WaCoyote Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 My best friend being a lib informed me that if the cops guns didn't hold so many bullets this tragedy wouldn't have happened today. "The Clinton gun ban was there to address this and now it's dead. That bill saved lives and now look what happened" I'm sure Bigbulls'r and slugmania will explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault The AWB banning hi-cap mags wouldn't have applied because police officers, at least here, always carried at least 15 rounds, last time I heard there weren't that many shots fired in this deal today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault [ QUOTE ] The AWB banning hi-cap mags wouldn't have applied because police officers, at least here, always carried at least 15 rounds [/ QUOTE ] All it takes is one round to kill a person. One person dead in a situation like this is one too many. The capacity of the gun or the mag like sluggo said would never have affected the officers handgun as they would have been exempted from mag capacity bans being law enforcement officers. [ QUOTE ] Atlants shooting is "Hi Caps" fault [/ QUOTE ] It is the man who pulled the triggers fault period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaCoyote Posted March 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault Unfortunately sarcasm doesn't show up when typing. I was trying to point out how insane the anti gun / assault weapon ban arguement is. My bud really thinks that it's the Hi caps fault. I don't! I was relaying a point of view similar to many gun control types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault I just wanted to add one thing here.They had according to the news, confiscated 2 weapons from this same guy just a day or so before he got ahold of the gun.That by itself should tell you this guy was gonna take someone out, gun or not.It didnt matter how many bullets the gun held, he had already made up his mind he was escaping one way or the other and killing whoever got in his way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault IMHO, there's two things you can blame on this tragedy: #1--What the heck was someone thinking when they passed the law that says suspected crimminals will not be handcuffed so as to not predjudice a jury. (now talk about stupid laws) And #2--Why the heck would you let a woman deputy escort a guy like that, especially a guy who they knew was dangerous and actually asked for extra security for the days previous to the incident? If this scum had cuffs on, and was escorted by men as strong or stronger than him 4 people would be alive right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault From what I have heard, the reason suspects are not paraded in front of a jury in handcuffs and jumpsuit is to not negatively persuade the jury, heck, if you were on trial and were innocent would you want the jury to see you in handcuffs and jumpsuit. Even though the jury is supposed to be impartial, they are people that can be easily persuaded by first impressions. Secondly, the judge was well aware of the shanks that were confiscated from this guy and he is the one who did not want extra security on this guy on the pure basis that the judge was a decent human being and didn't want this guy treated like an animal. In any criminal court proceding, the person on trial is handcuffed and in a jumpsuit before he is led into the court room, last I heard, he was in the process of changing when he made his escape. In hindsight, yes, he should have had extra security but I don't think anyone thought this would ever happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault Sluggo, I hate to rain on your parade here, but a few months ago, in Atlanta, there were 2 13 year old girls on trial in juvenile court for taking a tainted cake to school. A few people got sick but nothing life threatening. These girls were both around 115 pounds and had never been in any trouble at all. They had no problem having them shackeld at the ankles and handcuffed at the waist. If a defendant has a history of attemting to smuggle weapons into the court room (as this one did) it is in the best interest of everybody involved to have them cuffed. Not wanting to prejudice the jury now has 4 corpses attatched to it. Not quite an even trade off if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault I am a person who fails to understand why this guy was not at least handcuffed as they were bringing him in. I realized you were being sarcastic wacoyote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault [ QUOTE ] From what I have heard, the reason suspects are not paraded in front of a jury in handcuffs and jumpsuit is to not negatively persuade the jury, heck, if you were on trial and were innocent would you want the jury to see you in handcuffs and jumpsuit. Even though the jury is supposed to be impartial, they are people that can be easily persuaded by first impressions. Secondly, the judge was well aware of the shanks that were confiscated from this guy and he is the one who did not want extra security on this guy on the pure basis that the judge was a decent human being and didn't want this guy treated like an animal. In any criminal court proceding, the person on trial is handcuffed and in a jumpsuit before he is led into the court room, last I heard, he was in the process of changing when he made his escape. In hindsight, yes, he should have had extra security but I don't think anyone thought this would ever happen. [/ QUOTE ] Unbelievable you could defend the actions of this low-life. Sometimes I think you sit back and see how much you can rile us just to see what we'll come back with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault [ QUOTE ] In hindsight, yes, he should have had extra security but I don't think anyone thought this would ever happen. [/ QUOTE ] Ummm, how about the judge!? Ironically, the judge forecasted some sort of violence. He warned the DA that he thought he might be in danger after they found homemade weapons in the low-lifes shoes. From CNN: [ QUOTE ] Courthouse security Some said the shooting was predictable given the security lapses at the courthouse. "The security in the Fulton County Courthouse, the way they deal with prisoners, is absolutely atrocious," attorney Dennis Scheib told CNN. "I said this was going to happen." Scheib said deputies outside the courthouse told him that a knife-like weapon was discovered in Nichols' boot last week. Fulton County State Court Judge Craig Schwall, however, described security at the courthouse as "phenomenal." Judges have their own private elevator, accessible only by key card, he said. Their chambers are heavily secured, he said, and they and other court officials have their own secure parking garage. "I think that, as public servants, we all have to be mindful of these risks," Schwall said. [/ QUOTE ] ***COMMENT REMOVED*** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault Just my opinion but I couldnt see where sluggo was defending the guy, he was just running through the events as they happened in reference to a couple posts above it. Hes actually got some pretty decent points about what led up to this.The judge did know the guy was dangerous, he already had weapons confiscated from him, they had a meeting about beefing up security on the guy, and then they still only had the female deputy guarding him. And parading a guy into a courtroom in handcuffs isnt really a common practice for the same reason they dont make em wear prison clothes to trial.Juries like it or not are easily biased, and setting there in front of them in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffs day after