Red Light Cameras

[Ravin R10 man]

Or your speedometer is wrong Martin. Most of those I have driven by have been fairly close within +- 2 mph.

.....................Guess with some of the young drivers on here, I prob. should clarify some of my comments...

Tongue in cheek here..William..I normally do 5 over and still get passed...the "go faster on yellow also was tongue in cheek...but if it turns yellow and im right on top of the intersection Im going thru rather than jam on brakes and get rear ended. Red ...Im stopping even though we can turn right on red..AFTER you stop to check for oncoming. Defensive driving is a MUST..like Strut said too many on the road trying to drive and do "other" things ...se a lot of intersection "eticate" forgot or just don't care..by the way..I never have had a traffic ticket with 40 yrs driving.

[The Bug House]

Here's my take.

I am staunchly against governmental intrusions into my constitutional liberties.

HOWEVER................. driving is a PRIVILEGE not a right.

I drive a commercial vehicle in a suburban commercial area environment 50 or so hours a week. The OVERWHELMING percentage of auto "accidents" I see are intersection accidents. I would take a rough guess that during the course of ONE working day I personally witness 20-30 stop sign and red light violations (including the famous left turn on red at the end of the green light).

I feel that it IS a case, in this instance, that if one is NOT breaking the law he doesn't get a ticket. Gassing on it to beat a yellow light is not only unsafe, it is a crapshoot with the law. You either ARE or you ARE NOT under the light when it turns red. Pretty simple. Your wheels either STOP COMPLETELY at a stop sign.......... or they DO NOT. If you gamble and lose I really have no pity. The very best scenario in non-stop violations is that the driver gets a ticket. Intersection "accidents" (I use quotes because they are not "accidents". They are stupidity and/or ignorance on somebody's part) are some of the most violent. How would you feel if you had to go through the rest of your life knowing you injured or killed another motorist or passenger because you couldn't wait the 1 or 2 or 3 minutes for the next green light ?

Well, I agree with your accident analysis, I drove a truck and held several delivery jobs across the NYC area. I've seen lots of accidents at intersections, I suppose it just gets to me that I'm a very safe driver and the record to prove it, and now I'm getting ticketed for it

[Strut10]

........... I'm a very safe driver and the record to prove it, and now I'm getting ticketed for it

Boils down to this: The light was red. You were either under it and/or through or you were not. It IS America. People choose to do what they wish for one reason or another. In doing so they also should acknowledge the risk of getting caught and pinched. The law is the law. Gray areas are few and far between.

[The Bug House]

Red Light Cameras

........... I'm a very safe driver and the record to prove it, and now I'm getting ticketed for it

Boils down to this: The light was red. You were either under it and/or through or you were not. It IS America. People choose to do what they wish for one reason or another. In doing so they also should acknowledge the risk of getting caught and pinched. The law is the law. Gray areas are few and far between.

I viewed the video and openly acknowledged that I rolled through the red light. My argument doesn't stem from the law .. It stems from the video surveillance used to issue a ticket. Adjam5 hit the nail on the head, despite the questionable legality of the system itll cost me much less just to mail the fine. BTW: the county does not notify the state or your insurance carrier of an infraction. Equally infuriating is the fact that the fine is limited to 50$ yet the county adds an additional 30$ surcharge.

[wtnhunt]

Boils down to this: The light was red. You were either under it and/or through or you were not. It IS America. People choose to do what they wish for one reason or another. In doing so they also should acknowledge the risk of getting caught and pinched. The law is the law. Gray areas are few and far between.

Yep. Pretty well all boils down to the fact that if a person does not break the law even if they do not agree with it then they really do not have to worry about it. If you break the law, know that you will probably face the consequences that go along with it.

To my knowledge there is nothing in the constitution that says you have a right to be exempt from traffic laws or how they are enforced or anything about infringements in regards to cameras used to make streets safer.

[The Bug House]

Red Light Cameras

I'm not in disagreement with the law itself, I don't like the fact that I was issued a fine by a surveillance system that has come into question and subsequently deemed unconstitutional by at least 3 different Judges. Because "The system" is essentially fixed so that it would cost me a lot more to fight it than it did to just pay it. Of course now photo/video of my vehicle will be stored by I don't know who, I don't know where, and I don't know for how long, used for unknown purposes in the future. Without my permission.

[The Bug House]

Red Light Cameras

The State I live in has no law regarding the use of traffic cameras, the State I work in has several laws specifically prohibiting the use of traffic cameras.

