that either cannot keep and bear arms or that must pay a fee/tax to do so. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf Edited October 5, 2012 by Shoobee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoobee Posted October 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Obviously it was the altitude that caused Obama to lose so badly......:poke: Excuses, Excuses: Gore Blames Altitude For Obama Debate Performance - ABC News No, I think Obama was exhaused, tired, and stressed. Probably annoyed at some of Romney's fake facts too. The fact checking has now begun in earnest. Obama needs to rest up more before the next one. He may have been a bit overconfident going into this one. Overconfidence normally always goes before a fall. Romney demonstrated for the first time that he can talk the talk. Nobody knows yet about walking the walk. He just might turn out to be another Carter or G.H.W.Bush himself. That's why it will take 312 million people paying attention and voting in order for democracy to solve this problem of whom to trust for the next 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Obama started the debate with his announcement of his anniversary, appeared to me he did not want to be there and even democratic supporters are baffled as to why he did not "show up" for the debate. He seemed to be relieved once the debate was over and smiled again. Obama is a decent speaker with a script and teleprompter, he has not been challenged like Romney challenged him and he clearly faultered. Obama has walked out on questions he did not like during press conferences and he could not walk away from the debate when it started not going his way and that was why his demeanor was what it was. Romney could gain ground with the undecided voters, according to Brian Williams there were over 67 million viewers of last nights debate and focus groups of undecideds seemed to be more open to Romney after his performance. Obviously it was the altitude that caused Obama to lose so badly......:poke: Excuses, Excuses: Gore Blames Altitude For Obama Debate Performance - ABC News Heard about Gore making the excuse the altitude caused Obama to have a poor debate. One of the most ridiculous excuses I have ever heard, to think Gore almost became president of this country. Can you cite please? Or perhaps thats mostly opinion... Best as I remember there was data after the 2008 election to support that, all indications are that likely will hold true for the most part again this time around, but no I do not have a specific link with numbers in front of me right now. It is amusing to me when someone from Wisconsin says they cannot understand why someone voted for Obama rather than for McCain the last time. Especially after the fundamentals of our economy are so sound, and what not. Go figure. California "is not a swing state". Some might argue your posts are equally amusing. Debate/discussion is good though, regardless of whether you are from a swing state or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzilla45 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Obama..tired. From what? When is the last time he's actually done anything? That goes for congress too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoobee Posted October 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 California is not a swing state, you are correct WTN. And it would be shocking if it became one. Reagan already fooled everyone here twice, so the people here are not in the mood to be fooled again by tax cuts for the rich or trickle down economics. The swing states are Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, and Colorado, with a few more that off the top of my head don't come to mind immediately. Romney needs to grab them all to catch up and pass Obama. Obama only needs one or two and then the party is over and you can turn out the lights for the Repubs. There will be 3 more debates to help the swing staters decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Can you cite please? Or perhaps thats mostly opinion... how about the 19 million who have a "free" obama cell phone? or the 6th generation folks on welfare? maybe the 18 million more folks added to the food stamp program? or the 10s of millions who got extra earned income credits obama created? you seriously think they may vote for anyone other than obama? as for reagan "fooling" america, tha's going to take some real creative history changing. check the economy he took over from carter (available from the goverment accounting office) and you'll see who really took over the worst economy in history, not the lies you're hearing today. finally, if obama wins this election, he'll then realize, and be quite correct, that he inherited the worst deficit and economy in history, his own. enjoy the cool aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bug House Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 The Upcoming Debates Steve, what I was questioning was the statement that the majority of Obama voters don't care about the Country. Just seems like opinionated rhetoric to me. Also: the so called "Obama phones", is actually called the Lifeline program started by the FCC in 1984 under Reagan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bug House Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 The Upcoming Debates Phones are not free to users and the program is not taxpayer funded. http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp http://www.fcc.gov/guides/lifeline-and-link-affordable-telephone-service-income-eligible-consumers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoobee Posted October 