Chrud Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- NASCAR has announced that rule infractions this past weekend at Las Vegas Motor Speedway have resulted in the suspension of three Nextel Cup Series crew chiefs. The No. 48 Chevrolet team received three penalties, due to the car's roof height being too low in post-race inspection -- a violation of Section 12-4-A of the Cup series' rule book (actions detrimental to stock car racing) and Section 12-4-Q (car, car parts, components, and/or equipment used that do not conform to NASCAR rules). A penalty of 25 driver points dropped Jimmie Johnson -- the race winner at Las Vegas -- back to second place in the standings, 10 behind reigning series champion Kurt Busch. Chad Knaus, Johnson's crew chief, has been suspended from competition for the next two races and fined $35,000; Jeff Gordon, the No. 48 car owner, has been penalized 25 owner points. Todd Berrier, crew chief for the No. 29 Chevrolet driven by Kevin Harvick, has been suspended for the next four races and fined $25,000. Those penalties resulted from the No. 29 having an unapproved fuel filler and unapproved fuel cell vent. The car was in violation of Sections 12-4-A and 12-4-Q. In addition to Berrier's penalties, Harvick has been penalized 25 driver championship points, dropping him from eighth to 10th in the driver standings, while car owner Richard Childress loses 25 car owner championship points. Alan Gustafson, crew chief for the No. 5 Chevrolet driven by Kyle Busch, has been suspended for two races and fined $25,000, due to the car's quarter-panel heights being too high in post-race inspection -- also violations of Sections 12-4-A and 12-4-Q. Busch has been assessed 25 driver points, dropping him from 18th to 22nd in the standings; car owner Rick Hendrick loses 25 owner points. In addition: • Harold Holly, crew chief for the No. 32 Chevrolet driven by Bobby Hamilton Jr., was fined $5,000 because of the No. 32 having an unapproved deck lid, a violation of Sections 12-4-A and 12-4-Q that was determined during opening-day inspection. • John Latchford, crew chief for the No. 89 Dodge driven by Morgan Shepherd, was fined $1,000 because of an unapproved fire suppression agent found during opening-day inspection. That also violated Sections 12-4A and 12-4Q. • Larry Carter, crew chief for the No. 2 Dodge driven by Rusty Wallace, was fined $1,000. During opening-day inspection, the car's shoulder harness did not have a date tag displayed, a violation of Sections 17.2-C (and 12-4-A). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texastrophies Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress You beat me to it. Sounds like NASCAR is starting to realize that money alone was not working. For the most part I agree with the penalties, but I do kind of question Harvick getting points deducted, seems to me he was already penalized by being sent to the back of the field. Double jeopardy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress I agree with most of it. Here is what I'd like to see as far as penalties... Pre-Race - Fines and moving drivers back. Why take away points if it's caught before the race? Post-Race - Points and crew suspensions. No, just bigger suspensions and point deductions. Non-Race Related (Swearing) - Money. With that said... I think Harvick should have been moved back (time disallowed) and Todd Berrier be suspended for 1 race (maybe). JJ and Kyle Busch both should get point deductions (50 for each, make them get the point) and Chad Knaus and Clown Busch's Crew Cheif both suspended 5 points races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress I agree with what Chrud suggested. I really don't think points should be taken unless the action helped you do better in the race. Ie, if you swear, or are caught before the race, and start at the back why deduct points? You didn't gain any race position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganHuntr1 Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress Interesting...well said chrud. I think that suspending Chad Knaus will hurt Jimmies team a little. No big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABuckSlayer Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress Poor Chad will get a vacation for a couple weeks. Guess he can watch the races on Fox like the rest of us! Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress [ QUOTE ] The No. 48 Chevrolet team received three penalties, due to the car's roof height being too low in post-race inspection -- a violation of Section 12-4-A of the Cup series' rule book (actions detrimental to stock car racing) and Section 12-4-Q (car, car parts, components, and/or equipment used that do not conform to NASCAR rules). [/ QUOTE ] It stands to reason that if the roof height were too low at the end of the race, that it should have been too low before the race, unless of course the car settled, like they tend to do. I think NASCAR has their head up their rears and they need to figure out how a car can go from being legal to illegal in the cource of a race when it would be next to impossible not to mention time consuming to alter the car during the race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deldeer Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress 50 points???? little high there don't you think ???did they take 25 from jr last year when he got caught with an illegal intake on his car??? (thats right illegal). which happens to carry a stiffer fine than a unaproved one. i really don't think they should take points from the drivers. they don't know what is going on with all those mechanics tweaking on the car. back in the old days , yes the driver was probably aware of what was going on. however with the demand for the drivers time, their not there most of the time. even nascar has said that the car height is a gray area to them. maybe they should sit the crew chief out, & hit them with owner points. i don't care who the driver is.... it would kind of be like your boss taking your vacation away for something a coworker did...