Is it more important to......


The Bug House

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My personal belief.....it's more important to be God fearing.....but not neccessarily by suscribing to a specific set of religious beliefs. My relationship with God is just that, "mine". I attend a Baptist church, believe a good portion of what the Baptist doctrine teaches but there are a few things that I don't see eye to eye with it. Afterall, it's a man made religion and we know anything that is man made has the tendency to have errors. The bible teaches that one should work out (cultivate) their own salvation (not religion) with fear (reverence) and trembling (self distrust, with serious caution, tenderness of conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend God and discredit the name of Christ). By doing this it leads me to be warm-hearted toward fellow man just as the Lord teaches us to be.

Can one be warm hearted without being God fearing? Sure.

BTW....I still like smoked maple cheddar.....just sayin...

Edited by Dawg
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Think what you are asking kinda goes hand in hand if I understand the question/s right. Morals and values had to start somewhere, think religion probably helped even atheists learn to treat others the way they wanted to be treated without them even realizing it, society around them in general.

Like Dawg said and I firmly believe and agree with him that my relationship with God is just that, mine and mine alone, after all He knows what is in my heart. Guess how you choose to view fear or love of God is where in your heart you find your faith, figure if a person has strong enough faith then they really have nothing to fear because when it comes right down to it they probably know where they are going when they leave this world.

Far as treating other people, I try my best to live by the "golden rule" as best as I can but admit that I am only human and I fail miserably at times, and also think ethical actions go a long way, doing what is right when you have only your own conscience to weigh on you. Ultimately you may have to someday answer for those things.

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........My relationship with God is just that, "mine". ...

.......that my relationship with God is just that, mine and mine alone, ............

I guess I've always felt this way also, everyone has thier own interpretation. I read something from Carl Sagan once that said "For me, 'God' is the sum of all physical laws"......Thats pretty much the way I see it.

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I read something from Carl Sagan once that said "For me, 'God' is the sum of all physical laws"......

If one can believe that a whitetail, or a Baltimore oriole or an oak tree or a red fox or your wife & kids are the end result of random mergings of protoplasm and amino acids, then.......yeah........"physical laws".

"Warm-hearted" is really all well and good. BUT, only the acknowledgement of Jesus Christ, Son of God, as one's Lord and Savior will carry you any farther than the point where you assume room temperature.

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Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom as stated in Proverbs; Christianity is a "relationship" NOT a religion, and is between you and the Devine Trinity, God the Father, God the Spirit, and God the Son.

"Afterall, it's a man made religion and we know anything that is man made has the tendency to have errors."

Christianity is NOT a man made religion..Christ came to earth as a man yes, but he came to set us free on the cross, and by doing so set us free from sin IF we believe on Him. The Disciples were taught and then sent forth into all the world to preach this Gospel by Christ. Christianity is the ONLY true teaching of God's word, all others are "False" Gospels..their is only One Way to God and heaven..it is through Faith alone in Christ alone, for by his Grace are ye saved.

Now all "other" religions are "man made"..thus they are a "cult" by nature.

After you become a Christian, you become more loving, forgiving, and you walk a closer walk with the Lord. Yes we all fall short at times, but forgivness is endless with Christ. I'd be the first one to admit Im NOT perfect, but hate to think what Id be without Him as my Savior.

Great post Bug

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"Afterall, it's a man made religion and we know anything that is man made has the tendency to have errors."

Christianity is NOT a man made religion..Christ came to earth as a man yes, but he came to set us free on the cross, and by doing so set us free from sin IF we believe on Him. The Disciples were taught and then sent forth into all the world to preach this Gospel by Christ. Christianity is the ONLY true teaching of God's word, all others are "False" Gospels..their is only One Way to God and heaven..it is through Faith alone in Christ alone, for by his Grace are ye saved.

I wasn't referring to Christianity, Martin. Go back and re-read my post............I was referring to the Baptist doctrine.

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  • 2 weeks later...
If one can believe that a whitetail, or a Baltimore oriole or an oak tree or a red fox or your wife & kids are the end result of random mergings of protoplasm and amino acids, then.......yeah........"physical laws".

