redkneck Posted December 28, 2013 Report Share Posted December 28, 2013 So maybe Shaun, Lynn, or somebody can lend advice. 06 Hyundai Tiburon, took out for a short trip came back home and I went out a fewhours later and it turns over but won't even fire a bit. I did get a cel the day before, I scanned it and came up with P0016 crank/cam sensors out of time. So.... I pulled a plug wire and verified it is firing, almost acts like a dead fuel pump, but the stupid thing has no test port. Would a crank or cam sensor get so bad it would let it fire but not hit? Reckon the stupid thing jumped time when I killed it? Was running fine at idle when I parked it. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 28, 2013 Report Share Posted December 28, 2013 Dunno about the Hyundai John. Either fuel or ignition, that you already know though, sounds like you ruled out ignition. One thing i do know, don't trust the parts store "mechanics". Christina broke down in my 3/4 ton truck at night a month or so ago. Figured the cap and rotor were bad and went to pick them up. Thing would roll and act like it wanted to fire but wouldn't, smelled of fuel like it was flooded. Parts store guy tried to convince me it was probably a module on the side of the distributor. Cap and rotor it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted December 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2013 Yeah, I don't trust parts swappers either, I like knowing what's bad and replacing rather than have folks guess and charge me for it. You're right, it's either spark or fuel..... or the timing in fact jumped a tooth somehow when I killed it and is so bad out it won't crank now. I doubt that's the problem but can't be ruled out. I'll have to get back on it after this rain. Hate to tow it to the dealer for some little crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry264 Posted December 28, 2013 Report Share Posted December 28, 2013 redkneck, almost figured a broken cam belt which usually causes a lot of valve damage if it's an interference engine, but after looking at hyundaiforums.com (search your fault code #), it could be a couple other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted December 28, 2013 Report Share Posted December 28, 2013 You could have a bad cam sensor. You could have spark but no signal to the fuel injectors. The fuel pressure could be at spec. but if the injector doesn't get a signal it will not open. You can try spraying some starting fluid into the hose leading from the air filter to the engine and see if it fires up. Use this sparingly though. Severe damage can result from drowning an engine in either. There are several other sensors which can cause a no start and of course the engine control computer could have died. A high end scan tool should reveal whether you are getting a crank signal and an injector pulse with reading. These can also be graphed with the proper equipment. There are also tools available called Noid Lights which hook directly to an injector connector. These lights will flash when the engine turns over and there is a voltage signal to the injector. If it doesn't flash there is no signal. Then you have to follow specific steps to determine why. Just throwing parts at something can be costly and frustrating. You might be better off taking it to the dealer where they are schooled in these systems. Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted December 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Yeah I may have to Lynn. I don't have a scope to see if I'm getting a wave form off the can and crank sensors. Hate taking anything to the dealers! Also hate taking anything to most shops lol. Oh well it's either that or fix it myself or let it sit there lol. I'll give it another day and see if it heals itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 I'll give it another day and see if it heals itself Let us know if that approach works. Never had any luck myself with"self healing". lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted December 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 Lol. Took a gamble and replaced crank sensor seventy bucks blown. Crap I hate to pull the timing chain cover on a fwd car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 (edited) Lol. Took a gamble and replaced crank sensor seventy bucks blown. Crap I hate to pull the timing chain cover on a fwd car. That $70 could have covered a diagnosis charge at most shops. I wouldn't think the crank sensor was at fault because if you have spark at the plug the crank sensor is working. Did you try the starting fluid? IMO, it is a little premature to pull the timing cover. Does the engine have compression or does it spin over freely like there were no plugs in it? Lynn Edited December 31, 2013 by LETMGROW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry264 Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 You really should check out hyundaiforum.com Lots of info there, like=POO16 Check Engine Light Problem Solution The P0016 code is a discrepancy between the camshaft and crankshaft timing. This code is thrown for a few reasons. Go through this diagnostic procedure and you will probably identify the problem: 1. Check your timing belt. Install a compression tester to cyl #1 (furthest cyl left when looking at the engine from the front) and bar the engine over. When you begin to develop compression on the guage, you know you are approaching TDC. Bar over until the mark is lined up with "T" on the lower timing belt cover timing marks and stop. Then, pull the upper belt cover (four sleeved M6 bolts/10mm heads) and ensure that you can see the red timing mark through the hole at 12 o'clock on the camshaft gear. If you can see red, then you are close on the timing. However, if you have removed the camshaft gear recently or replaced the timing belt recently, you need to check that the locator pin on the camshaft gear is not bent. This can cause you to be 1/2 a tooth off, and can lead to catastrophic engine failure if the pin snaps. Loosen the timing belt and remove the bolt holding the camshaft gear and inspect it to ensure it is straight. If it is straight, then reassemble. If it is bent, that is your problem. Replace the pin and clear codes. The pin bends easily when you torque either the camshaft gear or balancer pulley. If the pin is OK or you have not changed the timing belt, removed the cam gear or balancer pulley, then check.... 