Silverado Brakes

[Tominator]

So I take my '03 Silverado in for a rear brake job and an oil change. I take it home and drive to work the next day. As I get out of the truck I smell a noticeable brake shoe smell coming off of it, driver's side. I'm thinking I have a stuck caliper or they installed the new emergency brake a little too snug. I touch the disk and it's warm, then I touch the drum part of the rotar, and it's pretty hot.

Call the dealer, take it in and they check it out. 15 minutes later service guy comes in and says "everything's free, nothing stuck, E-brake is fine...we're going to have to keep it and let you know what we find tomorrow...could be the 'hose' or something..." I asked what a brake line has to do with the rotar heating up... He says "I really don't know until we look at it."

I can just see dropping another $200 on this. This dealer has always done good work, but this one makes me nervous.

What else could heat up the rotar like that? Bearing?

[redkneck]

Sounds funny to me Chris about the line. But you can expect maybe a little initial smell coming off a new set of pads I think, and depending on your definition of "hot" your calipers can warm up pretty good with the heat coming off the rotor/pads.

I never let a dealer touch my brakes, they can't be trusted!!! :ninja:

Free brake inspection my butt! lol Take a new one in and they'll tell you you need rotors!

[wtnhunt]

Sounds funny to me Chris about the line. But you can expect maybe a little initial smell coming off a new set of pads I think, and depending on your definition of "hot" your calipers can warm up pretty good with the heat coming off the rotor/pads.

I never let a dealer touch my brakes, they can't be trusted!!! :ninja:

Free brake inspection my butt! lol Take a new one in and they'll tell you you need rotors!

Bingo, think John has it right Chris. Not uncommon to smell new pads and yes the rotors will heat up the calipers. Far as the dealer and brakes, don't know that I trust anyone on brakes, I do my own.

[LETMGROW]

Sounds like a caliper problem to me. Especially if they just forced the piston back without opening the bleeder. At 9 years old you probably have a residue built up in the caliper housing behind the piston. This can cause the piston to stick after the pads are installed and the piston moves back out to contact the pads. They may be able to flush the caliper out but I would be reluctant to trust it.

In our shop we never force a piston back without opening the bleeder and letting the fluid escape. The contaminated fluid can be forced back into the ABS unit and can lead to extensive repair costs.

Hoses can be a problem also, although in this situation I don't think so. Hoses can deteriorate over time and actually break apart internally. Pressing the brake pedal creates alot of pressure within the hose which moves the piston and applies the pads to the rotors. When you release the brake pedal the only thing to move the piston back to release pressure on the pads is the square cut "o" ring seal in the caliper housing. There is very little pressure within the hose. If the hose were deteriorated or collapsed inside the low pressure might not be able to pass the bad spot and the piston would not move and the pads would have pressure still applied to them. This can be diagnosed easily. If you have the wheels off the ground and press the brake pedal and the brakes lock up that is normal. You can't turn the wheel. If you release the brake pedal and you still can't turn the wheel the piston is still applied. If you open the bleeder and see a spurt of fluid from the bleeder and the brake releases there is a restriction. If the brake still doesn't release there is a problem with the caliper assembly.

The reason I say assembly is it may not be a hydraulic problem at all. It could be mechanical. These calipers are mounted to a bracket via 2 pins which screw through the caliper into the mounting bracket. These pins are prone to seiziure. They must be totally clean and lubed with a caliper grease so they don't bind in any way. The pads are suspended in the brackets with two sliders which are prone to rust and corrosion. These must also be clean and lubed. The pads have to slip freely within the brackets. We often see cases where the do it yourselfer hammers pads out of a bracket and hammers a new set into the bracket. If the pads can't move freely they won't fall away from the rotor when the piston moves back. We use a glass bead blaster to clean all the parts I have mentioned. We use premium grade pads which come with new sliders. They are also available as a hardware kit at most parts stores.