Thats exactly what I believe....Millions of years of Random Mutation & Natural Selection.

"Warm-hearted" is really all well and good. BUT, only the acknowledgement of Jesus Christ, Son of God, as one's Lord and Savior will carry you any farther than the point where you assume room temperature.

Well, what about the millions of other good people on the planet that are not Christian? What about the millions (presumably) of people on Earth that have never even heard of Christianity? What makes Christianity (Or any other religion) the "right' choice?

Edited by The Bug House
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Thats exactly what I believe....Millions of years of Random Mutation & Natural Selection.

You are entitled to believe what you want as am I. Great we have the right to speak about such topics freely, a lot of good men and women have died to afford us ALL that right to speak freely and choose our religion and express it.

Myself, I have a hard time seeing where some theories hold any water. Those theories like Darwin's have never been proven factual and are merely opinion which is taught and often confused by those teaching it to our children. If mutations have happened why are mosquitoes still mosquitoes or cockroaches still cockroaches, seems they would have evolved to something different over the millions of years they are said to have been around and they have not. Why over what we know as recorded time have we not seen animals evolve. Adaptation and evolution are terribly confused.

Well, what about the millions of other good people on the planet that are not Christian? What about the millions (presumably) of people on Earth that have never even heard of Christianity? What makes Christianity (Or any other religion) the "right' choice?

My understanding/interpretation of the bible is that those who have never had any opportunity to have been exposed to Christianity may have the opportunity at judgement, just like the child that dies that has never had any opportunity to have any influence. Those who have rejected God will face their fate. Christianity is the right choice for me, because I know without any doubt that Jesus is my Lord and Savior. I know Jesus died for me, pretty simple really. Again others are entitled their opinion, mine is mine.

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Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom as stated in Proverbs; Christianity is a "relationship" NOT a religion, and is between you and the Devine Trinity, God the Father, God the Spirit, and God the Son.

"Afterall, it's a man made religion and we know anything that is man made has the tendency to have errors."

Christianity is NOT a man made religion..Christ came to earth as a man yes, but he came to set us free on the cross, and by doing so set us free from sin IF we believe on Him. The Disciples were taught and then sent forth into all the world to preach this Gospel by Christ. Christianity is the ONLY true teaching of God's word, all others are "False" Gospels..their is only One Way to God and heaven..it is through Faith alone in Christ alone, for by his Grace are ye saved.

Now all "other" religions are "man made"..thus they are a "cult" by nature.

After you become a Christian, you become more loving, forgiving, and you walk a closer walk with the Lord. Yes we all fall short at times, but forgivness is endless with Christ. I'd be the first one to admit Im NOT perfect, but hate to think what Id be without Him as my Savior.

Great post Bug

I would never tell anyone the don't have the right to believe in whatever they want to. So again, respectfully:

I believe that all religions (including Christianity) are man made. Is there any evidence that suggests otherwise? I guess in bothers me a bit also that the notion of "you become more loving and forgiving" once your a Christian. I don't buy that one bit to be honest.

What is "perfect" anyway? What if we're all exactly the way we're supposed to be....."perfect" in a sense. I'm not suggesting there aren't bad people who do bad things....perhaps thats the way its "supposed" to be. Natural order of things.....the bad brings out the good...some sort of natural balancing act.

I certainly don't have all the answers and I'd never pretend to, I just know whats right for me.

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You are entitled to believe what you want as am I. Great we have the right to speak about such topics freely, a lot of good men and women have died to afford us ALL that right to speak freely and choose our religion and express it.

With all the way there...

Myself, I have a hard time seeing where some theories hold any water. Those theories like Darwin's have never been proven factual and are merely opinion which is taught and often confused by those teaching it to our children. If mutations have happened why are mosquitoes still mosquitoes or cockroaches still cockroaches, seems they would have evolved to something different over the millions of years they are said to have been around and they have not. Why over what we know as recorded time have we not seen animals evolve. Adaptation and evolution are terribly confused.