2. The Oil Control Valve. All Huyndai engines from 2004 on have CVVT (constant variable valve timing). The oil control valve is located on the front of the engine just above the temp. sending unit. Pull the OCV and let it cool to room temp. Once it is cool, take your fluke meter and test resistance across the two pins. It should read from 6.7 ohms to 7.9 ohms. If it reads outside of those specs, replace it. If it passes the resistance test, then take your test leads and connect it to your battery (not polar specific). If the valve fails to engage, then replace it. This should cost about $160-$180 and is easily removed as it is only held in by one M6/10mm bolt. Pull straight out once bolt is removed and electrical connector is removed. If it passes both tests, then reinstall it. Between the timing and OCV, you should find the problem. If you don't, then check the connection to the OCV. If it is damaged, then you will need to replace the connector. If your ECM is throwing the P0016 code, than the above steps will most likely expose the problem. It should either be a timing belt allignment issue, a bent locator pin, or a bad OCV. Good Luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted December 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Thank you Terry! I'll be reading this tonight and tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted January 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 OK, here's my diagnosis. Pulled upper timing chain cover, and belt intact..... but... it will not roll the cam as the crank rolls. I can feel the teeth skipping over the crank pulley, in other words when I killed the car and later restarted it, it just stripped the teeth off the belt at the crank pulley. What the chance the motor is still ok? I'm hoping with the teeth shot on the belt at the crank pulley then maybe if it tried to shove a piston against a valve any then it just would slip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry264 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Not good news redkneck,,,,I'd go by the condition of the rest of the vehicle to determine if it's worth another engine, because that one is lunched. Sorry about your luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted January 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Yeah I'm prob at least looking at head work plus the belt installation. I even ate my black eyed peas today for luck lol. That's just my luck though. My own fault, I should have studied up on the maintenance of the car when I picked it up last spring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 The cylinder head can be repaired. Probably several new valves, possibly a guide or two. You never know until the head is off and stripped. Remans should be available. If you need something PM me. Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted January 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Thanks Lynn. No compression on all four. I think I'm gonna pick up a used engine at the junkyard for 700 and just put a new timing set and water pump on it. My fear is on the head swap that I'll bolt it up only to discover tiny fractures to a piston that weren't visible to the eye, then I'd be back at square one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Hate to hear that John. Sounds about how my luck seems to go. Hope you figure out a fix that does not end up costing too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted January 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Yeah it sux, plus too dang cold to work on it without a heated garage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Thanks Lynn. No compression on all four. I think I'm gonna pick up a used engine at the junkyard for 700 and just put a new timing set and water pump on it. My fear is on the head swap that I'll bolt it up only to discover tiny fractures to a piston that weren't visible to the eye, then I'd be back at square one. What type warranty is offered with the used engine? The reason I ask is how do you know the same thing that has happened to yours couldn't have happened to the one you are buying at one time? It might be ready to toss it's cookies. Frankly I don't trust the junkies. They can and will tell you anything they want just to sell a part. They love to lie about mileage on a part. I have installed used engines but don't buy them. I tell a customer: "You buy the engine and have it sent to my shop. I'll put it in. If it knocks, skips, leaks or burns oil or anti-freeze or blows up, I don't want to hear it. Go back to the junk yard and work it out with them. It is your engine you bought from someone else. I'll replace it but you will pay me again. Or, you can take it somewhere else". I will guarantee my work but not someone else's parts. I just look stupid! Good Luck, Lynn Edited January 4, 2014 by LETMGROW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted January 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 90 days, engine was supposedly cranked and ran ok, car wrecked. It will get a fresh timing belt, water pump, seals, gaskets (cam seal, valve cover etc) idle pulley tensioner. I understand the risk of a used engine but I'm not putting an arm and a leg in a for thousand dollar car. Well see how it goes from here lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted January 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 You might be a redneck if........ Wait for it........ Wait.......... You have an engine hanging out of your attic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Looks like something I might have done before getting the tractor with a loader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted January 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Gotta do what you gotta do! Bad thing is that I thought I'd just roll the car back and drop the engine, but didn't think about having to pull ball joints and tie rods to get the CV's out, now gotta reinstall that crap to roll the dang thing back. Too stinking cold now though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeramie Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yep, you have a CHORE now! I bought a Kia Optima, got it really cheap, to commute. LIked the car.... briefly. At 64k miles the timing belt had broke and the dealership patched it back together to move it. A month later I had BAD problems. Same exact fault code. I had to replace the head and two spark plugs. The dealership had actually JB welded a plug in the head so that it would fire. The plug had been hit by the piston causing some serious damage to the piston and shot the plug out of the head. They had to JB weld in a shorter plug! Right after I found all of the trouble the dealership closed. I didnt have a chance to do anything about it. I ended up putting a refurb head on it out of Texas. I changed two pistons and got it going fairly good. It needed more work but it was at least running. I drove it very, very briefly and then traded it off. The samesman was happy to make the sale and told me it would go straight to auction anyway so not to sweat any problems. That was my first and last stint with KIA and or its relatives. After working on it I found in the manual that the timing belt needs changed at 60k miles...... nice. Lesson ended up costing me about $1k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun_300 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Aw man that sucks John! As soon as I read that code in your initial post my first thoughts were broken timing belt or failed timing tensioner, both resulting in the same destruction unfortunately! Hope the install goes smooth. Make sure you put a new timing belt, tensioner and waterpump in the new engine before you put it in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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