Schools restarting...

[wtnhunt]

Kids here go back the first week of August.  Only 4 weeks away.

Send them and hope your kid is not one of the few who has that wrong blood type or does not have some underlying condition you don't yet know about. Or hope this virus does not hit any schools near you.  Fact is some kids are dying from this and while they say the risk is low, there is a risk.

Would it make a difference the kids age or if there child had special education needs.  How crowded the school is.  How much in your decision making do you factor in the situation in your local area.

Thoughts......

 

 

[Ravin R10 man]

Fortunately, we are past those years. I do have a grandchild who really wants to go back badly.

The Flu still has been worse than C-19. 

people have thrown out all or most of the practices most followed. Thats the crowd getting hit now. If Schools follow strict guidelines, I dont see why they cant reopen. Some countrys never shut down.

Testing should be MANDITORY imo

[elkoholic]

There is a risk in everything one does in life.  Taking reasonable precautions makes sense, but to isolate ourselves and to quit living an active life of physical, emotional, and educational growth is not the answer.  I think if humanity had crawled in a hole every time there was a chance of catching an infection or cracking our skulls we would still be living in caves.  It is beyond comprehension that someone who would strive to climb Annapurna or K2 with a death rate around 30% is afraid of a virus with a death rate that is closer to 1%, but that seems to be the story.  Think about it, every time you drive down the road and pass a vehicle going the other way, you are within feet of death.  Risks?  Bike riding, swimming, sports?

Get those kids back in school.  Let them live their lives and for goodness sake do not scare them with the idea they will die if they get sick. 

[Ultradog]

Well said Elkoholic!
Being an amateur historian I think of the Marines who landed on Iwo Jima, the submariners who suffered the highest death rate of the war, the fliers who destroyed the 4 Japanese carriers at Midway or the young men who who climed the cliffs at Pont Du Hoc on D Day or the men who flew rockets to the moon.
We knew some of them would be casualties - far, far more than 1%.
But they sent them. They went despite the risks. And the world was a better place for them having gone.
Succumbing to fear and staying home doing nothing is a losing proposition.
Joe Stalin said something along the lines of "When a million people die it is but a statistic. Yet when one child dies it is a tragedy."
How true.
But we can not be a nation that puts a greater value on one child's life than we do a million potential educators, fliers, carpenters, physicists, farmers and pharmacists who Must have an education to do their life's work.

[wtnhunt]

13 hours ago, Ultradog said:

But we can not be a nation that puts a greater value on one child's life than we do a million potential educators, fliers, carpenters, physicists, farmers and pharmacists who Must have an education to do their life's work.

Guess it boils down to perspectives Jerry.  I get what you and Dave are saying and do not disagree that life must go on, however for the parent of the 7 year old little girl or boy who sends their child to school because they were told it was safe, only to later have to bury them.  I would think they would not be so likely to agree that it was for the "greater good".  Or heaven forbid if you were the teacher who was positive but had no symptoms and gave this virus to your students and a kid who noone knew had underlying condition and ultimately loses their life due to their exposure.  Real possibilities.  Unfortunately there is no way to predict just how many parents might have to deal with such an outcome.  Too little at this point is really known about this virus.  Some schools starting in just weeks may not really be properly prepared.  

 

[elkoholic]

I would venture to guess that more children will die from an anaphylaxis reaction due to unintended ingestion of food allergens (peanuts for example) than will succumb to the Covid-19 virus.  Either way it is a tragedy to those directly affected.  No school will be 100% safe.  Living in a sterile, accident free world is not going to happen.  There is always the " home school" option if parents feel strongly enough about the risks, but that is not for the masses.

5 hours ago, wtnhunt said:

Too little at this point is really known about this virus.

So true.  The so called "experts" have changed their minds multiple times and the media has sensationalized every erroneous tidbit they get their hands on.

