RangerClay Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Kids are also not taught respect anymore because of the lack of maturity of many parents. These are the problems that should be addressed. Amen Brother!!! I forgot to mention that point. . Now here is another spin on bullying that a few ...unfortunately.... see. Eric Harris and Dyland Klebolt, the shooters of Columbine were the victims of bullies. The uproar for gun control overshadowed that these two boys were bullied almost everyday in the cafeteria, that is why the cafeteria was thier primary target. Almost everyday the two boys were sprayed with ketchup and mustard by "jocks" because of the way they were dressed. Now the teachers who monitored the cafeteria had a "learn to deal with it attitude" and did little about what was going on. From what I am told by someone who has seen the video tapes of the Columbine cafeteria, there was one day that the two boys laughed at being embarassed in front of everyone. And that was the day before their rampage. The bully campaign that is is being waged may not be for your kids John because you are a good parent. But if it educates just one kid not to be a bully, lets them know they can get help, that they don't need to act out with suicide or violence if they are bullied, then it is a success. The days of "suck it up buttercup" just don't work anymore. Society has simply changed too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 things today are much worse than they were when i grew up. we all called each other names. but, we also knew limits. we all went to church, prayed, and were families. todays kids have their families on the internet. they watch outrageous crap, like miley syrus, doing horrible stuff we'd never see when i was young. drugs and porn are everywhere and adult leadership is dwindling. put god back in america and the 10 commandments back in our leadership, and the world here will be a better place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 According to this article about the mother being arrested today on unrelated charges the sheriff made the comment "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree". Mom of girl charged in Florida bullying suicide arrested on child abuse charges - U.S. News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midwesthunter815 Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Thanks Rhino. Was going to post about this as well. Goes back to what I said before, some parents these are not at all suited to raise a child. Forgive me for a harsh thought but cant we take the kids from people like these and sterilize the parents. We don't need any more crazies these days...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted October 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 I personally have no issues going back to forced sterilization. Yeah I know, I go against my support of the Bill of rights lol. Some folks are clearly to stupid to be allowed to reproduce though lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WStreblo Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 I personally have no issues going back to forced sterilization. Yeah I know, I go against my support of the Bill of rights lol. Some folks are clearly to stupid to be allowed to reproduce though lol. Man there are many things I could say right now that would get me in trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 I may get flamed for this but here it goes anyhow ... I believe parents have become weak when it comes to their kids, JMHO. When I was growing up and in high school I had 3 guys that loved to torment me on a daily basis, and when I say torment I mean physically and mentally. Teachers were of NO help as well as counselors, and I still believe to this day it was because I didn't fit into what we call the upper class status. Well one day I can home from school with torn clothes my dad worked hard to get, lets just say he wasn't a happy camper with me after I told my story of NO help from school officials, so he personally went to the school the next day with me in tow, lets just say it wasn't pretty but he then understood what I was facing. When we got home he set me down and in little words as possible told that I wasn't to come home in that kind of disarray again or I would receive the same from him. He told me to pick the biggest and meanest one of the bunch and inform him that if this was what was going to happen every time they felt like the need to pick on someone, that I was going to have a go at him until I won, the kid looked at me and said but there's 3 of us and only one of you, I then in turn informed him that they couldn't all be together all of the time. Well, guess what they weren't and each of them earned there due from me ... 2 of these guys are now good friends of mine today. So for the parents out there that tell their kids NOT to defend themselves, I think you are part of the problem, a good old fist fight just might be the answer, so stop raising your kids to be weak. Because weather you believe it or not turning the other cheek isn't always the right answer, it's just knowing when to do so. Again, this just my observation with society today.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 As I read through the posts here a great feeling of sadness creeps into my whole body. There has always been and always will be, those who feel the need to degrade, both physically and mentally, others who are weaker or less fortunate than themselves. Poor self esteem gets raised by putting others down. As the general populace becomes jaded by the prevalent "entertainment" options available in our ever increasing digital world there will continue to be a rise in such events and the news media is helping to drive this by sensationalizing these tragedies. Most of the bullies come from dysfunctional families where drugs, alcohol and a lack of self esteem are a driving factor. Social media makes it easier to attack someone, often anonymously, and malicious attacks are not covered under freedom of speech. Verbal assaults are misdemeanors punishable by fines and/or jail time. The Realtree forums is social media and as such should stand as an example to others that proper monitoring (thank you moderators for doing an excellent job) can reduce or stop unneeded negative discourse. On the other hand, some people are just plain thin skinned and get their undies in a bunch way too easily, and there have been hurt feelings here as well. A lot of what is happening in our country has a lot to do with the collapse of the family