Some calipers are stubborn. The pistons may move freely when you move them back to install new pads then after a short drive they bind up and you have a hot running brake. If we question the condition of a caliper we recommend a rebuilt caliper and bracket. Until you have experienced a customer coming back with a hot rotor who is hotter than the rotor you might not

understand why we often recommend and replace calipers.

In the case of the '03 Silverado I would bet we would have recommended caliper replacement. These are a die cast housed unit which seems more prone to corrosion than the old cast iron units.

We road test every brake job and carry an infrared heat gun with us. After a couple miles of driving with moderate brake application ( not heavy ) we stop and shoot each rotor for temperature. The front rotors should be nearly the same temp. from side to side. The rears the same from side to side. Generally the fronts will run hotter than the rears. This is normal.

Lynn

[redkneck]

Lynn I would definitely not hesitate to bring anything in to your shop, you surely go the distance to make sure its done right.

Me, I just take a c clamp and push the piston back lol.

But I still don't trust my dealer!

[LETMGROW]

Lynn I would definitely not hesitate to bring anything in to your shop, you surely go the distance to make sure its done right.

Me, I just take a c clamp and push the piston back lol.

But I still don't trust my dealer!

Thank you for the kind words.

I hate to have to do anything twice. I have always maintained, " why can you always find time to do something over when you didn't have time to do it right the first time"

There was a time you could just slam the pistons back and get it done. It is different today. With all the extra lines, leveling valves, abs units, etc. it doesn't work well. This is also true with the 4 piston calipers which are common on alot of cars and trucks. These pistons hardly move at all. As the pads wear the pistons move in to take up the space. By the time the pads are worn out they have only moved about 1/4". Up here you can start out in the am with temperatures at zero or below then apply brakes which create alot of heat while stopping. Then they quickly cool off. This cycle creates alot of moisture which can cause problems eventually. We recommend flushing of the braking system periodoticly to help prevent contamination. The interval might be longer in southern climates but still should be done any time brakes are serviced.

Lynn

[redkneck]

Prob why my abs light has been on for the last 150k miles or so lol, and I have to get off them and tap then going across rr tracks!

[wtnhunt]

Lynn I would definitely not hesitate to bring anything in to your shop, you surely go the distance to make sure its done right.

Me, I just take a c clamp and push the piston back lol.

But I still don't trust my dealer!

Use a c clamp and a block here, has worked pretty well I think.

Sounds like a caliper problem to me. Especially if they just forced the piston back without opening the bleeder. At 9 years old you probably have a residue built up in the caliper housing behind the piston. This can cause the piston to stick after the pads are installed and the piston moves back out to contact the pads. They may be able to flush the caliper out but I would be reluctant to trust it.

Saw where Chris said:

Call the dealer, take it in and they check it out. 15 minutes later service guy comes in and says "everything's free, nothing stuck

and kind of assumed that it would not be the caliper, but Lynn may be right.

[Tominator]

Turns out it was a stuck caliper. They put a new one on, no charge.

Guy said it was fine when they put the new pads on, but for whatever reason....

Thanks for all the info Lynn. In reading all of that, now I'm wondering if they did all that and I'm also wondering if that rotar is or was damaged at all. It was probably driven close to 300 miles with a stuck caliper.

[LETMGROW]

Honestly I would have replaced the rotor. I might have a better chance of warranting it than they though.

If the rotor doesn't look blued or you don't get a pulsation in the brake you are probably good to go. The stuck piston probably didn't come on all at once but gradually.

I'm glad they treated you right. Nice to know there are other honest shops out there. Some would have to tried hiding the problem and charged you for something.

Lynn

[VermontHunter]

Lynn,

My 2004 is getting close to a brake job as well ,, what do you reccomend for brake pad replacements ???

[LETMGROW]

Lynn,

My 2004 is getting close to a brake job as well ,, what do you reccomend for brake pad replacements ???

I recommend a Good quality ceramic pad if they are available for the vehicle I am working on.

In most cases I use the Premium line of pads from NAPA. There are other good parts out there as well such as Wagner, AC Delco etc. but as my shop is adjacent to a NAPA store I buy the majority of my parts there. The part number will start with SS. Most of these pad sets come with the hardware I spoke about in my previous post. They offer more expensive and cheaper pads but I do also have to be somewhat competitive with pricing.