Something not really touched on, but the issue of working mothers carrying the load to take care of and educate their children is of great concern.  Single moms have it tough all the time, but even married/cohabiting moms do not get a whole lot of help from the dads is what I'm hearing.  Work eight hours a day, get home and make dinner, then clean it up, and then teach the kids(s), who are in different grades.  I give the pharmacy techs I work with a ton of credit.  Their husbands need a boot up their ......

[wtnhunt]

9 hours ago, elkoholic said:

The so called "experts" have changed their minds multiple times and the media has sensationalized every erroneous tidbit they get their hands on.

No doubt this raises cause for concern.  There have been a very few that have remained consistent only adapting what they are telling the public with new facts supporting what they have to share, and those are likely the most trustworthy.  

Honestly don't think it wise to trust what data we are getting from outside our own country.  Not really trusting even our own when seeing such wide discrepancies in numbers.  The Tennessee health Dept at the local level is really a joke, at least where the regional hospital is located.  The director has IMHO been politically motivated to follow the local and county mayor's directives rather than be straight with the public.

9 hours ago, elkoholic said:

Something not really touched on, but the issue of working mothers carrying the load to take care of and educate their children is of great concern. 

You are right.  I think schools do need to reopen at some point and maybe with an adjusted schedule to help alleviate some of the burden being put on those who have to work.  I don't however think it is wise to rush something because the president is threatening to withdraw federal funding.  I plan to vote for Trump this fall, but I am not in support of his latest threats that are putting undue pressure on already stressed school systems.  Our schools here are trying to figure this out, but as of yet other than middle and high school kids being made to wear masks there has been no real plan given to parents.  The schools are set to open the first week of August.  I can foresee mass confusion especially since there will be no ability to hold a meeting at the school for all parents as has taken place in the past prior to schools opening.  Not heard any tentative plans for elementary kids.  

We had heard about some potential plans for kids to go alternating days to start to help with social distancing in the classrooms.  But that does not lend any help to those folks trying to get back to work.  

 

[wtnhunt]

9 hours ago, elkoholic said:

I would venture to guess that more children will die from an anaphylaxis reaction due to unintended ingestion of food allergens (peanuts for example) than will succumb to the Covid-19 virus

Another interesting topic of discussion.  When I was a kid there was never a thought of concern for cafeteria guidelines with regards to peanut allergies.  These days my kids are not allowed to take peanut butter and jelly sandwiches or peanut butter crackers or even peanut butter cookies for snacks if a single kid in their grades has allergies.  The risk is not great that my kid eating a sandwich sitting 5 tables away from the kids with the allergies is going to cause him to have a reaction, however the schools policies are such that they go to an extreme to ensure the safety of the one kid out of hundreds.  

Far as the flu, last season both our school aged kids got the flu while at school.  It was pretty bad, an outbreak here last October and November that shut down several schools.  Our 14 year old came home and said I will probably get the flu, the kid sitting behind me had it and came to school anyway.  It is those same parents that have total disregard for others that create a problem.  Couple days later Allison had the flu.  Our son, 8 at the time, also ended up with the flu and strep on top of that.  He cannot take medicine due to his sensory issues related to autism, ended up having to get him antibiotic shots 3 days in a row for the strep which cost us out of pocket nearly $300.  

Schools are ill equipped for dealing with sickness even when they take precautions.  I think in large part that is due to the I don't give a rip "parents".  Society has changed dramatically in my lifetime.  Unfortunately it seems to me as though the truly genuine concerns for others in this day and age is not like it was 30 years ago.  Far more self serving people.

[Ultradog]

Wm,

What about all the educators,  school employees, parents and children who Want schools to reopen? Those who do not think the risk is great or that the media has totally overblown this thing. Do their opinions count for nothing?

I think of the ad I saw the other day for a T-shirt;

"My rights do not end where your fears begin."

