Texan_Til_I_Die Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 With his order to immediately remove the feeding tube for Terri Schiavo, Circuit Judge George Greer has just sentenced her to a slow and painful death. To quote a sign carried by one of those holding vigil outside the hospital: "Execution - It's Not Just for the Guilty Anymore." Of course, that's really been the case ever since Roe vs. Wade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death TRY doin that to a DOG!!!....and your in trouble, if not in JAIL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death I must admit that when I first started hearing about this case last year when it started making big news I was supportive of the husband in that he is her husband and he is the one legally responsible for making the decision of whether or not she should stay alive. Read this whole post before responding guys. Now this woman will be a vegetable for the rest of her life, barring a huge miracle, and while I know miracles can happen, at some point it is time to let go. At first I thought that she was on a life support system that was keeping her alive, and basically, a feeding tube is life support in a way, but she was able to breath and such on her own if I am not mistaken. I was watching the news today and looking at the protesters fighting to keep her alive and was thinking at what point is it OK to remove life support and when is it not. I mean, the whole argument against this thing was about the sanctity of life and all that jazz. When does a human life go from being expendable to non-expendable. My point is this, I was under the assumption that she was on a life support system that was keeping her alive until about a month or so ago when I finally learned enough about the case to learn that she was on a feeding tube and removing it would basically cause her to starve to death. If it were a regular life support system in which when they turned off the machine and she would be gone in a matter of minutes, that is one thing, and I would hate to have to make that type of decision. But I in no way support what they are doing to this woman, it is cruel and inhumane to remove this womans feeding tube and let her starve to death over the next couple of weeks. If both parties would agree that she would be better off if they let her go, they could find a more humane way of accomplishing this, this is just horrible to think of letting this woman die slowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death I am torn on this one. She did not want to be kept alive artificially, and her brain i so damaged she will never be more than her body in a vegetative state..but. I think the fact she will starve to death is the sticking point. She won't know, yet it is still barbaric. BUt then i think well really is it any different from disconnecting a ventilator(well it will take a lot longer)? Bottom line i guess i would side with the husband, but i am really glad i am not the one who has to make decisions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death Bad thing about it is: 1)I would never want to be kept alive if I were in a vegetative state with no real evidence I was even able to comprehend. 2) No one will ever know if it is painful or not as none of us are or may ever be in aposition such as she. 3) I have an agreement with my family that if I were in a vegetative state, they are to NOT keep me alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death [ QUOTE ] Bad thing about it is: 1)I would never want to be kept alive if I were in a vegetative state with no real evidence I was even able to comprehend. 2) No one will ever know if it is painful or not as none of us are or may ever be in aposition such as she. 3) I have an agreement with my family that if I were in a vegetative state, they are to NOT keep me alive. [/ QUOTE ] Ditto Norm! Me too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death [ QUOTE ] Bad thing about it is: 1)I would never want to be kept alive if I were in a vegetative state with no real evidence I was even able to comprehend. 2) No one will ever know if it is painful or not as none of us are or may ever be in aposition such as she. 3) I have an agreement with my family that if I were in a vegetative state, they are to NOT keep me alive. [/ QUOTE ] Could not agree more. From what I understand she has been this way since 1990. That is 15 years. Supposedly the husband says she did not want to be kept alive like that, and the family argued. Ultimately I think he should be able to respect her wishes in regards to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyj987 Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death Norm, if I can respectfully turn this around for you.... What if you were trapped, could hear, feel, think, and feel pain? What if there was a misdiagnosis, and you really weren't in a permanent vegetative state? What if there was real scientific evidece that therapy could be effective, but your family (spouse in this case) refused to provide that for you? We don't know what or if Terry Schaivo is feeling, thinking, etc...but expert after expert has said there is a possibility that therapy could help her to some degree---yet she's been denied even an evaluation by these experts. The real problem with Terry Schaivo is that we DON'T know because she's been denied an impartial medical evaluation and basic treatment... If she can feel pain, what death would be worse than starvation? Why don't they just put a bullet in her head so she doesn't suffer. A long, slow, possibly painful death in a HOSPITAL. This is just wrong--it's absolute murder. Our whole culture has changed from a culture of life to one of convenience. Pretty soon, anyone