You lost me there, not sure what you mean about adaption/evolution confusion. As far as theory and opinion goes, the defiinition of Scientific Theory is:

"a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment." and "scientific theories must be falsifiable".

So far the Scientific Theory of Evolution has not been falsified, in other words, despite 170 years of trying no one has been able to come up with a better answer.

Do you question the Theory of Gravity as you do the Theory of Evolution?

I'd bet that Mosquitoes/Cockroaches have indeed mutated and evolved, however Natural Selection determines which mutations carry on.

My understanding/interpretation of the bible is that those who have never had any opportunity to have been exposed to Christianity may have the opportunity at judgement, just like the child that dies that has never had any opportunity to have any influence. Those who have rejected God will face their fate. Christianity is the right choice for me, because I know without any doubt that Jesus is my Lord and Savior. I know Jesus died for me, pretty simple really. Again others are entitled their opinion, mine is mine.

If that works for you, brings a positive aspect to your life and you feel its the right thing for you and yours....by all means. But don't tell me that I'm wrong for not subscribing to the same set of beliefs. Just how I feel I guess, my own opinion as well.

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So far the Scientific Theory of Evolution has not been falsified, in other words, despite 170 years of trying no one has been able to come up with a better answer.

Do you question the Theory of Gravity as you do the Theory of Evolution?

Think we had this discussion once before. A theory is just that, they remain theory until proven. The theory of evolution has never been and never will be proven as fact. Other theories exist about the creation of human life, they too have been unproven. Gravity is a mechanical law, sure you have heard of "newton's law".

If that works for you, brings a positive aspect to your life and you feel its the right thing for you and yours....by all means. But don't tell me that I'm wrong for not subscribing to the same set of beliefs. Just how I feel I guess, my own opinion as well.

Never told you that you were wrong, like I said before you are entitled your opinion. Sad reality is that aclu and some who have differing views are attempting to keep Christian's from expressing their rights.

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Is it more important to......

I didn't mean that you specifically said that, just the general sense that I get from some religious people.

Laws and theories are different things. A theory doesn't become a law. Physical Laws describe very specific things which have been observed, over time, to occur in the same fashion every time. Newton's Laws of motion are good example, they describe a series of relationships common to all bodies at rest or in motion. But laws do not explain things, Scientific Theories do. Before a theory has been tested it is called a hypothesis - basically an educated guess. And only when a hypothesis is found to be a useful predictive tool does it become an accepted Scientific Theory (caps for proper name) Evolution (the theory) explains evolution (the fact). Anyone can watch evolution take place, but (thus far) only the theory of evolution can explain how the process works. In other words, by earning the status of Scientific Theory, it essentially means it has not been disproven. And frankly no hypothesis has even come close.

To be honest, I'm not going to try and convince you any further, I suspect no matter how compelling the evidence, I'll be unable to. Besides, I'm really not trying to convince you, and I agree we each have the right to our own beliefs. As for trying to prevent Christians from exercising their beliefs, in reference specifically to Creationism not being taught in schools, that's because it has been disproven by the Scientific Theory of Evolution.

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Like I said before bug, there are other theories on how life began on earth and to my knowledge there has never been anyone or anything to prove that God does not exist. Therefore by your own words it must be factual that God created everything around us. Problem is the main theories considered cannot all be true and that is where the debate comes and you can believe as you wish, that is your right. Your questions show you are intrigued though and maybe you have some doubt.

Sadly on man made religion it is true that man has manipulated some forms of religion for their own purpose. Some have even posed as christians.

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Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom as stated in Proverbs; Christianity is a "relationship" NOT a religion, and is between you and the Devine Trinity, God the Father, God the Spirit, and God the Son.

Jesus said several times to "be not afraid". Think "fear of God" in reading the scriptures in the old testament about how the israelites wandered and strayed away from God really sometimes differs from how some interpret it and apply it to todays world. Just my perspective, but think generally speaking the israelites had to fear God in order to respect him. Fear can lead to respect, which I think is ultimately where you get to at some point as your relationship grows.

