Technology

[elkoholic]

It seems that from time to time we have debates on various advances in technology in the hunting world. At what point do we say, "enough is enough". If you have not read Mike Schoby's article (From The Editor) in Petersen's Hunting magazine check out this site: TrackingPoint: Is Technology the Future of Hunting? - Petersen's Hunting

Comments and thoughts?

In Jim Shockey's Stealth Cam commercial he states that deer have evolved, that they are smarter, but so have we. Hmmm....me thinks that although deer have adapted somewhat to human hunters, for the most part their life still revolves around food and security/thermal cover, and for a short time, their sex drive. Little has changed in their world except how human predators have used technological advances to make up for the decline in actual hunting skills.

Hmmmm.....Enough is Enough

[WStreblo]

Technology

I don't feel that an advancement in technology that allows a shooter, (notice I didn't say hunter) to take any game animal just by squeezing a trigger and allowing a computer to make the shot for them. Video games and hunting don't mix. I don't like it.

[FireStation46]

Well, you used technology to start the discussion. Progress is good. I would rather hunt in Goretex insulated camo after using a nice body wash, to hunt with my modern bow or gun. The option would to go unwashed in a loin cloth. We need not separate the hunting community into rabid camps that fight any one's hunting preference. As long as it is legal, any method is fine with me :-)

[Ravin R10 man]

I wouldn't want to go back to flintlock or a crude long bow..500+ yrd shots are possible these days, some things take the skill level backwards imo....they still have not come out with a cure for BUCK FEVER!...lol

[hoosierhunter]

I wouldn't want to go back to flintlock or a crude long bow..500+ yrd shots are possible these days, some things take the skill level backwards imo....they still have not come out with a cure for BUCK FEVER!...lol

You mean a lead sled from a blind.......

[hoosierhunter]

Technology

We might as well hunt from our cellphones at that point.

[Ultradog]

There was some technology being talked about here a few years ago where you could just set up a computer aimed and fired rifle, a video cam and do it all via satelite from your office desk.

MN put in a preemptive law that banned all future forays into that type of "hunting".

So unlike a tractor raffle, you Must be present to win.

Lot of techology out there already though. Marvelous bows, engineered bullets, sabots, range finders, scopes and as said above scent lock clothing and even things we take for granted today like climbing stands and camo.

Even things like game cams or fish/depth finders for fishing.

I don't know where it will end though. Maybe it wont.

Maybe freak hunters will take steroids so with new bows they can shoot out to 150 yards.

Like Bonds and Clemens they will have to have to have an asterisk by their record...

I do like to see B&C getting on the ball and setting some standards to qualify for the record book though.

A kid who was good with video games could easily put a hunting great like Larry Koller to shame with a rig like that. It wouldn't be right.

[LETMGROW]

I just got a new cell phone so people can call me and tell me when the deer are coming in my direction.

Here it is. Ain't it a beauty?

https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/?ui=2&ik=dccf1c672f&view=att&th=140f3eb86895cee0&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=1444371468456558592-1&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P-SG1wm-8Zs01rjQ7kCOOmW&sadet=1378772809898&sads=xVDWngDDraE6QEkaOHA95zyJycE

Lynn

[elkoholic]

Well, you used technology to start the discussion. Progress is good. I would rather hunt in Goretex insulated camo after using a nice body wash, to hunt with my modern bow or gun. The option would to go unwashed in a loin cloth. We need not separate the hunting community into rabid camps that fight any one's hunting preference. As long as it is legal, any method is fine with me :-)

The technology used to start this discussion is good in that it reaches the masses, which would be hard to do otherwise. Is it always good? Most certainly the answer is an emphatic; NO. Progress is not always good. A quick look at the current state of affairs in the United States (and the world) would surely show that "progress" is in the eye of the beholder and only a fool would say all progress is good. Every increase in the ease at which we achieve our "goals" simply turns us into softer, doughier, lumps of humanity. When it comes to separating the hunting community into rabid camps, there is always this fear that we as hunters can not have a discussion without ripping the fraternity apart and endangering the future of hunting, when in reality it is the opinion of the non-hunting community which will ultimately determine the fate of hunting. I also feel that the "if it is legal, it is okay" statement is a cop-out. Just because we can, does not mean that we should and just because it is legal, does not make it ethical. Most of us use technological advances to improve our chances or make us more comfortable during the hunt. Unfortunately, the prey we pursue do not have that option. They can not go home after the hunt, sit in the recliner and down a cold one. Sometime in the future, if we do not say, enough is enough, we will not even leave the recliner and I know there are already hunters downing a cold one during the hunt. As we strive to eliminate all variables and the result becomes certainty, then we will no longer be hunters. It is the means that makes the hunt, not the result, and the result does not justify the means. So, I guess that is my point of view. We have taken it far enough. Using another Jim Shockey saying, "when you are cold, wet and tired is when the hunt begins". I do not want to know the ending before I play out my part of the tale.