( thats kinda how i see it ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James7xChamp3 Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress Although I agree with Sluggo that NASCAR has their head up their rears most of the time, they do need to address cheating when caught. All teams have to make sure their cars are at the right height at the end of the race unless something failed or broke during the race. It is obvious something is wrong when only 1 car is low and the other inspected cars are not. I agree with taking away the points for race infractions/cheating. The 29 team made out the worse with having to start at the back plus losing 25 points. Something additional should have been done to the 48 and 5 team also. They probably should have let Harvick keep his starting spot and just taken the 25 points away but that is a tough one to call. When a team is caught cheating but still gets the win or the spot where they finished, is just not right. No justice in that. This is not the first time it's always been like that. A classic example of where NASCAR's head is at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texastrophies Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress [ QUOTE ] 50 points???? little high there don't you think ???did they take 25 from jr last year when he got caught with an illegal intake on his car??? (thats right illegal). which happens to carry a stiffer fine than a unaproved one. [/ QUOTE ] Uhhhh NO. Jr. was penalized points twice last year, 25 each time, once for a slip of the wheel and once for a slip of the tongue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress [ QUOTE ] 50 points???? little high there don't you think ??? [/ QUOTE ] 50 pts. were takin' away from Hendrick (25 for the 48 team and 25 for the 5 team). I agree with the fines except in Harvicks case. He is getting double whammied! Like said earier, he was sent to the rear of the field at the start of the race and his infraction happened "before" the race. As far as the car settling? How come the 48 car was the only one? Seems to me they could rig the springs with something to pass pre race inspection then remove a bolt, rubber something during a pit to lower the car? It prob. wasn't intentional...but no one else got a post race infraction for the car being to low. Here is another story, basically saying the same stuff... NASCAR Suspends Three Crew Chiefs Tuesday, March 15, 2005 CHARLOTTE, N.C. - NASCAR on Tuesday suspended the crew chiefs for Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Busch and Kevin Harvick in a swift crackdown on cheating committed at Las Vegas Motor Speedway. Todd Berrier was suspended for four weeks and fined $25,000 for rigging Harvick's fuel tank to appear full when it actually wasn't during qualifying. Chad Knaus was suspended for two weeks and fined $35,000 when Johnson's race-winning car failed to meet the minimum height requirement in Sunday's post-race inspection. Alan Gustafson was suspended two weeks and fined $25,000 because Busch's runner-up car was too high in the post-race inspection. "Guys have just got to stop playing games with the rules," NASCAR spokesman Jim Hunter told The Associated Press. "We've got to do whatever we have to do to protect the integrity of this sport." In addition to the suspensions, the drivers were also docked 25 points. Rick Hendrick, the car owner for Johnson and Busch, was docked 50 points - 25 for each infraction. Richard Childress, the car owner for Harvick, was docked 25 points. Hendrick responded quickly, saying he plans to appeal the penalties against him and his team. "I'm not disputing NASCAR's right to levy sanctions," Hendrick said in a statement. "As a team owner, I understand why these standards are in place and have always taken pride in the fact that our organization has kept a very clean record. "In this particular instance, though, we disagree with the severity of NASCAR's stance and plan to appeal their decision. I want to make it clear that we in no way intentionally ignored guidelines and I'm certain everyone understands that." The penalty cost Johnson the series points lead, which he earned following his victory Sunday in Las Vegas. NASCAR allowed his victory to stand, but instead of a 15-point advantage over Kurt Busch, Johnson is now in second place in the standings, 10 points back. Berrier's suspension was severe because he admitted to intentionally rigging the 22-gallon tank to appear full when it had just five gallons of gas in it - thereby allowing the car to go faster. The team was caught because Harvick qualified fourth. If he had been outside of the top five, his car might not have been checked over following his run. And if NASCAR officials weren't already angry, they likely hit the roof when Berrier showed little remorse after getting caught. "If I had to do it again, I'd still play it to try to get away with it, because I know how I got caught," Berrier told NASCAR.com. None of the crew chiefs were immediately available for comment. But earlier Tuesday, Johnson insisted his team's error was unintentional and blamed the car's shift in height on a bolt that had become loose over the 400-mile race. "I have 100 percent trust and confidence in Chad that he is going to do everything within the rules," Johnson said. Hunter said intent was not a factor in NASCAR levying the suspensions. "NASCAR doesn't feel it is fair to the teams who do meet all of the post-race requirements to continue to have people who are pushing it to the limit and then through miscalculations or whatever on their part, fail inspection," Hunter said. "These rules are black and white and we bend over backward if a car has been in a wreck, been hit, to give them the benefit of the doubt. "This is just unacceptable. So maybe the crew chiefs being at home will help remedy this issue." None of the suspended crew chiefs will be permitted to communicate with their race teams via cell phone or radio during the time they are suspended, Hunter said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deldeer Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress lets not forget when he got caught with the windshield at phoenix, or the car being to low at dega????woops.... did i just say all that?????? like i said before they ALL do it.....( some just get caught) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deldeer Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress as far as the post race inspections go... i may be wrong here so don't hang me, but.....i think they only impound the first 5 cars for a full inspection....the rest just go under the templates... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texastrophies Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress I agree they all try to get away with something and most probably do. Of course, we don't hear about something that they didn't get caught or cought at. But I think NASCAR needs to get a more uniform method of handing out punishments/fines etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganHuntr1 Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress [ QUOTE ] lets not forget when he got caught with the windshield at phoenix, or the car being to low at dega????woops.... did i just say all that?????? like i said before they ALL do it.....( some just get caught) [/ QUOTE ] Im Sorry....But how did this turn into a Dale Earnhardt Jr. topic?? Honestly...the guys had enough trouble in the past couple of weeks, we dont need to rag on him. I am a true hendrick fan, but if they cheat...or something comes loose, they should be penalized. It gave them an advantage, lower cars go faster. This post has nothing to do with Jr. and Yet...somehow, someone, had to try and run him down. Come on man, we all know that every team is going to try to do something. Hey Chrud, im actually backing up Dale Jr. Can you believe it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texastrophies Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress Maybe there is hope for you, yet. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganHuntr1 Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress [ QUOTE ] Poor Chad will get a vacation for a couple weeks. Guess he can watch the races on Fox like the rest of us! Eric [/ QUOTE ] And....Listen to Darrell Waltrip... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaDeerHunter Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] lets not forget when he got caught with the windshield at phoenix, or the car being to low at dega????woops.... did i just say all that?????? like i said before they ALL do it.....( some just get caught) [/ QUOTE ] Im Sorry....But how did this turn into a Dale Earnhardt Jr. topic?? Honestly...the guys had enough trouble in the past couple of weeks, we dont need to rag on him. I am a true hendrick fan, but if they cheat...or something comes loose, they should be penalized. It gave them an advantage, lower cars go faster. This post has nothing to do with Jr. and Yet...somehow, someone, had to try and run him down. Come on man, we all know that every team is going to try to do something. Hey Chrud, im actually backing up Dale Jr. Can you believe it? [/ QUOTE ] Sweet, that is what I love to hear! A hendrick fan backing up Junior. And I will do the same, Junior fan backing up hendrick. How could the car not be to low in pre-race, but to low after the race. something is not right there. Nascar should've take a second look at that maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyderpancake Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress You are right, they do a more thorough inspection of the top 5 qualifyers and the top 5 finishers. If Harvick would have qualified 6th he would have never got caught. I definitely think Kevin got the worst end of the deal. And about the car settling during the race, if it was as common as you say, then we would be seeing a lot more of it. I think NASCAR did the right thing, except maybe they were too harsh on Harvick. He got sent to the back, lost 25 points, lost his crew chief for a month, and he didn't even get to cheat during the race Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deldeer Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress my point is whenever it is a hendricks car involved in anything bad, or wrong, they should get the worst possible fine. i was useing jr as an example, (not bashing him!!!) as a matter of fact, i think i gave jr credit for the way he handled the thing between vickers.... so don't go getting all worked up in an uproar dude.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texastrophies Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress It takes a lot more than words on a monitor to get me worked up. lol I just having fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deldeer Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress cool...me to, this might sound crazy but when we have our nascar parties, or go to the races (12 of us) we all kind of argue & debate over who's driver is better, who is faster & so on. & it gets quite loud & obnoxious sometimes, but it sure is fun !!!!!! im the odd man out being a hendricks fan!!!! (most are jr) so i don't mean to offend anyone on here its just in good, clean, fun.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganHuntr1 Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress Youre not the odd man out...its just, i think were all hesitant at speaking against all these CRAZY JR FANS! Just Playing Guys, you guys know I like Jr....I hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress To me if NASCAR keeps a even and unbias playing field when it comes to inspections and handing out punishments for infractions I don't care what team it is, if they broke the rules intentionaly or not they get what they deserve and Im glad to see team members get suspensions,,,money means nothing to these guys but races do..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Re: The Law Has Been Laid Down to Hendrick/Childress Ok...(knuckle crack).... Dale Jr's windshield was illegal at Phoenix. When did NASCAR proclaim it illegal? Before qualifying. In fact, right in the opening tech inspection on Friday. Dale Jr's car was 1/4" too low at Talladega in the fall of 2003 after qualifying tech. NASCAR moved him to the rear of the field and disallowed his time. Dale Earnhardt Jr has yet to fail post-race inspection, especially after winning a race. The infractions against him were all found before the race. In my book, disallow thieir time if it is after qualifying (move them to the back) and that is it. If these infractions are caught before the race, why penalize the driver points? They didn't help them in that race afterall. If it's after the race, take 50 points. 50 too high? Heck no! How are you going to get cheating out of NASCAR? Hurt the drivers and teams that do it! 50 points would sure get my attention. The ONLY time there should be money involved is for minor things like Junior swearing at Talladega. Again, how can you compare pre-race infractions to post-race infractions? Maybe unapproved shocks or something that settled more than Chad had hoped they would. One thing I know for sure, JJ got caught cheating DURING the race with the whole flare in front of the rear wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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