unit. Mostly due to people having children who should have been sterilized rather than allowed to procreate. The ACLU would surely disagree but in my opinion that is one of the most disturbing organizations to ever come into existence. If one who is being bullied gets pushed to the brink and commits suicide or mass murders, is the bully to blame? I say no, but they are an accessory and should be punished as such. The real question is, what can be done? Any adult who is aware of what is going on should do everything they can to end the bullying and be held accountable. Every adult and child should be responsible for their actions and disciplined as required. In life there are three things that are very important, choices, consequences, and responsibilities. We are offered many choices in life and with those choices come certain consequences, be they good or bad, that we need to accept responsibility for. Almost every animal species will pick on the weak of their kind, but you would think us humans would be able to rise above that. The question of whether we are inherently evil or inherently good comes to mind. I believe we are inherently evil, but most of us are able to overcome that with human kindness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerClay Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) So for the parents out there that tell their kids NOT to defend themselves, I think you are part of the problem, a good old fist fight just might be the answer, so stop raising your kids to be weak. Because weather you believe it or not turning the other cheek isn't always the right answer, it's just knowing when to do so. Again, this just my observation with society today.. Ok, I'll bite. So what you are saying is we should teach our children to break the law. Assault is assault whether you are the victim or the bully. Do you really believe that promoting the "Thug Mentality" will fix the problem? What if another parent lurking on here reads this, tells their kids to beat up their bully and winds up in a hospital. Could you live with that Luke? We had a student here at my school stand up to a bully about 13-14 years ago. He was beat up so bad he lost vision in one eye. You can say stand up to a bully but there is little chance of that working for everyone if not anyone. Here is a neat idea. Have the bully arrested. Bullying stops and everyone is happy. Edited October 21, 2013 by RangerClay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Dunno about some of this, but I have told my kids they better never start a fight. I have told them too though that they can as a last resort defend themselves. Maybe I am misreading, but kinda looks like some of the replies here are condoning some expectation of a kid not to fight back when they are getting the crap beat out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 A lot of bullies are victims of abuse so blame can be pushed on the 12 year old kid, the kids parents, or even the parents of the kid that got bullied for not being more involved. As the father of an 11 year old son and a 12 year old daughter that DO NOT have cell phones or a FB account my parental philosophy is to be in their business as much as possible and get to know the friends and even the parents. I also know my kids well, and when they don't act normal I find out what is wrong. I'll allow my kids to resolve minor issues but when a bigger kid hit my son and other kids in school I stepped in. The bully's parents moved him to a different school after being confronted by the school and now my son doesn't dread going to school as he did when he was being bullied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerClay Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) Dunno about some of this, but I have told my kids they better never start a fight. I have told them too though that they can as a last resort defend themselves. Maybe I am misreading, but kinda looks like some of the replies here are condoning some expectation of a kid not to fight back when they are getting the crap beat out of them. Good point William. I don't want my point to be confused. I would never tell my kid or any kid to not defend themselves. But in Luke's story he confronted his bullies and said he would get them back when they were separated. That is not self defense but going on the offensive. Fly has the right idea. Get the authorities involved and solve the problem. Remember even if a kid threatens to hit your child, that's assault under the law, and you can have the police deal with it. Edited October 21, 2013 by RangerClay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted October 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 I guess I'm just out of touch. Used to if you were to call the cops in on a situation like that you would sure enough be bullied from then on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbHunterNY Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 I know Luke was just a good man telling his case. I think he may have just been trying to drive home the point that any individual is worth his/her taking a stand if there's no other options. I think his dad was too demanding. however, he stated telling others like dad and faculty didn't help. that said waiting for the bullies to be alone and then get back at them is the classic example of how dangerous gangs of a community do their best. what he did happened to work and I respect his feeling of self worth for taking a stand. gang violence in that manner never seems to call it quits though, and I wouldn't encourage that unless you were darn sure of what might happen after. bottom line is nobody should be bullied. the bullied should tell parent's or whomever authority figure applies; parent's, school faculty, police, etc. 90% of the time that solves it. if nothing changes after that the bullied has every right to defend themselves with as little equal violence or treatment to solve the problem as possible. then the bullied must be able to plead their case and realize there's consequences even if they aren't applied to the one(s) doing the original bullying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudu88 Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Bullying..... What say you? Interesting thread. I think that the problem is far greater than parents not parenting or being politically correct. I mean just watch the news. People keep looking to place blame and no one wants to accept responsibility. We are a nation of people that don't care about our neighbors. That's not a parenting problem that's a problem