that's over 80 will be locked into a room and starved to death because they're a "burden" on society This is like executing someone without a trial....and it makes me sick to my stomach to even think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death She is NOT brain dead Mike, she is brain damaged and if you have seen her, you can see she is quite alive. There is life in those eyes of hers and she does communicate to some extent. I agree with Marky whole heartedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyj987 Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death Mike, I wasn't presuming anything about Terri Schaivo, but asking what people would think if it was them in her situation and the assumptions I listed were true. It's important, because they could very well be true with regards to her. The greater point was that we just don't know---because each side has their people out spinning it the way they want. I believe she should not be starved to death, but instead undergo extensive testing to see what her status really is---and even let the therapists that said they might be able to help her give it a try. What has her husband done over the last 15 years? Not a **** thing. For the last five years, she's been in hospice care. For the last three, she hasn't been outside. Therapy's been denied and all she's been given is a radio and nourishment. I think President Bush was absolutely right on this one...that we should err on the side of life. What kind of precedent would letting her starve to death set for this nation? Are we going to starve quadrapalegics? Or maybe parapalegics too? What about kids with Downs Syndrome? They're only half-conscious anyway, right? Can't forget the aged who burden our federal tax dollars with Medicaid--let's get rid of them too. Of course, what I said above was PURE hyperbole--I don't believe we should do any of those things--but I'm sure you get my point. The unborn already can be killed...now the disabled? It is our duty as Christians...as Americans...heck, as human beings to do all we can for those who cannot stand up for their rights because the lot that was dealt to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death People that are badly brain damaged or being kept alive on life support are taken off it every day and allowed to die.Taking the feeding tube out isnt much different than that.There comes a point where you shouldnt rely on technology to keep a body alive, you gotta unhook it and let nature take its course.After all, if it hadnt been for the doctors intervening in the first place she would been dead a long time ago. You already said we dont know what she can feel, think, or understand.How do we know she hasnt spent the last 15 years praying for death?If it was you on that bed would you wanna be kept like that indefinately?Escpecialy if you knew you were like that? Some of you also seem to have some pretty harsh views of her husband.But you havent watched your wife lie there in that state for 15 years either.Its probably a lot easier to sit on the sidelines and criticize his choices than it was to make those choices.15 years is a long time to watch a loved one suffer, and if you really think shes still got brain function I cant see how she wouldnt be suffering.If it was me in that situation I wouldnt want my wife, and kids, and family, to have to see me like that every day.I think the biggest assumption being made here is she somehow wants to live. Personaly i think the media and court system getting involved in this was the real injustice.Theyve took what shoulda been a personal tragedy and turned it into a circus.The husbands been made out to be some kinda monster across the country when 99% of the people judging him will never be in his shoes.Sometimes you just gotta let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death All I know is that I have a "living will" and not under any circumstance is my family or my doctors allowed to keep me alive under these means and that includes a feeding tube! That is NOT living! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganHuntr1 Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death I agree with Horst on this! Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Dea [ QUOTE ] People that are badly brain damaged or being kept alive on life support are taken off it every day and allowed to die.Taking the feeding tube out isnt much different than that.There comes a point where you shouldnt rely on technology to keep a body alive, you gotta unhook it and let nature take its course.After all, if it hadnt been for the doctors intervening in the first place she would been dead a long time ago. You already said we dont know what she can feel, think, or understand.How do we know she hasnt spent the last 15 years praying for death?If it was you on that bed would you wanna be kept like that indefinately?Escpecialy if you knew you were like that? Some of you also seem to have some pretty harsh views of her husband.But you havent watched your wife lie there in that state for 15 years either.Its probably a lot easier to sit on the sidelines and criticize his choices than it was to make those choices.15 years is a long time to watch a loved one suffer, and if you really think shes still got brain function I cant see how she wouldnt be suffering.If it was me in that situation I wouldnt want my wife, and kids, and family, to have to see me like that every day.I think the biggest assumption being made here is she somehow wants to live. Personaly i think the media and court system getting involved in this was the real injustice.Theyve took what shoulda been a personal tragedy and turned it into a circus.The husbands been made out to be some kinda