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Politics like religion is full of partisanship and BS. There is always enough of both to go around. Anyway so much for the phone issue. The VP debate will be next, on this coming Thur 10/11/2012. It will be interesting to see Biden and Ryan. They are both from the Senate and accomplished speakers. Ryan actually has greater credibility than Romney at this point, and it is unlikely that Ryan will flip flop or lie, as Romney seems to have done in the first debate. Telling the truth may be good or bad for the ticket however. Ryan's views have been a bit extreme in the past, including medicare vouchers. Medicare vouchers might work in poor states, but in rich states where everything is more expensive, they probably would not work. So the question is, do the swing state voters of Florida, with its high retireee population, want vouchers or not? This VP debate should help give them a clear choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Steve, what I was questioning was the statement that the majority of Obama voters don't care about the Country. Just seems like opinionated rhetoric to me. Also: the so called "Obama phones", is actually called the Lifeline program started by the FCC in 1984 under Reagan. Dunno for sure, but guessing Steve was talking about the cell phones that are given to people who qualify and YES they are free of charge to those who qualify, people who are at or below poverty level. They are not free to those of us who pay our bills though, you see that is where some of the fees the phone companies charge comes into play. And NO I do not think Reagan had anything to do with people getting "free" cell phones back in 1984. You are correct on them not being payed for with taxpayer money though, they just jack up my bill and everyone else who pays a bill with fees. Think we have somewhere in the neighborhood of $30.00 a month in tax and fees attached to our bill from at&t for home phone and the wife cell phone. I do not even have a cell phone myself cost too much and not a neccesity, but they take money from my bill go towards making sure someone else can have one. They also take a portion in fees of what we pay for our oldest daughter's pay as you go phone. I did inject some opinion into my reply in suggesting those voters I mentioned did not care about the direction of this country, some may actually care but just don't realize or understand what redistribution means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 The VP debate will be next, on this coming Thur 10/11/2012. It will be interesting to see Biden and Ryan. They are both from the Senate and accomplished speakers. Ryan actually has greater credibility than Romney at this point, and it is unlikely that Ryan will flip flop or lie, as Romney seems to have done in the first debate. Telling the truth may be good or bad for the ticket however. Ryan's views have been a bit extreme in the past, including medicare vouchers. Medicare vouchers might work in poor states, but in rich states where everything is more expensive, they probably would not work. So the question is, do the swing state voters of Florida, with its high retireee population, want vouchers or not? This VP debate should help give them a clear choice. Could be real interesting. Never know what Biden is gonna say, sometimes don't think he knows what he is going to say or is saying. The medicare and voucher system could be a heated topic that could play to the favor of either side depending on how they would handle the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Sometime today (Thur 10/4/2012) there will be a fresh batch of opinion surveys and polls conducted and reported. That will tell if there was any change to Romney's numbers. Only 20% of the population (60 million) watched the debates. I know a lot of Repubs who did not watch at all because they hate both candidates. Voting adults in this country will number somewhere around 120 million people. Total population of this country is 311 million. If 67 million watched then it would stand to reason that more than half the voters in this country watched. Romney is now up 49 to 47 percent in 11 swing states in the most recent polls that have come out. I could well be wrong, but to the best of my knowledge historically incumbents trailing in the polls less than a month from election have not fared well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Prior to the debate Biden as he was about to get on the plane said he was going with the "rope a dope" style or method. Strange performance on Biden's part, don't know how many times he tried to paint Romney and Ryan as liars, first 10-15 minutes he interrupted with "that is not factual" or "that is not accurate" several times and came off as arrogant and rude, however Biden did clearly contradict himself on a few issues for anyone paying attention to catch. Might come off as a hypocrite. If Biden was auditioning for a teeth whitening infomercial, he was the winner hands down. Don't know on all the factchecking yet if Ryan had any comments that will come back as inaccurate, not as aggressive as he probably could have been. Tuesday's debate will likely be more interesting. Don't think polls will shift much if any based on the debate performances from last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzilla45 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I'm not sure what Biden was thinking but he sure came off as arrogant and a few other words that I can't use on this forum. Laughing and smirking throughout the debate and continuously cutting Ryan off really turned off a lot of people. Even the focus panel