days not gonna make a very favorable impression.Theres court cases all over TV nowdays, how many defendants do you see wearing cuffs throughout the trial?? Guesse what Im saying is theres a difference between defending what the killer did and debating how it coulda been avoided, at least to me there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault [ QUOTE ] From what I have heard, the reason suspects are not paraded in front of a jury in handcuffs and jumpsuit is to not negatively persuade the jury, heck, if you were on trial and were innocent would you want the jury to see you in handcuffs and jumpsuit. Even though the jury is supposed to be impartial, they are people that can be easily persuaded by first impressions. Secondly, the judge was well aware of the shanks that were confiscated from this guy and he is the one who did not want extra security on this guy on the pure basis that the judge was a decent human being and didn't want this guy treated like an animal. In any criminal court proceeding, the person on trial is handcuffed and in a jumpsuit before he is led into the court room, last I heard, he was in the process of changing when he made his escape. In hindsight, yes, he should have had extra security but I don't think anyone thought this would ever happen. [/ QUOTE ] Sluggo is right. This is exactly why it happened. It seems that the rights of the accused, who are involved (accused) of violent crimes, supersede the rights and safety, of everyone else in the courtroom and on the way to the courtroom. If they don't want to prejudice the jury, then why don't they shackle the defendant (hands and feet) and bring him into the court-room before they allow the jury in. Also, build the defendants sitting area, so that their shackles are not visible to the jury. Also, having a prisoner escorted by only one guard from the lock-up, to the change-room and then to the court-room is ridiculous. There should be a minimum of two guards on all prisoners, This event happened because of a lackadaisical lax security system in the courthouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault Thanks horst and buckee, I in no way defended the actions of this guy Tominator, I only gave the reasons why he was not being dragged into court hogtied, I noticed that you failed to answer my question, if YOU were innocent of a violent heinous crime, would YOU want to be dragged in front of an easily biased jury who could make the decision regarding your life based on you looking like a criminal when you were being led into court. If you answer yes then you have some problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault Hmmm, you do see some criminals being taken into the courthouse in their orange or whatever color prison clothing and cuffed. This guy was accused of rape, maybe only more violent criminals are cuffed as they enter the courtroom? I still think he and all others should be, have been cuffed all the way to the point he got in where he sits. Like buckee says, bring the jury in later. Simple to overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault So the next time this guys gets dragged into court are you all for him NOT being handcuffed seeing that he "allegeldly" accosted a policeoffer, took her firearm, "allegeldly" shot and killed a Judge, court reporter, another policeofficer and then later "allegedly" shot and killed a customs officer, stole his truck and then "allegedly" kidnapped a woman and held her against her will for several hours? Makes sense to me guys - I mean come on, he's a human being and deserves every right afforded to a human being - probably more rights than the victums he murdered....yeah, that's the ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault [ QUOTE ] are you all for him NOT being handcuffed seeing that ............... [/ QUOTE ] Hey, I hope "you all" doesn't include me ...LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault [ QUOTE ] Tominator, I only gave the reasons why he was not being dragged into court hogtied, I noticed that you failed to answer my question, if YOU were innocent of a violent heinous crime, would YOU want to be dragged in front of an easily biased jury who could make the decision regarding your life based on you looking like a criminal when you were being led into court. [/ QUOTE ] Trust me bud, I know the reasons, I guess I don't define my life with turmoil like you do--I think you live for this, it's the only explanation I can come up with. You're a poster child for the ACLU--with all due respect of course, because now you'll obviously come back and say "accusation this, accusation that" and to be honest, I don't care. Anyway, back to your point, would I want to be cuffed, shackled, orange suit? How's the saying go "there's a sucker born every minute?" P.T. Barnum I believe. You mean to tell me that if the jury is told the cuffs and suit are standard operating procedure we do it to all suspects, all the jurors would be outraged and form biased opinons? Other states, including Ohio, bring suspects into a courtroom with jumpsuits and sometimes cuffs, so are we infringing on all their rights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault Pointing the finger after the fact is pretty easy to do. Alot of should haves or could haves might have or probably would saved those lives lost. It is really sad. He should have been cuffed, and that would likely have prevented any of this from happening, but noone could have known though that this was going to take place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault [ QUOTE ] but noone could have known though that this was going to take place. [/ QUOTE ] William, see my comment above. The judge that was gunned downed forecasted the possibility of danger.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault Yes Tom, I did read that before, but dont think he(the judge) had any idea that his life and others would end that day in the way that things unfolded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault I don't think there is a person out there that thinks, "I am going to get shot today, along with a few of my co-workers." All I am saying is they found a home made weapon in his shoe earlier. What was his intentions with that? To smear butter on bread? No. This guy was a danger before the court room shooting and should have been in cuffs and shackles. What "innocent man" fashions a home made knife and harbors it in his boots? I can see Sluggo's point though. If I was innocent and charged with commiting a crime I didn't do, I wouldn't want to be cuffed either. But you can bet that I wouldn't go and make a weapon and store it in my boot, just in case.....This guy had violence in mind from the time he was initially caught. Innocent until proven guilty? This guy was guilty of carrying a concealed weapon he made in jail. Cuff him in front of anybody and everybody. JMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault I heard a lawyer on the news say that Nickles didn't have violence in his past record ... Say WHAT .....rape is violence last time I checked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault Defense lawyers have a different view than the prosecuting lawyers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: Atlants shooting is \"Hi Caps\" fault Fault ultimately lies on Nichols shoulders. Not the gun, nor the high capacity clip, nor the unsuspecting woman transporting him. Sure they should have seen the need for him to have been restrained and had better security. Mistakes happen leading to deaths of innocent people everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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