The ceramic pads will cause much less dusting from the normal pad wear. You can see this as a black residue on wheel rims which should be cleaned off before it turns to rust. There are quite a few Chrysler vehicles out there which there is no ceramic replacement for. I'm not sure why but there is only metallic pads available for certain models.

Another advantage to the ceramics is they tend to be quieter than full metallic. If a vehicle sits for periods of time without being driven the pads tend to rust less. This is a common problem I see all too often. I live a short distance from an army base. When these soldiers get deployed their vehicles can sit for a year or longer without being moved. When they return they often have to have their vehicles towed to a shop to disassemble and totaly clean and service the brakes. The pads will rust to the rotors so they won't turn at all. We seldom see this on a vehicle equipped with ceramic pads. You might see some rust but not like the metallics.

Lynn

[LETMGROW]

Servicing brakes

In my previous posts I have failed to mention up to this point how we recommend to every brake customer we have, that they return the vehicle to us in a year for brake servicing. Where we are in NY state the highway departments spread salt on the roads if there is any talk of an oncoming snow or ice storm. It is not uncommon to see salt and sand spread on a state highway when it is 40 plus degrees outside. This whole clear road policy is left over from 1980 when we had the Olympics here in Lake Placid. All our government people wanted folks visiting to see clear roads and not be slipping and sliding around. This was fine for a week or two but after the folks went home and the natives were left to be we don't need all the crap they spread. We grew up with snow and ice and can cope with it. You learn how to drive in it and slow down when necessary. I grew up driving rear wheel drive 4000# plus cars with recap snow tires. The roads were covered in hardpacked snow and I knew it. Use your head and you were fine, get stupid and you'd be in the ditch or clip a power pole.

When all the highway supers and workers found how much overtime and pay they could muster up they rallied to keep the policy in effect.

As a result our cars get destroyed before alot of them get totally paid for. Rusted bodies, frames, brake and fuel lines, floorboards etc. It is pitiful.

At any rate when I have a customer come back in for brake service we remove the calipers and brackets, free up and clean all the pins, mounts and anchors. We bead blast the caliper brackets and hardware and lube everything as necessary. We check and clean the rotors and lightly machine them if necessary. We also clean and deglaze the pads on a large belt sanding table.

The brakes will operate like the day we installed them and we can see about double the mileage from a set of pads and rotors. This process takes about an hour per axle.

We get alot of people who come back and thank us when we do this. A usual comment is something like: " I didn't even know they were getting bad."

Lynn

[VermontHunter]

Thanks for the info Lynn ,, greatly appreciate it.

[LETMGROW]

Thanks for the info Lynn ,, greatly appreciate it.

Always glad to help when I can. Give me the info on your truck and I'll shoot the part#'s to you.

I'll need to know if it is a standard 1500 2 or 4wd and if it is an HD model which has 2 piston rear calipers or the standard 1 piston. Rear pads and rotors are different. I believe the front's are the same. The rears can fight you when pulling the rotors off. You might consider buying the shoes and a hardware kit when you get your parts. They should let you return them if you don't need them. It might save you a trip back in the middle of the job.

Lynn

[LETMGROW]

I tried to edit my post. I wanted to add : OPEN those bleeders before you push the pistons back!

There!

Lynn

[VermontHunter]

Always glad to help when I can. Give me the info on your truck and I'll shoot the part#'s to you.

I'll need to know if it is a standard 1500 2 or 4wd and if it is an HD model which has 2 piston rear calipers or the standard 1 piston. Rear pads and rotors are different. I believe the front's are the same. The rears can fight you when pulling the rotors off. You might consider buying the shoes and a hardware kit when you get your parts. They should let you return them if you don't need them. It might save you a trip back in the middle of the job.

Lynn

Lynn,

I have a 2004 Silverado 1500 4X4 Extended cab, with the 5.3L it's NOT the HD model ...