with society. How as parents can we expect to raise our kids to respect other people when there is no respect in return? The fact of the matter is that until our society realizes that it wasn't that long ago that it was ok to be kind to one another and that it isn't all about the individual then nothing will change and it will only get worse. Bullying isn't a teenage problem. It happens to adults all the time. It's just called different names. Racism, anti-religious/2nd amendment/hunting ect. The fact is, is that we as a people cannot have a civil conversation about our differences. How can we expect our children to come to terms with each other's difference when we cannot come to terms with our own?? For example I am a democrat. Let's see how much bullying I experience in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Just so everyone understands " I DON"T condone starting fights" but I don't expect anyone to take a beating either. And Joe just to clear up something ,, I didn't confront the guys as you suggested I was once again cornered by these individuals, this is when I stated what was going to happen in the future ... As for getting any help from the teachers and counselors, like I said they were absolutely worthless. And defending yourself in a fight is called self defense last time I checked the law, this applies to minors or adults alike when confronted with bodily harm ... And to just be sure everyone knows and it's clear ,, fighting of any sort is a very last resort in my book, but be sure I will definitely defend myself, as I'm sure most if not every one of you would do the same, so why would I expect any less from a school kid that's being bullied ... just doesn't make sense to me.... I respect every ones opinion on this topic, we aren't robots and have different views this just happens to be mine on this certain topic. So PLEASE don't think any less of me, because I sure don't of any of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessicaRae Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 I'm a bit late to comment on this post but I will any ways. I was picked on bulloed what ever you wanna call it. None of the girls werw suspended or kicked out of school I didn't kill myself (obviously) we have made an overly sensitive society I find it ridiculous. Take your kid to a therapist or better yet tell them to MAN UP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerClay Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 And Joe just to clear up something ,, I didn't confront the guys as you suggested I was once again cornered by these individuals, this is when I stated what was going to happen in the future ... As for getting any help from the teachers and counselors, like I said they were absolutely worthless. And defending yourself in a fight is called self defense last time I checked the law, this applies to minors or adults alike when confronted with bodily harm ... . Oh I understand. I'm just pointing out that when you said you would get them when they were separated is not self defense. It's a shame that your school was not able to help you. That is the main reason why there is such a big push in schools stop this. I'm not sure if this movement is nationwide but here in NY a teacher or school can be held liable for not helping a student who complains of being bullied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 As the father of an 11 year old son and a 12 year old daughter that DO NOT have cell phones or a FB account my parental philosophy is to be in their business as much as possible and get to know the friends and even the parents. I also know my kids well, and when they don't act normal I find out what is wrong. I'll allow my kids to resolve minor issues but when a bigger kid hit my son and other kids in school I stepped in. The bully's parents moved him to a different school after being confronted by the school and now my son doesn't dread going to school as he did when he was being bullied. We are in the minority Frank. My oldest 17, is the only one of my kids that has a phone and it is not a smart phone. My 12 and 7 year old daughters have no need and we will not cave to the mentality that "all the other kids have them", that that somehow justifies a "need". Seems to be a status symbol of sorts for many. A lot of "parents" these days are afraid to be anything more than their kids best friends. And YES that does become a societal problem. What ever happened with parents guiding and teaching their children. Guess it has become too easy to hand them a smartphone or other device and let them raise themselves on u tube vids. I understand the need for some kids involved in athletics and other activities to have a phone but most kids out there really do not need them. Just my honest opinion but think it is playing a part in decay of society. Then you look at what it does to interaction. When you take your middle schooler to a school activity such as a dance or to the skating rink and all the kids are sitting with their phones or devices messaging each other when they could be talking to them face to face it seems to me that there may be an issue. Far a Facebook, won't be letting my younger children get on it. We had to take our 12 year old daughter's tablet away from her early on in the summer and she has not gotten it back. Some might think it harsh. She did things we specifically told her not to, gave out information to perfect stranger on instagram. thankful we found out. Oh I understand. I'm just pointing out that when you said you would get them when they were separated is not self defense. It's a shame that your school was not able to help you. That is the main reason why there is such a big push in schools stop this. I'm not sure if this movement is nationwide but here in NY a teacher or school can be held liable for not helping a student who complains of being bullied. Push here for a cyber bullying informational meeting at the high school. Unfortunately with 4 children the timing does not work for us to make it. School system seems to be trying to do what they can here. Good to see they are being somewhat proactive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 My twins have smart phones but not on FB. They're 14 now and got phones at 12. I totally agree with not caving to the "everybody else has them" mentality, but I've always let my girls get what they have earned by making the grade, but those devices can quickly be taken away if I see that they are either being bullied or get word they are engaging in any type of mean behavior. So far has