monster across the country when 99% of the people judging him will never be in his shoes.Sometimes you just gotta let it go. [/ QUOTE ] Well said there horst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Dea Well I guess I will put my 2 cents in....It all depends on the situation. I believe in a situation like this, I would say enough is enough as well. I mean how long do we make somebody go through something like this. It has been 15 years for crying out loud. I mean it isin't like the husband gave up after year or something like that. Pull the plug and let her rest in peace. I do think though that maybe they should give her something to help it go by quicker. Give her a shot that will make her heart stop in like a few minutes or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldawg Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Dea I side with the husband on this. The tremendous medical expenses must be about killing him by now. And, just knowing that she didn't want to live like that would eat at you constantly. Let nature take it's course. If, after taking the tube out, she makes a sign that she is hungry, by all means, feed her. But, other than that, let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Dea Very well said Chris. You would think in 15 years the diagnosis if it had not changed in that time is not going to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrea Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Dea Lesson learned: Get your living wills in order. If she had a living will...none of this would be happening right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death First things first – this is something that happens every single day across America and tough decisions are made every day that allow for either someone living or dying. More than often it means ventilators are turned off and in other cases feeding tubes are removed so either way you cut it, someone starves to death or suffocates. The only reason we’re having this conversation today is because the media has decided to single out Terri Schiavo in this case and make some sort of heart-felt case on her behalf without once considering the family or the husband. As for myself and my opinion, my every sympathy goes out to the parents but reality tells me that they’re living in a dream world if they think she’s ever going to live even an ounce of similarity to what life she had. There’s nothing left of their daughter except a body that’s wasting away. I guess you have to ask yourself if this truly is “life” as you want it to be known. Myself, the answer is clear and this case has brought up conversations in my household that it is my wish that in a vegetative state you do whatever possible to end what useless life I have left and let me take my chances with the good lord himself. As for Congress, Terri Schiavo has given them one more case to go after the “pro-life” groups. This isn't about Terri Schiavo, it's about abortion. The anti-abortion movement saw an opportunity to take Terri's tragedy and turn it into a spectacular pageant in support of life. Quality of life means nothing to these people ... only the fact that some sort of life is present. Please make sure these people are not around when the time comes to pull the plug on myself! The true tragedy here is your right and what the federal government thinks your rights should be. From this day on your right to die, your right to instruct your loved ones to not take extraordinary measures to keep you alive if disaster strikes, is a federal matter, not a state one. Congress and the President have decided that for you as of this weekend and I’m ashamed of them. As for the sticker shock some of you are getting right now, don’t read into this that I’m turning coat here. Yes I’m a Republican, yes I voted for Bush both times and would do it again but you can **** well bet that my Republican Congressman has already received a scathing email from this citizen in his inbox this morning. The last thing we need is more federal interventions in our lives … and in this case, in our death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death PH, very well said!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion_70 Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death [ QUOTE ] First things first – this is something that happens every single day across America and tough decisions are made every day that allow for either someone living or dying. More than often it means ventilators are turned off and in other cases feeding tubes are removed so either way you cut it, someone starves to death or suffocates. The only reason we’re having this conversation today is because the media has decided to single out Terri Schiavo in this case and make some sort of heart-felt case on her behalf without once considering the family or the husband. As for myself and my opinion, my every sympathy goes out to the parents but reality tells me that they’re living in a dream world if they think she’s ever going to live even an ounce of similarity to what life she had. There’s nothing left of their daughter except a body that’s wasting away. I guess you have to ask yourself if this truly is “life” as you want it to be known. Myself, the answer is clear and this case has brought up conversations in my household that it is my wish that in a vegetative state you do whatever possible to end what useless life I have left and let me take my chances with the good lord himself. As for Congress, Terri Schiavo has given them one more case to go after the “pro-life” groups. This isn't about Terri Schiavo, it's about abortion. The anti-abortion movement saw an opportunity to take Terri's tragedy and turn it into a spectacular pageant in