another thinking post

[elkoholic]

I know it hurts to think but  what the heck.  This forum is dying and a few posts might help, even if one has to think to do it.

Okay, I think (ouch) that we need to come up with a better term than poacher when it comes to naming someone who is hunting illegally.  I know we like to say a poacher is not a hunter, but in reality they are, albeit, they are hunting illegally.  My reasoning for this need of a new moniker being that in the press it seems like the word "poacher" is seldom if ever used and it will simply be stated that a "hunter" did the wrong.  That tends to lump all hunters together as "bad".  Adjectives and nouns that describe groups that are, as a whole, law abiding citizens should not be used.   Perpetrator and criminal would work but they already exist and not used in hunting/fishing violations.  Maybe, just adding alleged in front of the word poacher would get it done, but that is not likely happening.  We need something the press will grab onto that takes the public's eyes away from the rest of the hunting community.  Game thief comes to mind, but I don't think it's catchy enough.  Any thoughts?

[wtnhunt]

In my book "poachers" are not hunters at all, and they do still get pointed out as poachers rather than hunters by some media in some places.  They are cheats and thieves.   Far as what to call em, think poacher still fits. 

Of course some degrees of violations varying would lead me to think some may not be as bad of poachers.  The tresspasser that unknowingly in the heat of the moment shoots the deer that is over an iffy line, is not quite the same as the poacher that is out shooting deer in headlights at night off of a road out of his truck.  Sometimes accidents happen and some make honest mistakes that are still game violations, it is how they handle those circumstances, in some situations violators are not "poachers".   It is those who know they are doing wrong and do it anyways or those who deliberately act ignorantly of laws or take advantage, and yes you are right they get lumped in with hunters which is disgusting

[elkoholic]

Yeah, I'm not sure if someone who makes a mistake should be lumped in with one who is intentionally doing wrong.  Of course determining their intent can be a little difficult.  The disciplinary action (should they get caught) handed down can reflect how the courts feel about the seriousness/intent of the infraction.

When it comes to trespassing, if there are no clear boundaries I do not believe that to be a hunting violation.  Here in Montana there are thousands of homesteading claims scattered throughout the national forests with no fences or boundary markers of any kind and yet by law, you as a hunter are required to know exactly where you are so that you are not trespassing.  Of course there's an app for that (onX).  The problem with GPS readings is accuracy (as an example: my one property line has been surveyed 3 times in less than 2 years and there is a greater than 20 ft distance in boundary makers).

Is the person who shot a deer out of season so that their family had something to eat, a poacher?  By definition, yes, but if truly in need, I think the laws of survival outweigh human law.  The sad truth is that people who would normally follow the law sometimes make a bad decision spontaneously without taking the time to think about their actions.  They may not have been hunting illegally, or poaching, but may have done something illegal while hunting.

Another thought, a duck hunter takes the plug out of his shotgun so he can get off a few extra shots if needed, but otherwise follows the law.  He never takes more than the limit and only species that are legal during legal hunting hours.  Is he a poacher?

 

[Ravin R10 man]

Violator seems to fit well, calling them a "Hunter" is just a way the "ANTI"S" try to paint us all as if we are doing something wrong. Lefti's always have a way to try to steer the comments negatively to establish their sick narrative.

[wtnhunt]

On 3/14/2019 at 5:15 PM, elkoholic said:

Is the person who shot a deer out of season so that their family had something to eat, a poacher?  By definition, yes, but if truly in need, I think the laws of survival outweigh human law. 

Back years ago, sure that happened on a regular basis back before states began trying to manage game.  In today's world, that scenario likely would make for that person getting a handout.  Honestly the system so many live on today was designed to help people get back on their feet and not be a way of life, guess to me that sounds like an excuse to do something illegal.  I know a lot of people give meat to hunters for the hungry, and had in the past heard of processors that would have unclaimed meat.  

On 3/14/2019 at 5:15 PM, elkoholic said:

Another thought, a duck hunter takes the plug out of his shotgun so he can get off a few extra shots if needed, but otherwise follows the law.  He never takes more than the limit and only species that are legal during legal hunting hours.  Is he a poacher?

I am not a waterfowl hunter, have never been and never tried despite having ducks and geese around here regularly in the fall/winter.  From some of the conversations I have had with our game warden about the shooting we hear around here, I think our warden frowns heavily on unplugged guns.  I guess that is an unfair advantage that allows them to take more shots and likely kill ducks they might not otherwise take.  I mean from what I have seen when you have a group of waterfowl committed it is usually multiple birds.  It is still cheating in my opinion.  It is the same guys that engage in that type activity that will bait where it is not legal.  

If someone is doing something with the intent that they are knowingly doing wrong and hoping they can get away with it, that is unethical.  

[dartonman]

I call them Mutts.............plain and simple Mutts...........al

[elkoholic]

10 hours ago, wtnhunt said:

If someone is doing something with the intent that they are knowingly doing wrong and hoping they can get away with it, that is unethical.  

It is hard to argue with that, but many feel that they have the right to do as they please.  Here in Montana we have 70 game wardens to cover 150,000 square miles and poaching is rampant due to lack of enforcement and people openly talk about their law breaking exploits with little fear of getting caught.  On the weekends game wardens are tied up at game check stations when they should be in the field.

1 hour ago, dartonman said:

I call them Mutts.............plain and simple Mutts...........al

I like it - like junk yard dogs.

[stevebeilgard]

I truly do not believe the need for meat exists. Literally every state G&F has a helpline where a needy family will get poached or road kill animals almost at will. Folks who hunt at night or off season are committing a crime and I think poacher is a good word. A guy who makes a mistake or simply didn't know the law is not a poacher to me, but still in the wrong. Simply put, poaching is the illegal taking of game. That is whether you know the laws or not. It's like driving down the highway with a 75 mph speed limit and missing the sign saying 50 mph. You'll get the same ticket not knowing the limit as the guy knowing it and taking his chance. 

[im your huckleberry]

Another name for poacher hmmmm, how about idiot. 

[Adjam5]

They Clintoned it...Or Just call them Clintons. They know what they are doing is wrong and do it anyway...Yeah...A Clinton sounds about right.?

But really they are Wildlife Criminals and if you boil it down...Plain ole criminals.