not been the case thank goodness. I'm reading a lot of good responses and some are eye opening here for sure. My op probably sounded cold blooded about free speech and all, but just seems like if I log onto the forums and William is hateful to me and I've had a bad time, wife left, dog ran over, lost job whatever and his online meanness pushes me too far and I pull the trigger, I still dont think he should be accountable for my death just because he's being a db. But I can also see reading some posts how this goes way further than just posting some hateful comments. I see yesterday we had another school shooting, haven't seen much yet on the shooter and motives, but no doubt there's a huge issue that has to be dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 My twins have smart phones but not on FB. They're 14 now and got phones at 12. I totally agree with not caving to the "everybody else has them" mentality, but I've always let my girls get what they have earned by making the grade, but those devices can quickly be taken away if I see that they are either being bullied or get word they are engaging in any type of mean behavior. So far has not been the case thank goodness. We thought we knew about our daughter too John, unfortunately kids will be kids and sometimes you can do the best you can and one lousy bad influence gives your kid this lame brained idea and they are too naive to realize how dangerous it is what they are doing. We thought the kid that spent the night here was a good kid, parents are in church and the kid seemed sweet. Our daughter has spent the night at her house and she has been here numerous times. We have talked with her mother quite a bit. Without going into all the details it turned out that this other girl was a habitual liar and she got our daughter mixed up in her lies and got her into doing things we thought she knew better than to do. Our daughter is a straight A student she asks to go to church and we really did not think we needed to watch over her shoulder constantly, cannot tell you how let down we were. This other little girl when her mother was told about what she had done seemed to not be too concerned. That kid was right back on the internet that week despite our warnings to her mother. She has since gotten into all kinds of trouble and had been removed from her home. I'm reading a lot of good responses and some are eye opening here for sure. My op probably sounded cold blooded about free speech and all, but just seems like if I log onto the forums and William is hateful to me and I've had a bad time, wife left, dog ran over, lost job whatever and his online meanness pushes me too far and I pull the trigger, I still dont think he should be accountable for my death just because he's being a db. But I can also see reading some posts how this goes way further than just posting some hateful comments. I see yesterday we had another school shooting, haven't seen much yet on the shooter and motives, but no doubt there's a huge issue that has to be dealt with. Ummm, yeah no doubt and to add to that people read things wrong on the internet. Happens right here on these very forums, you cannot read intention or emotion through the internet despite emoticons. But even still it would seem that some extreme cases that if it is clear that bullies had intentions of causing harm to their victim that should warrant action against them. Since you used me as an example, if I knowingly egged you on to the point you harmed yourself I should be held accountable for that. Just my opinion, lack of accountability these days is part of the problem with society, too easy to lay off blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 See that's where I disagree. No different than a new girl at a new school, came with problems from her old one, meets a guy that she thinks loves her, he has sex with her, dumps her, posts about it on FB, and she kills herself. No doubt the guy should have the **** beat out of him, but should he be accountable to what is tantamount to murder? I say know bc there was no intent there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 See that's where I disagree. No different than a new girl at a new school, came with problems from her old one, meets a guy that she thinks loves her, he has sex with her, dumps her, posts about it on FB, and she kills herself. No doubt the guy should have the **** beat out of him, but should he be accountable to what is tantamount to murder? I say know bc there was no intent there. Just my perspective but that situation is not exactly the same in my opinion. I actually agree with what you are saying with your example above, but I think there is a difference in that and a person willingly and knowingly pushing a person over the edge. The db who unintentionally pushes another over the edge IS different in my opinion than those who have intentions of causing another harm. If a person knows another is on the verge of suicide and they deliberately attack them and or cause/spread malicious information about them knowing it will drive them over then YES I do believe that person should be held accountable in some way. Guess another way to look at it would be if you were with a person saying they wanted to kill themself. You give them the gun and tell them go for it, should you be held accountable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 If a person knows another is on the verge of suicide and they deliberately attack them and or cause/spread malicious information about them knowing it will drive them over then YES I do believe that person should be held accountable in some way. I agree with you here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Oh I understand. I'm just pointing out that when you said you would get them when they were separated is not self defense. It's a shame that your school was not able to help you. That is the main reason why there is such a big push in schools stop this. I'm not sure if this movement is nationwide but here in NY a teacher or school can be held liable for not helping a student who complains of being bullied. We are good my friend ,, and on the same page for the most part .. and yes the schools here are working hard on this very topic which is good to see. Schools today are nothing like when I went to school, I wouldn't want your job, seems like your damned if you do and damned if you don't .. I do hold teachers in high regard for what they deal with on a daily basis ... I have nothing but the upmost respect for you my friend ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.