?

[kyhunter99]

is this buck mature or not? watched him from last year, had a pencil rack and only 1 non typical point. no swelling of the neck post rut. quite the transformation this year got me curious

[Rhino]

Looks like a late August pic.  That being said, it would be too early for his neck to swell/muscle up.  I'd say he's mature though.

[kyhunter99]

Clarifying original post--ive been watching him since  july 2015.  December 2015 is when i noticed the lack of swelling/doe body. the pics in the original post are from *this year* july-august.  

Edited November 28, 2016 by kyhunter99

[wtnhunt]

Absolutely canNOT accurately field age a deer by looking at their neck in July.  His chest is too deep to be any less than 3.5, probably more likely at least 4.5.  

Then you have the argument of what is "mature", some biologists say 4.5 some say 5.5.  

 

[kyhunter99]

Again, the pic uploaded isnt the post rut one i saw from last year. im unable to edit original post, i know thats throwing alot of you off. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by kyhunter99

[kyhunter99]

Anyway, given his rack explosion between last year and this one (basic typical last year only one small non typical point), and the small neck of last years post rut (again--not pictured!!) im not convinced this is his best rack. what do you all think?

[wtnhunt]

I would guess him at 4.5 min in the pics you posted, whenever those were taken.  

[Rhino]

I assumed the pics were from this year so no confusion for me in my 1st post here.  Aging a buck in July/August is iffy at best since the traits you typically look for (like barrel chested or not) don't occur until they beef up for the fall.  With that said, according to research, by the book a 3.5 year old buck typically shows ~70% of his antler potential, a 4.5 year old buck shows ~90% of his antler potential.  Given the information you added in your most recent post (explosion in antler growth), it's probable this buck is 4.5 years old.  If that's correct, he's an exceptional 4.5 year old buck based on the number & length of his NT points and his main beam length.  By the book a buck is considered mature at 4.5.  Gene Wensel is a good friend of mine and he calls 4.5 year old bucks mature and 5.5 year old bucks (or older) fully mature.  Very few hunters will pass a 4.5 year old buck to let him grow to full maturity.  Gene happens to be one of them.

I recall a buck I pursued several years ago that I had no doubt he was 4.5 years old.  I didn't kill him that year but from many trail cam pics I learned a lot about his late summer and early fall pattern.  The following year he added ~20" of bone and I was fortunate to take him about a month before the rut cranked up.  He was on the same pattern from the prior year.  According to the jawbone aging method he was 5.5 years old.  He was also an exceptional buck, antler wise for that area.  He had far more bone on his head compared to other 5.5 year old bucks that had been killed in that area.  Only you can answer if your buck is an exceptional buck for your area or not.  I know of a some bucks that didn't add much more bone to their racks at 5.5.  I also killed a 7.5 year old buck last year that went way downhill.  He was ~25" smaller than he was as a 6.5 year old buck.

 

[Rhino]

10 minutes ago, Rhino said:

I assumed the pics were from this year so no confusion for me in my 1st post here.  Aging a buck in July/August is iffy at best since the traits you typically look for (like barrel chested or not) don't occur until they beef up for the fall.  With that said, according to research, by the book a 3.5 year old buck typically shows ~70% of his antler potential, a 4.5 year old buck shows ~90% of his antler potential.  Given the information you added in your most recent post (explosion in antler growth), it's probable this buck is 4.5 years old.  If that's correct, he's an exceptional 4.5 year old buck based on the number & length of his NT points and his main beam length.  By the book a buck is considered mature at 4.5.  Gene Wensel is a good friend of mine and he calls 4.5 year old bucks mature and 5.5 year old bucks (or older) fully mature.  Very few hunters will pass a 4.5 year old buck to let him grow to full maturity.  Gene happens to be one of them.  I'm not one of them.  If I kill a fully mature buck, it's because a big 4.5 year old buck didn't come within my kill range 1st.

I recall a buck I pursued several years ago that I had no doubt he was 4.5 years old.  I didn't kill him that year but from many trail cam pics I learned a lot about his late summer and early fall pattern.  The following year he added ~20" of bone and I was fortunate to take him about a month before the rut cranked up.  He was on the same pattern from the prior year.  According to the jawbone aging method he was 5.5 years old.  He was also an exceptional buck, antler wise for that area.  He had far more bone on his head compared to other 5.5 year old bucks that had been killed in that area.  Only you can answer if your buck is an exceptional buck for your area or not.  I know of a some bucks that didn't add much more bone to their racks at 5.5.  I also killed a 7.5 year old buck last year that went way downhill.  He was ~25" smaller than he was as a 6.5 year old buck.

 

 

[dogdoc]

that would be a shooter in my book.  Minimum 4.5 to me.  Have any trail cams of him this time of year?

[wtnhunt]

Al made a great point.  From 3.5 where a deer is at or near 70 percent of their potential to 4.5 is typically a good jump.  A 20 percent jump on a 125 inch 3.5 year old deer would likely push them over 150 at 4.5.  

Far as that deer's potential he would definitely add some inches next year but would not expect him to have quite as much as from last year to this year. 

[kyhunter99]

Thanks for the clarification Rhino.  Yes, this bucks genetics are unique for the area in question, with exception to one older typical taken last year in which this deer's 2015 rack bore noticable resemblance.  That typical had a very large body, but this buck does not. They seem to have almost the exact same pattern.

IMO, this deer is a shooter, but--because of his qualities I personally opted not to harvest in hopes that he will cover more does this season and further that genetic line (especially given the uncertainty of his success last year), if someone else ends up taking him so be it, but at least he will have more of a chance. I did see him out of velvet this year, so here is hoping he stays out of the crosshairs and has been an amorous boy.

[fly]

I'd say he was born on April 28th, 2012 at 6:07am.  Great deer - hope you get a crack at him next year. You might find this interesting.

http://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/galleries/photo-gallery-from-buttons-to-booner

[Rhino]

Interesting link Frank.  

Here's a 2014 pic and a 2015 pic of the Mississippi buck we called Capt. Hook.  He was blind in his right eye with a torn up right ear that looked something like a clover leaf.  Easy to see it was the same buck.  I had lots of pics of him both years.  I killed him about 2 weeks after the 2015 pic. as a 7 1/2 year old buck.  Anyone's guess why he went downhill so much as a 7 1/2 year old.  My best guess, and purely a guess is the stress of living in a high deer population area.

 

[Rhino]

BTW...we found Capt. Hook's shed from his right side in the spring of 2015.  Compared to his 2015 rack, he had lost ~10" of bone off his right side, mainly in beam and tine length.  Although it doesn't show up in the 2014 pic above, he had a short G4 on his left side in 2014 similar in length to his left side G3 in 2015.

[Ravin R10 man]

I'd say he i at least 4.5