buckbuster11 Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 I got to thinking yesterday while I was watching the congressional hearing on baseball. What is up with the cheating in NASCAR? Now, keep in mind I dont know squat about NASCAR except for the occasional ESPN article and all the posts in here. But, these baseball players are drug in front of congress because of pure speculation that they cheated. Yet, it seems to me that some NASCAR drivers and/or crew not only cheat, but do it openly. A lot of people either want a asterik by some of these baseball records, if not completely eliminated. Correct me if I'm wrong but if you get caught cheating in NASCAR and win the race, that win is not taken away right? I understand you lose points and get fined, but what kind of standard is that? It seems like a big sports contradiction to me. Shouldn't something be done about this? I'm just wondering what you guys think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: Question for my NASCAR fans NASCAR isn't under the spotlight that MLB is either. In both cases it is cheating. But, I think MLB is in front in courts and so on because they are hurting their bodies. Kids look up to baseball players and want to be like them. Unfortunately, some of them decided to take seriods like their favorite player and end up dieing because of it. NASCAR may have some teams that use performance enhancing parts, not drugs. Rarely does a car that cheat win however. But, this type of cheating doesn't hurt the drivers bodies like steroids in MLB do. I think it's really hard to compare steroids in MLB to a backed-out wedge bolt in NASCAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted March 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: Question for my NASCAR fans [ QUOTE ] I think it's really hard to compare steroids in MLB to a backed-out wedge bolt in NASCAR. [/ QUOTE ] LOL....I agree. I know its hard to compare the two and I realize baseball gets way more attention. But cheating is cheating isnt it? Maybe it would help NASCAR's popularity if they didnt have guys openly doing it...or there were more severe penalties. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: Question for my NASCAR fans Exactly. Cheating is cheating. More severe penalties, you bet! If you read any of the post I made about Jimmie Johnson cheating, you saw that I thought any post-race tech infractions should be an automatic 50 point deduction. If you are the winner and lead the most laps, a 25 point deduction is like finished 3rd then. 50 will drop them back even more. No money fines except for pre-race infractions. Even then, drop them wtih $250,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: Question for my NASCAR fans The problem with NASCAR is not so much cheating as it is teams or crew chiefs "pushing the envelope." If you pay attention to a lot of fines for parts infractions, a lot of times it is situations where the team is testing the gray area within the rule book, meaning, Part A is illegal, but Part B isn't specifically covered so we'll try it out and see what NASCAR says about it. I don't think a lot of it is flagrantly cheating, it is testing NASCAR out on a gray area in the rule book. I think the days of Gary Nelson doing "interesting" things with fuel lines and hidden ball bearings in roll cages that can be dumped out during the race are over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James7xChamp3 Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: Question for my NASCAR fans There is no comparison whatsoever with the cheating in NASCAR and the use of STEROIDS in MLB. They aren't facing Congress because of the general term "cheating". They aren't talking about corking bats or using tar etc. Steroids are now illegal and proven very harmful to your health. A major concern is also the youth generation who look up to these guys and think they can be like "so and so" with using roids. Apples and oranges IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James7xChamp3 Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: Question for my NASCAR fans [ QUOTE ] Maybe it would help NASCAR's popularity if they didnt have guys openly doing it...or there were more severe penalties. Just a thought. [/ QUOTE ] Don't agree. This helps NASCAR's popularity. People love scandals and controversey. It's about the only exciting thing going on in NASCAR as of late. The racing aspect sure hasn't been exciting. Heck, look at all the posts just in here about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyderpancake Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: Question for my NASCAR fans I just read a story about the late Smokey Yunick. He was notorious about testing the "gray area" in the rules. After one race his competitors complained that his car was getting way too good gas mileage, so NASCAR confronted him about the fuel cell. He insisted that it was legal but NASCAR pulled the tank off. After a heated arguement, Yunick jumped into the car and drove without it!Ah, the good ol' days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: Question for my NASCAR fans Part A is illegal, but Part B isn't specifically covered so we'll try it out and see what NASCAR says about it. I don't think a lot of it is flagrantly cheating, it is testing NASCAR out on a gray area in the rule book. My opionion....?? CHEATING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: Question for my NASCAR fans Cheating is Cheating but taking steroids without a proper prescription for a physician is ILLEGAL. Steroids are a controlled drug--just like a narcotic. These drugs--steroids--were obtained illegally--that is why! The Nascar cheating needs to be compared to having a corked bat like Sosa had or an emory board found in a pitchers mitt to scuff the ball--not compared to the illegal use of drugs. JMHO todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: Question for my NASCAR fans Fudging the Rules a NASCAR Tradition Friday, March 18, 2005 HAMPTON, Ga. - NASCAR cracked down on the cheaters last weekend, so everyone will be especially vigilant about following the rules at Atlanta Motor Speedway, right? Kyle Petty just shook his head. No way. "Everybody is still pushing the envelope," he said Friday, even as NASCAR inspectors swarmed through the paddock, sizing up cars for possible infractions. "It's not going to be as blatant, not going to be in your face so much. That's just the give and take of the sport." Indeed, the hefty penalties handed down by NASCAR - three crew chiefs were suspended and Jimmie Johnson lost his points lead - are unlikely to change the culture in the garage. From the earliest days, drivers and mechanics have looked for ways to increase speeds without running afoul of the inspectors. It's a game of cat and mouse with no clearly defined boundaries because the NASCAR rulebook is notorious for its vagueness. According to Petty, racing is just following the lead of other sports (except for golf, of course, with its tradition of players policing themselves). In baseball, infielders learn they can turn double plays without actually touching second base, cutting a little time off their throws to first. In basketball, officials could call palming on virtually every dribble. But Petty says football might have the most subjective rule of all. "If there's one sport and one rule that you could bust everybody on every play, it's holding in football," Petty said. "Everybody knows it. The fans know it. The players know it. The officials know it. At any given time, they could call holding. "That's the same way our sport is. At any given time, you could walk through that garage, follow the letter of the law and bust almost any team for something. But they don't do that. It's part of the game." Ryan Newman won his fifth straight pole at Atlanta, turning a lap of 194.690 mph Friday night as temperatures dipped into the upper 40s. It was the 29th career pole for Newman. Bobby Hamilton Jr. turned in the best qualifying run of his career, putting up the second-fastest speed (193.785) to earn a front-row spot alongside Newman for Sunday's Golden Corral 500. As for those who break the rules, NASCAR is clearly trying to send a message that some things are out of bounds. Johnson's winning car at Las Vegas failed to pass inspection after the race, falling short of the minimum height requirement. NASCAR suspended his crew chief, Chad Knaus, for two races and docked Johnson 25 points in the standings, dropping him behind defending series champion Kurt Busch. Alan Gustafson, crew chief for Kyle Busch, also received a two-week suspension when the runner-up car was found to be too high after the race. But NASCAR saved the most severe punishment for Todd Berrier, crew chief for Kevin Harvick. Berrier received a four-week suspension for rigging the fuel tank to appear full when it actually wasn't during qualifying - knowing a lighter car could run faster. Doing nothing to mitigate his infraction, Berrier admitted he would probably do it again if he had the chance because he now realizes how he was caught by inspectors. All three crew chiefs, who received hefty fines as well, appealed their suspensions, clearing them to stay with their teams this week. But only Knaus and Gustafson were in Atlanta - Berrier began serving his penalty, knowing his only hope was to reduce the length of his suspension, not wipe it out altogether. "We know that he did wrong and he knows he did wrong," car owner Richard Childress said. "We deserve a penalty, but not the amount that we got." Childress criticized NASCAR for its policy of taking points away from the drivers for infractions committed by their crews. "Most of the time, the drivers have no clue what's going on," he said. "I don't have the answer about what they should do, but I think if we came up with a better system, it would be a lot better than taking points. More fines, longer suspensions - do whatever you want to do - but points affect too many people that don't have anything to with it." Knaus and Gustafson complained about being called cheaters. "It's offensive to me and offensive to this team," Gustafson said. "We earned that (second-place finish at Las Vegas). It's not that we were doing anything directly to get that advantage." Both crew chiefs are going with the same defense: Their cars were within the rules at the start of the race, but the wear and tear of 400 miles knocked the machines out of alignment. In Johnson's case, the height of the roof was too low when the car went through inspection. Knaus blamed a loose wedge bolt, saying that forced the team to lower the back end of the car - negating any aerodynamic advantage it might have had because of the roof. "There's an advantage in having the back of the car propped up," he said. "Well, our car fell. It dropped lower. So we weren't intentionally cheating. "NASCAR saw that we had a wedge bolt back out and understood it. We lowered the car so the car did not have an advantage, and we end up with all these stiff penalties and suspensions and money and all this stuff. That's why we're all confused." Seven-time Cup champion Richard Petty said the situation isn't confusing at all. It's just the way the game is played. "Everybody knows everybody does it," the King said. "Some get caught. Some don't. That's part of the magic of racing: trying to get away with every little bit you can." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: Question for my NASCAR fans Just my 2 cents here. Taking an illegal steriod is a little more serious than mounting an illegal restricker plate...guess it's all up to who defines it as "illegal" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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