[fly]

Hunters include the 40 year old man in great shape that thinks all gun hunting is not sporting and wants it banned. The 27 year old that thinks crossbows should only be for the disabled, the 16 year old girl that wants to bag a deer with a bow but can't pull back the required weight, the 11 year old boy in a wheelchair that only has a few months to live and can barely pull a regular trigger, and wants more than anything to take a deer with his dad before he passes on.

Some people will ALWAYS be unethical hunters regardless of technology and I'd never be a proponent for hunting from a computer. However, technology puts a lot of people in the woods that would otherwise not be able to and for me that's a plus.

[Dawg]

Hunters include the 40 year old man in great shape that thinks all gun hunting is not sporting and wants it banned. The 27 year old that thinks crossbows should only be for the disabled, the 16 year old girl that wants to bag a deer with a bow but can't pull back the required weight, the 11 year old boy in a wheelchair that only has a few months to live and can barely pull a regular trigger, and wants more than anything to take a deer with his dad before he passes on.

Some people will ALWAYS be unethical hunters regardless of technology and I'd never be a proponent for hunting from a computer. However, technology puts a lot of people in the woods that would otherwise not be able to and for me that's a plus.

Well said.

[elkoholic]

However, technology puts a lot of people in the woods that would otherwise not be able to and for me that's a plus.

And, this is good! This is where progress is good, very good. Anytime technology allows someone to accomplish something they would otherwise be unable to, it can be good. On the other hand I still waiver on the thought that we should all be able to do everything equally, even if it takes technology to do it. Case in point; If I am too lazy or not motivated enough to put some time in at the target range to improve my shooting skills should I be able to use some technological advances to keep me on the same level as the guy next door who spends hours perfecting his skills. Yes, we can argue clean ethical kills are more likely, but if that is the only argument we can make, it is not a guarantee. For someone unable to draw a vertical bow a crossbow is a viable option in most states, more like shooting a firearm but still a close range option. My thinking here is that if the option is to build strength to be able to pull the required poundage than that should be the preferred, not taking the easy way out. The final results would be more rewarding. We are becoming a nation of wimps where the idea of working for something means nothing and.....oh I regress. Has all this "technology" made for a more fulfilling experience in the hunting world? We not only see better because of binoculars but we can get a better look with a spotting scope. Want to hear better, Walker's Game Ear (only brand I could think of). Judge distance, laser range finder (with angle compensation). Scout for game, trail cam. Sit on stand in a heated, scent containing, elevated enclosed stand with quiet open windows. The list goes on. Surely, enough is enough. No? Maybe? Oh well, time to head to bed because I have to get up early to chase elk. Think about it. If we are going to let a computer chip do our work for us....are we really hunting?

[redkneck]

Hunters include the 40 year old man in great shape that thinks all gun hunting is not sporting and wants it banned. The 27 year old that thinks crossbows should only be for the disabled, the 16 year old girl that wants to bag a deer with a bow but can't pull back the required weight, the 11 year old boy in a wheelchair that only has a few months to live and can barely pull a regular trigger, and wants more than anything to take a deer with his dad before he passes on.

Some people will ALWAYS be unethical hunters regardless of technology and I'd never be a proponent for hunting from a computer. However, technology puts a lot of people in the woods that would otherwise not be able to and for me that's a plus.

That's good stuff right there Fly! Almost all of us take the easy way out. But that doesn't mean it's an easy hunt. If you pull a compound you got it easier than the guy with a long bow, if you shoot a crossbow, you got it easier than the guy with the compound, the guy with a shotgun has it easier than him, rifle, ML, scoped rifle, etc, etc.

Personally I'd love to have one of those rifles, dont ask me what the crap I would do with it, bc I mostly bow hunt, yes with a compound bc that's about where I feel the most challeneged without the work required of a long bow, which I do own, but I'm just too stinking lazy to work that hard lol. I like it a little easy, but not too easy!

[wtnhunt]

Hunters include the 40 year old man in great shape that thinks all gun hunting is not sporting and wants it banned. The 27 year old that thinks crossbows should only be for the disabled, the 16 year old girl that wants to bag a deer with a bow but can't pull back the required weight, the 11 year old boy in a wheelchair that only has a few months to live and can barely pull a regular trigger, and wants more than anything to take a deer with his dad before he passes on.

Some people will ALWAYS be unethical hunters regardless of technology and I'd never be a proponent for hunting from a computer. However, technology puts a lot of people in the woods that would otherwise not be able to and for me that's a plus.

Good reply here Frank. Think most of us probably take advantage and maybe even take for granted some technological advances that may put things in our favor from time to time and also agree with those who said we need to support other hunters and getting more hunters out there. If you really wanted to be completely free of technology, you would not look at aerial maps or weather forecasts either. Things can certainly go from one extreme to the other.