If I open the bleeder valves ( which I've never done before, I just pushed the piston back ) will I need to rebleed the brakes ??

[LETMGROW]

NO. Especially if you close it just before the piston bottoms out. Another word of warning or caution. NEVER let a caliper hang just by the hose. Support it with a bungee cord or wire it up so you don't damage the hose in any way.

I'll get back to you on the parts.

Lynn

[LETMGROW]

Here are the part numbers for NAPA brakes:

Frt. pads SS7653X

RR. pads SS7662X

F rotors 4886825

R rotors 4886827

PB shoes UP 10781PB

PB hardware UP3092

I quoted the premium rotors. This is generally what we use. They also have a line called Ultra premium which costs two to two and one half times as much. I have honestly never seen any advantage. We do have to stay competitively priced. We do check every rotor we install for runout etc. in our brake lathe. We seldom have one out of spec. If we do, we machine it slightly to true it. I have seen as many UP rotors out of spec. as the cheaper line.

We never turn out a brake job without at least machining rotors. We measure each one and compare it to published specs. If it goes under spec we discard it. I tell the customer this from the outset. If he balks at the way we do things I turn the job away.

I would rather have a customer a little upset because I wanted to do something right than do the job wrong and have a problem soon after completing the job.

Brakes are not something to be complacent about. Someone's life may very well depend on the brake performance given the right situation.

Lynn

[Ravin R10 man]

I take my vehicles to Midas..the owner is TOP NOTCH

[VermontHunter]

Here are the part numbers for NAPA brakes:

Frt. pads SS7653X

RR. pads SS7662X

F rotors 4886825

R rotors 4886827

PB shoes UP 10781PB

PB hardware UP3092

I quoted the premium rotors. This is generally what we use. They also have a line called Ultra premium which costs two to two and one half times as much. I have honestly never seen any advantage. We do have to stay competitively priced. We do check every rotor we install for runout etc. in our brake lathe. We seldom have one out of spec. If we do, we machine it slightly to true it. I have seen as many UP rotors out of spec. as the cheaper line.

We never turn out a brake job without at least machining rotors. We measure each one and compare it to published specs. If it goes under spec we discard it. I tell the customer this from the outset. If he balks at the way we do things I turn the job away.

I would rather have a customer a little upset because I wanted to do something right than do the job wrong and have a problem soon after completing the job.

Brakes are not something to be complacent about. Someone's life may very well depend on the brake performance given the right situation.

Lynn

Thanks Lynn ... appreciate it,

[Shaun_300]

Glad they took care of the problem Chris. The LR caliper seized shortly after I put my 2000 Silverado on the road in the spring, then not too much after that the LR caliper seized on dad's 2001 Silverado lol. Have seen quite a few seize up on these trucks, especially the caliper pins!

Thanks for all the advice and help Lynn.

[LETMGROW]

Those pins are a sore subject. That's why I like to do the follow up annual service.

I should have mentioned to carefully look at the fit between the rubber boot and the pin. If there is a loose fit at all or the boot is torn it should be replaced.

These are available in a kit. Not expensive either.

We have issues up here the southerner's don't have.

I know Ontario isn't much if any different. Not sure about Vermont.

Lynn

[VermontHunter]

Those pins are a sore subject. That's why I like to do the follow up annual service.

I should have mentioned to carefully look at the fit between the rubber boot and the pin. If there is a loose fit at all or the boot is torn it should be replaced.

These are available in a kit. Not expensive either.

We have issues up here the southerner's don't have.

I know Ontario isn't much if any different. Not sure about Vermont.

Lynn

I'll be sure to check these points carefully ... I may just get the kits and install them anyhow and bypass any after the fact problems ... and YES Vermont has the same salt amd moisture issues, that stuff is just dang nasty hard on undercarriage parts ..

[Shaun_300]

We also recommend brake services at our shop too. Makes a huge difference in pad life!

Corrosion up here in unreal, sometimes I can't even do a wheel alignment on a 2 year old vehicle without having to use a torch to unsieze the jam nuts on the tie rods.:wacko: