Any surveyors here?

[wtnhunt]

Evidently the property behind us will be changing hands, going to post another thread on that. Have some questions for a surveyor or anyone who might know. When we bought our property back in 92 it had been surveyed and our lines I thought I knew fairly well. On the line in question our deed says after so many poles our property is the centerline of said river channel and winds joining the sold property behind us with that channel to the furthest point of our where our property adjoining that said property ends at which point we have a different neighboring border. Works out to be somewhere just shy of 3/4 of a mile of joining lines along that winding river channel. That sold property extends past ours to the east on our neighbor(where we have sole permission) and also on around past us to the west for roughly a 1/4 mile.

Surveyors have flagged both sides of the river, more flags on our side than on the other from what I am able to see. Of course over time the old river channel has filled in with sand in some places, but generally the lines have remained the same and some of their lines I am fairly certain are wrong. Matter of fact I know they are wrong in some place on my neighbor, his property extends 42 yards deeper than ours at the very back of ours to an old fence and I can remember that because that fence where it was once on us extended on across the channel and it had at one time been flagged going back years ago showing the center of our line at that channel. They ran his lines even with mine jumping back and forth across the channel and zig zagging, a pretty fair chunk of my neighbors ground, his clearly extends beyond that channel by all maps and is for the most part a straight line. Also a place on ours at the back they are backed up on us about 15 yards actually crosses a fence that the man who owned the property prior to us had put up.

These surveyors flagged trees on the neighbor where I had painted blue lines when I posted the land in accordance with our game warden as close to the property lines as I could and those trees are back off the line onto that neighbor(I was conservative following the end of the neighbors fence on that line not knowing the exact line), but those were the closest trees to the lines and they flagged them. So my questions are with knowing they are off on the neighbor and apparently just tying up marking tape whereever on him, if they took off a wrong starting point, how hard would it be for them to get off on our lines? Is it possible they just flagged as they went along thinking no one would realize the lines are not right? It is a swamp, not probably the easiest place to shoot lines to begin with.

County maps have lines drawn, I got gps coordinates off those lines, and they are more consistent with where I am remembering our lines should be than some of the surveyors flags.

[Ethan Givan]

My dad is a surveyor and I have worked with him for several years on and off.

Is the surveyor done with the survey?

Its possible that the flagging you are seeing is only marking traverse points, and not the property line. Surveyors have to run a closed traverse to locate all the corners, fences etc. so they could have zig zagged back and forth locating the channel if thats where the line is supposed to be.

We never marked the actual property line unless the client specifically asked us to so they could build a fence or something. We only flag existing property corners that we find that the deed calls for (cap and pin, stone, tree etc.) and then if a corner monument is missing we set new pins and flag them. If a surveyor has located both property corners and wants to mark the property line in between, they should be able to do so very accurately. Its hard for me to follow every thing that you are talking about and what they might have done without seeing it myself.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Ethan Givan

[wtnhunt]

My dad is a surveyor and I have worked with him for several years on and off.

Is the surveyor done with the survey?

Its possible that the flagging you are seeing is only marking traverse points, and not the property line. Surveyors have to run a closed traverse to locate all the corners, fences etc. so they could have zig zagged back and forth locating the channel if thats where the line is supposed to be.

We never marked the actual property line unless the client specifically asked us to so they could build a fence or something. We only flag existing property corners that we find that the deed calls for (cap and pin, stone, tree etc.) and then if a corner monument is missing we set new pins and flag them. If a surveyor has located both property corners and wants to mark the property line in between, they should be able to do so very accurately. Its hard for me to follow every thing that you are talking about and what they might have done without seeing it myself.

Thanks Ethan, they should be done.

That would make sense about the zigzagging part of the way, but not where they went on my neighbor since it is nowhere near his line. I am going to have to get back out to look to see if they marked the corners with pins, that property's corners do not meet on our property if that makes any sense. I can try to shoot you a pm with a link to the county map.

[Rhino]

I believe Ethan is probably right about them just flagging traverse points. If they were specifically marking points on the property line between corners they will add stakes next to a pin they hammer in the ground & those pins will correspond with points on the survey plat. Unless a surveyor is specifically asked to mark the lines, they only mark the corners with pins & stakes. If they are asked to mark points along the line they will charge more for it too. From my recent experience with 4 tracts either I or my buddy bought in MO, even if you ask them to mark the lines between corners they often forget to do it since it's not usually done. We had to send them back out there...twice.

[stevebeilgard]

are there fences, arty? if so, check your state law. often the old fences are the actual property line and not the survey. wyoming is one of those states. where the ranchers ran the fence 100 years ago is the actual property, over riding what the title says.

if there is any question, you can have your land surveyed by an independent surveyor also. surveyors can make mistakes and can also be "bought off". actually, you should have a survey from when you built your home. most banks demand a survey to give a home loan, just to make sure they have a proper lien.

[Ethan Givan]

I see what your talking about William, the map shows that property extending on down past yours just a bit. Does your property have a set corner where your line begins running North from the river and his meet? Could be that they found that corner and thought that was the back of the other property. Sometimes deeds are not good either, and are very vague, leaving the surveyor little to work with.

We have a map system here very similiar to the one you sent me, and I can say from experience that what these maps show are not concrete, and sometimes they are wrong. The surveyor has to survey from the deed, and what he finds on the property. The best advice I can give you is to contact the surveyor that did the work, and ask to talk to him. If he is a reputable surveyor, he will be more than willing to discuss the situation and try to get it right.

are there fences, arty? if so, check your state law. often the old fences are the actual property line and not the survey. wyoming is one of those states. where the ranchers ran the fence 100 years ago is the actual property, over riding what the title says.

if there is any question, you can have your land surveyed by an independent surveyor also. surveyors can make mistakes and can also be "bought off". actually, you should have a survey from when you built your home. most banks demand a survey to give a home loan, just to make sure they have a proper lien.

Could be true, I dont know about TN laws. Although Im sure it has happened, I have never heard of a surveyor being bought off. My dad has been surveying since 1978 and I have never heard him mention anyone trying to bribe him. I doubt thats the case here.

[wtnhunt]

actually, you should have a survey from when you built your home. most banks demand a survey to give a home loan, just to make sure they have a proper lien.

No survey required when we built our house Steve. We took a loan against our 60 acres of land to build, at that time we owned it, no mortgage.

I see what your talking about William, the map shows that property extending on down past yours just a bit. Does your property have a set corner where your line begins running North from the river and his meet? Could be that they found that corner and thought that was the back of the other property. Sometimes deeds are not good either, and are very vague, leaving the surveyor little to work with.

We have a map system here very similiar to the one you sent me, and I can say from experience that what these maps show are not concrete, and sometimes they are wrong. The surveyor has to survey from the deed, and what he finds on the property. The best advice I can give you is to contact the surveyor that did the work, and ask to talk to him. If he is a reputable surveyor, he will be more than willing to discuss the situation and try to get it right.

We are supposed to have a point at the north bank where ours starts. There was a pin there at one time, not there now.

Company that those surveyors work for I believe pulled the survey here in 92 and drew out the section we had cut from the other parcel in 95. Been raining all day, we have flooding going on. Sure everything back there is underwater now, with the water already high imagine some of their tape they tied to limbs has probably washed down the river, but those were probably traverse points like you said.

Will get back there over the weekend and see if I can find the corner on my neighbor, should be able to compare that to the gps coordinate off the county map data and it should be close.

[PotashRLS]

Interesting reading. I just happen to be a licensed land surveyor here in Wisconsin. Email me what you have William and I can take a look at it as Ethan is quite right, it is much easier to look at it than try to explain it in words here. While land law can differ from state to state, most things should be the same. PM me for my email if you are interested.

But as Steve B. is saying in Wyoming, fences play a roll but again land law in your state is going to govern. However fences are off all the time and are "presumed" the line by land owners. If the property wasn't surveyed when the fence went in, how did the land owner know where he was putting the fence? That is where adverse possession comes in and here in Wisconsin adverse possession must be won in court and awarded by a judge. People can't just "take" land by claiming adverse possession and land squatting is not legal either.

And if a surveyor in Wyoming or any other state is able to be "bought off", they could easily lose their license and incur civil liability. Land surveying is a licensed profession where here in Wisconsin we are governed by state statute.

[dbHunterNY]

yea i wouldn't go by ribbons. here they drive in official survey pins. hard to say they should've put pins in though and that you can but they'll only stick out of the ground a four inches. one of mine is actually in the neighbor's yard. it was that way when i bought the house. people tend to stretch their boundaries by little and little. now i don't care so much because it's not that much and i'm aware of where it is, but over time it's easy for documents and understanding of where the line is to get slightly skewed.

[wtnhunt]

Thanks for the replies. They got it straight where I had my main concern/question, Ethan was right about the traverse points. They came back again after they said they were going to be done and they set pins, the pins were very close to where I thought the lines were supposed to be.

[Ethan Givan]

Glad to hear they got it right.