Yep, things can obviously go to an extreme:

There was some technology being talked about here a few years ago where you could just set up a computer aimed and fired rifle, a video cam and do it all via satelite from your office desk.

MN put in a preemptive law that banned all future forays into that type of "hunting".

That was a topic here before http://www.realtree.com/forums/lounge/54023-remote-control-radio-hunting-news-me.html. Pretty sure there had been more discussions here on the topic, will look again later when I get a chance. When you take the person completely out of the equation and they sit at a computer, that in my opinion becomes nothing more than a video game and in no way hunting at all.

On the rifle in the link, not something I believe should be used for hunting but looks pretty cool, was curious about the kind of price tag? Would be fun to shoot for the fun of it, but who on earth would want to drag the thing around.

[Rhino]

Although I don't have a problem with a lot of the technology that's been developed in recent years, I do with this tracking point technology that allows anyone to shoot out to 1,000 yards. Dang...why not just mount the blasted rifle on a computerized tripod where you can aim it from a heated house or camp using your laptop or desktop to fire it out to 1,000 yards.

Granted, many places you can't see 500 yards much less 1,000 but where you can this goes over the top IMO.

I agree with Shockey that deer have evolved and they are better at hunter evasion. I can recall the old days when deer hardly ever looked up. Now it's common for deer to look up...heck that's where most of the predators (US) are. However, like you said elkoholic, their life still revolves around food, security, and for a short time their sex drive. For a short period of time the dumbest deer in the woods is a sex crazed buck in rut. That hasn't changed.

Y'all don't need to worry about B&C adding this to their fair chase rules violation. They did it for trail cams that send real time pics to your computer. This is a no brainer. I'd also bet at least some states would outlaw this too!

BTW...I also agree with elkoholic's statement regarding the overall decline in actual hunting skills for the average hunter. However, I don't believe current technology has given a hunter with lesser hunting skills any advantage over a skilled hunter that doesn't rely a lot on the current technology. There's a lot of so called technological advances that hook the hunter for profit rather than aid the hunter in bagging the game.

[fly]

Good luck on your elk hunt elcoholic! I totally see your point and on a certain level agree with everything you said. It's just complicated because people differ so much. Not just in ability either. Sure, I practice with my compound until I can ethically place my arrows in the vitals at whatever yardage I'm able to do so. It takes me many many hours each season to get "ethically good" arrow groups out to 40 yards. However, I have a job that allows me plenty of time to practice. Perhaps there is a guy out there that doesn't have a lot of time this season because his mother has been ill, he works 70 hours each week, and is a single dad. Why not provide him with the option to hunt with a crossbow where he can get "ethically good" bolt groupings out to 40 yards in an hour or two? If the issue is herd management then cut the number of tags, and allow hunters a respectable amount of freedom as to the technology they choose to go with.

William is right about extremes.... finding a balance is not always easy because for every single dad out there - there is always Mr. Jack Wagon that allows the animal to walk an additional 50 yards just to see if he can make a 100 yard crossbow shot.

I guess I'm just more sympathetic to the single dad than I am worried about passing laws that Jack will likely not follow anyway.

[elkoholic]

The elk hunting has been little more than exercise so far, but, dang it was good exercise. The purpose of this post was to get us hunters thinking. We need to be more involved in what is legal and ethical. It is hard to get a consensus on right and wrong in the hunting world when it comes to technology, but I would prefer that as hunters we get to make the decisions and not the court system or the non-hunting majority. No need to be chucking spears, but there is no need to be plugged in to the matrix ether. We are getting there.

[sskybnd]

That's good stuff right there Fly! Almost all of us take the easy way out. But that doesn't mean it's an easy hunt. If you pull a compound you got it easier than the guy with a long bow, if you shoot a crossbow, you got it easier than the guy with the compound, the guy with a shotgun has it easier than him, rifle, ML, scoped rifle, etc, etc.

Personally I'd love to have one of those rifles, dont ask me what the crap I would do with it, bc I mostly bow hunt, yes with a compound bc that's about where I feel the most challeneged without the work required of a long bow, which I do own, but I'm just too stinking lazy to work that hard lol. I like it a little easy, but not too easy!

yes technology is advancing, in almost all of hunting, my first set of camo looked like a pine tree, now look at all the patterns out there.we can see farther, shoot farther, my fisrt stand was only 8 ft off they ground now its 20 or better, but all the technlolgy cant make a peson a hunter, it takes time afiend and years of the ups and downs learning how to hunt to be a hunter. and i too mostly bow hunt, but do use what technolgy i can to help me, in stead of shooting flint i use a shwacker, instead of trying to guess what yardage its at i use a range finder, the good techonogy im for, the computer stuff im not,