support of life. Quality of life means nothing to these people ... only the fact that some sort of life is present. Please make sure these people are not around when the time comes to pull the plug on myself! The true tragedy here is your right and what the federal government thinks your rights should be. From this day on your right to die, your right to instruct your loved ones to not take extraordinary measures to keep you alive if disaster strikes, is a federal matter, not a state one. Congress and the President have decided that for you as of this weekend and I’m ashamed of them. As for the sticker shock some of you are getting right now, don’t read into this that I’m turning coat here. Yes I’m a Republican, yes I voted for Bush both times and would do it again but you can **** well bet that my Republican Congressman has already received a scathing email from this citizen in his inbox this morning. The last thing we need is more federal interventions in our lives … and in this case, in our death. [/ QUOTE ] Well said PH.. I live in fl and have just been inundated with this forever..Her cerebral cortex is gone, there is no way she could ever come out of the vegetative state. The only functions she has are involuntary muscle actions, heartbeat and breathing. From reports I've seen, there is basically no electrical activity in her brain. If it was me, I'd want my family to let me go. They've always know those wishes. Now with the courts becoming involved in everything, there's no choice but to have a living will..Gov't needs to keep out of this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrea Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death What's shocking to me is that several years ago Terri Schiavo WAS being rehabilitated. She was feeding herself, re-learning how to walk and talk. Her husband ordered all rehab. efforts stopped. How is that possible? He had NOTHING in writing. Now she has deteriorated to the state she is in now because of his actions. All of this info. was taken from Bill O'Reilly's show when he was interviewing her doctor. Since when is it legal in this country for a judge to make a ruling in a life or death situation based on hearsay????????????????????? They are allowing this poor woman to starve to death because of this man. Congress only stepped in to provide another legal outlet or appeal so to speak for this woman's family. Heck, even death row inmates are allowed appeal after appeal. Why not a disabled woman????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyrod64 Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death I don't know what I'd do Thats a tough decision that I hope I never have to face. I know that the expenses can be a real financial strain not to mention the mental strain going on. I do know for sure that I personally do not want to be kept alive like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrea Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death [ QUOTE ] I don't know what I'd do Thats a tough decision that I hope I never have to face. I know that the expenses can be a real financial strain not to mention the mental strain going on. I do know for sure that I personally do not want to be kept alive like that! [/ QUOTE ] Had her husband not stopped her rehab years ago, she probably would be living a productive life by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Re: Florida Judge Sentences Innocent Person to Death Huntin girl, continuing therapy might seem like a good idea, but it also is very expensive.Even your medical insurance will only cover so many therapy sessions.I dont know what Bill O,rielly had to say but Ive just spent 1/2 hour looking through reports on her.Even the neouologists that suport keeping her alive said the most shes swallowed on her own since the accident was a couple spoonfulls of pudding.The videos you see where she appears to be responsive to stuff are just momentary responses, shes not like that all the time.Her brains still functioning but at a very very low level.The court appointed neurologists decided 3 to 2 that she was in a vegatative state, her husband had 2, her parents had 2, and the courts appointed 1 of them.Guesse which two said she could recover?How long you suppose she would stay alive eating only a few spoonfulls of pudding?Or a few spoonfulls of anything for that matter?And not everyday, just eating them when she was in a responsive state.If you were footing the bill for therapy how long would you continue to pay for it if there wasnt any definite improvements?How long could you afford to pay for it?She cant walk, talk, move her arms or legs, she cant eat, shes partially blind.How productive of life could she be leading right now?Funny thing about loss of brain function, it dont generally come back escpecially after this length of time.Even if she could be rehabilitated what would that mean for her with her brain functioning at this level?I dont understand what sorta miracle you think is gonna happen by keeping her feeding tube in.Is she gonna wake up one morning with all her senses intact?After 15 years how much do you suppose has been payed out by her family in medical expenses?My dad spent 5 days in the hospital a couple months ago.It was 22,000 dollars all together.At what point do you think you should let nature take its course?She has no chance to live anything resembling a normal life, Her families dealt with it for 15 years, her husbands more than likely paid a fortune in medical expenses.Its not something that just affects Terry, it affects everyone around her.When is a good time to let it go and let nature take its course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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