[wtnhunt]

Never heard of any states judges making those rulings prior to this. I would be a little curious as to the reasoning those judges deemed traffic cameras as unconstitutional and how exactly they came to those rulings, as to how they applied constitutional law to traffic cameras.

[VermontHunter]

They are installing these camera's all over here where I live ,, especially where they are building the new Walmart ... Most I have talked to weren't even aware that they were installed ..

Of course now photo/video of my vehicle will be stored by I don't know who, I don't know where, and I don't know for how long, used for unknown purposes in the future.

Bug, I wouldn't be surprised if they notify your insurance company, since this is considered a moving violation, and points can be attached to your license as well if they contact Vermont DMV ... Not saying this will happen, but it's not too far fetched.

Edited July 14, 2013 by VermontHunter

[wtnhunt]

Bug, I wouldn't be surprised if they notify your insurance company, since this is considered a moving violation, and points can be attached to your license as well if they contact Vermont DMV ... Not saying this will happen, but it's not too far fetched.

Insurance companies will find out about moving violations and they can and usually do adjust your rates accordingly. Fines are minute in relation to what we pay in insurance rates.

[smha6784]

Red Light Cameras

There is a major law suit going on in one of the areas I work about these red light and speeding cameras. The town stopped the use of the cameras and most surrounding areas did as well. It is a big deal in the news and it seems as if we may possibly get our money back for the tickets ( seriously doubt it). The reason is the money collected by the camera tickets was misappropriated and the schools and parks never saw a nickel, and of course corruption in the government yada yada yada... The funny thing was for about a month when the government was arguing in court tickets were still going out and in very very small print at the bottom it said this is not a fine payment is optional. What the **** ??? I know this cause I got one called and they said I didn't have to pay. We also have vans that ride around with license plate scanners looking for parking violators and such that will boot your vehicle, got one those nice and shiny yellow boots as well. All of the wonderful things that get the working man.

[The Bug House]

They are installing these camera's all over here where I live ,, especially where they are building the new Walmart ... Most I have talked to weren't even aware that they were installed ..

Of course now photo/video of my vehicle will be stored by I don't know who, I don't know where, and I don't know for how long, used for unknown purposes in the future.

Bug, I wouldn't be surprised if they notify your insurance company, since this is considered a moving violation, and points can be attached to your license as well if they contact Vermont DMV ... Not saying this will happen, but it's not too far fetched.

I figured the same, but the notice I got explicitly says that the State and insurance provider will not be notified. Seems convoluted!

[The Bug House]

Red Light Cameras

BTW Vt Hunter, where are they putting cameras up? Red light or speed cameras?

[The Bug House]

Never heard of any states judges making those rulings prior to this. I would be a little curious as to the reasoning those judges deemed traffic cameras as unconstitutional and how exactly they came to those rulings, as to how they applied constitutional law to traffic cameras.

I'll try and get some links up...

[Adjam5]

There is NO way for them to prove who was driving the vehicle. So they CANNOT assess points to a license. That is why it is all about revenue generation. Not safety. Points will make folks stop at lights and slow down. Not Cameras. Those are just for making money. Due process is not given on a red light cam ticket. It is telling you that you are guilty and have to pay. That is NOT how our justice system works. I know driving is a privilege, not a right. BUT...Laws and convictions still work the same way with traffic court. DUE PROCESS. If you show up to fight one, chances are they will throw it out/reduce it rather than waste the courts time if you dig in for the long haul and fight. BTW...if anyone has EZ-Pass or some sort of electronic toll collection. Sensors were installed along EVERY highway, roadway , bridge or tunnel for data collection of traffic. These same sensors can use the EZpass transponder to issue speeding tickets( EZ Pass' are addressable). Keep the EZ Pass or EZ Tag in the protective bag until you use it. It blocks the transponder from giving off a signal.

[VermontHunter]

I figured the same, but the notice I got explicitly says that the State and insurance provider will not be notified. Seems convoluted!

I Hope that is true, but we all know how our government is being operated ... Damn crooks.

Once a ticket is issued, and you have entered your plea, the fine is then filed with the DMV, so I don't understand how they wouldn't be notified in some way ...

BTW Vt Hunter, where are they putting cameras up? Red light or speed cameras?

We are getting a new Walmart here in St. Albans, so the have been doing some pretty big road work with NEW traffic lights, I noticed the cameras right off and asked about them, I was told they will be performing 3 duties, Speed, Red Light, and Public Safety monitoring ... whether this is true or not we will have to wait and see what happens.

[VermontHunter]

There is NO way for them to prove who was driving the vehicle. So they CANNOT assess points to a license. .

This is why they hold the registered owner of that vehicle responsible ....