on CNN afterwards thought the same thing and I'm sure most of them probably lean to the left. The moderator did a terrible job too in allowing Biden to interject whenever he wanted. The debate overall was hard to watch. I think it isn't going to hurt or help either party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDRUNNER Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I don't think the VP debate will sway voters one way or the other. It seemed to be pretty much a wash in the end. It's hard to put much stock into any of the numbers thrown around in these things. Seems to be mostly a "he said she said" with a bunch of made up numbers and partial truths. Biden came out swinging, and after Obama's last debate, I'm sure that was the game plan. He just came off as total DB with his interuptions, smirks, and his "my friend" comments. Ryan did well though. I think more than anything he proved he has the smarts and the gonads to be a great VP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 biden didn't help his cause at all. what a poor debate. he did show us that we have a nutcase who is a heartbeat away from president. that should scare the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Hearing that Obama intends to get more aggressive with this debate. Axelrod has given some indications that it will not be a repeat of the first debate performance, which is funny in itself since Axelrod's own immediate response following minutes after the first debate was that Obama had performed well and they were happy with his debate. Guess he had to spin it somehow, and clearly they were not really happy with the performance. Just my opinion, but think this format being a townhall style format for tonights debate could spell disaster for Obama if he goes over the top with being too aggressive. Will be interesting to see if he can find a balance and keep from coming off as being too arrogant while also being aggressive. I think Romney has somewhat of an advantage going into this debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 round 2 a draw imo While Obama had a much better performance in last nights debate, he was still evasive and a bit arrogant, a few key questions he never answered and he outright lied on the Benghazi terrorist attack. Moderator seemed to play to Obama's favor on a few occasions. Romney seemed consistent, but probably could have shared more on his plan as opposed to so many times saying "my plan" will fix the economic problems in this country. Don't know that any still undecided viewers/voters watching last night will be swung one way or the other, but some may be turned off by both being in each others face much of the debate. jm2cw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzilla45 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 I thought this debate was similar to the VP one in that it was hard to watch. They need to be able to switch off the microphones when it isn't their turn to talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrow32 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 The Upcoming Debates While Obama had a much better performance in last nights debate, he was still evasive and a bit arrogant, a few key questions he never answered and he outright lied on the Benghazi terrorist attack. Moderator seemed to play to Obama's favor on a few occasions. Romney seemed consistent, but probably could have shared more on his plan as opposed to so many times saying "my plan" will fix the economic problems in this country. Don't know that any still undecided viewers/voters watching last night will be swung one way or the other, but some may be turned off by both being in each others face much of the debate. jm2cw. Pretty well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Someone said somewhere in another post sometime in the past month or so it was all over for Romney due to a comment that had been taken out of context about the 47 percent. So here we are now less than 3 weeks from election and according to gallup it is anything but over for Romney at this point, Romney is up in the most recent polling amongst likely voters and for the first time is beyond the margin of error. Things are trending in favor of Romney, and historically an incumbent below in Obama's position has not won. Obama has never made it above the 50% mark, not good for an incumbent sitting president. That said I think Obama will be more aggressive yet in the last upcoming debate, he has to in order to try to swing the undecideds to his favor. In doing so he could very well open some doors that Romney could hammer him on. This last debate could be as interesting as the first and could high viewing. Hopefully the moderator takes a lesson on what not to do from Candy Crowley with her interference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 A little puzzled by Romney's approach to this final debate. While I don't believe it helped him, not sure it hurt him either. Romney did get in a few good points that will likely not get a lot of attention by the media. Kinda curious about other opinions, came across to me as him playing it safe with things trending in his favor. About the only thing I saw inaccurate from Romney was his geographical error on Iran. Obama had several inaccuracies that fact checkers should pick up on, however don't know that the msm will give much attention to those. Obama's attitude in my view was a bit too arrogant and at times over the top, more of the same from him. Moderator did have a slip too in saying "Obama" bin laden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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