Laws and theories are different things. A theory doesn't become a law. Physical Laws describe very specific things which have been observed, over time, to occur in the same fashion every time. Newton's Laws of motion are good example, they describe a series of relationships common to all bodies at rest or in motion. But laws do not explain things, Scientific Theories do. Before a theory has been tested it is called a hypothesis - basically an educated guess. And only when a hypothesis is found to be a useful predictive tool does it become an accepted Scientific Theory (caps for proper name) Evolution (the theory) explains evolution (the fact). Anyone can watch evolution take place, but (thus far) only the theory of evolution can explain how the process works. In other words, by earning the status of Scientific Theory, it essentially means it has not been disproven. And frankly no hypothesis has even come close.

To be honest, I'm not going to try and convince you any further, I suspect no matter how compelling the evidence, I'll be unable to. Besides, I'm really not trying to convince you, and I agree we each have the right to our own beliefs. As for trying to prevent Christians from exercising their beliefs, in reference specifically to Creationism not being taught in schools, that's because it has been disproven by the Scientific Theory of Evolution.

Right law and theory are different things, you brought up gravity. Your theory of evolution you believe in is based on science, which is in all likelihood flawed. Because a scientific theory is tested and not proven false does not make it fact, just means it has not been disproven.

Do you deny God's existence? What about Jesus? Even muslims recognize Jesus, you think they made him up? Why would they make him up? Like I said before, if you cannot prove God is the creator and Jesus his son then how can you argue that as not being factual.

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At the risk of hijacking this thread to creation/ evolution, I will throw my 2 cents in. If I put my very real relationship with Jesus aside for the moment, It is my feeling that God has instilled into each and every human being, 2 things. First that there is a creator- a God in heaven. A simple look out the window shows so many wonders that evolution just doesnt work for me. Second, I think God instills in each of us a yearning for a relationship with the creator, and no other thing can fill that void. Its my belief that our society tries all manner of things( buying binges, drugs, sex, booze, you name it) in a vain effort to fill the void in lives where no relationship with God exists. The fact is, noone is truly content with their life till they get their relationship with God on track. Anyway, I guess what Im trying to say is the even the evolution proponents really know, deep down in their gut that there is a God.

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At the risk of hijacking this thread to creation/ evolution, I will throw my 2 cents in. If I put my very real relationship with Jesus aside for the moment, It is my feeling that God has instilled into each and every human being, 2 things. First that there is a creator- a God in heaven. A simple look out the window shows so many wonders that evolution just doesnt work for me. Second, I think God instills in each of us a yearning for a relationship with the creator, and no other thing can fill that void. Its my belief that our society tries all manner of things( buying binges, drugs, sex, booze, you name it) in a vain effort to fill the void in lives where no relationship with God exists. The fact is, noone is truly content with their life till they get their relationship with God on track. Anyway, I guess what Im trying to say is the even the evolution proponents really know, deep down in their gut that there is a God.

By contrast, I believe even Matthews XT Man is an Atheist, he's just afraid to openly admit it.

Edited by The Bug House
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.....Right law and theory are different things, you brought up gravity. Your theory of evolution you believe in is based on science, which is in all likelihood flawed. Because a scientific theory is tested and not proven false does not make it fact, just means it has not been disproven. .

So let me understand, when something cannot be disproven, you still don't consider it to be fact? What do you mean by science being flawed?

Do you deny God's existence?

Unequivocally.

What about Jesus? .

I believe there was a Human Being who called hiself Jesus of Nazereth.

Like I said before, if you cannot prove God is the creator and Jesus his son then how can you argue that as not being factual.

Huh?

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So let me understand, when something cannot be disproven, you still don't consider it to be fact? What do you mean by science being flawed?

Pretty self explanatory, I thought. Science being dealt with by man has the capacity to have errors and influenced by man. The "Theory" of evolution has NEVER been proven, and it never will. Just because it has never been disproven does not make it fact, by the rationale that it does if you truly believe that then how could you possibly rule out that God exists when His existence has never been disproven? Remember YOU said any theory not disproven must be fact.

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