[wtnhunt]

11 hours ago, Ultradog said:

Wm,

What about all the educators,  school employees, parents and children who Want schools to reopen? Those who do not think the risk is great or that the media has totally overblown this thing. Do their opinions count for nothing?

I think of the ad I saw the other day for a T-shirt;

"My rights do not end where your fears begin."

Just a conversation Jerry.  Looking at perspectives and opinions, discussion is good I think.  I am not against schools opening, I am however concerned that some school systems are being pushed by politicians to open when they may not be ready.  

As far as media goes, when I do watch the news I generally watch Fox.  For local coverage when I do watch local I most often watch our local ABC channel and they do frequently hit on national and world happenings and it is easy to see the difference in bias.  

My wife being a registered nurse, she does not think with what is going on with the way things are trending that our schools will be ready the first week of August.  They will have to take 24-30 kids on top of each other in the classrooms, so much for social distancing.  Usually by now this close to classes starting the schools have announced meetings,. It is like crickets here, we have heard absolutely nothing since we got an automated call and texts asking for us to fill out a survey regarding covid and schools safely reopening. That was nearly a month ago.

 

[wtnhunt]

Situation here is fluid, teachers do not even know yet at this point with just 2 weeks to go whether they will be having full classrooms or if it will be at half capacity.  Did hear yesterday from Will's special ed teacher that now the elementary school kids will have to wear masks.  Heard postponing opening has become a consideration, this thing is getting worse here rather than better.    Got the sense there is a LOT of frustration on the part of teachers for this being forced on them.  

I am going to have to have a heart to heart with the principal over all this, he knows Will and knows the expectation of him wearing a mask all day is unrealistic.  He is going to have to have the teachers on the same page.  

[elkoholic]

The thought of elementary school kids wearing masks is being discussed at the schools here also.  I say, good luck with that.  With most of the schools having a scheduled mid-August opening there is concern with this latest ballooning of positive cases.  My thought would be to delay openings until after Labor Day, which would put it off until the second week of September.  Hopefully it will quiet down by then.  The only teacher I know is prepared for either option, either in class or long distance.  She is concerned with where each child is at after the way it went in the spring.  She doubts they are all on the same page.

In reality, I doubt that reducing the chance of spread to zero is possible.  A vaccine, when available, will not be 100% effective, and there will always be some risk.  We can't live in a bubble, that would be just getting by, but getting by don't mean you're living.

[Ultradog]

The topic of a vaccine opens another can of worms. At least it does for me.

Would you be the first person to take the vaccine?

I doubt I could. Not sure I could be the millionth or hundred millionth to take it either.

[wtnhunt]

19 hours ago, elkoholic said:

She is concerned with where each child is at after the way it went in the spring.  She doubts they are all on the same page.

Part of the plan here is for all students to be tested in the first weeks back to school to see where they are at.  They know there will be different levels of remediation to get kids up to speed. 

19 hours ago, elkoholic said:

With most of the schools having a scheduled mid-August opening there is concern with this latest ballooning of positive cases.  My thought would be to delay openings until after Labor Day, which would put it off until the second week of September.  Hopefully it will quiet down by then. 

Kind of my thoughts too.  Our schools are set to open in less than two weeks.  Case counts here are accelerating rather than declining.  My point has remained that the schools do not need to set their timeline based on whether or not federal funding will be jeopardized.  While I have said I for the most part have been supportive Trump, I absolutely disagree with his threats to withhold federal funds from schools that do not open at their typical scheduled opening timelines.  
On the flipside, some are suggesting that getting a headstart ahead of a second wave may be an advantage.   

Kids have been out here since the spring.  School exposures have not happened and spread among kids has not happened.  Just my perspective, but I think that has been a major factor in the numbers of kids not getting this.  

[wtnhunt]

Another question on this, do you sign a waiver of liability to the school for the risk of covid, releasing the school system of any and all liability? 

Being required to sign here to have your kids in the schools, but you are required to have them either at school or online schooling.  

[wtnhunt]

Well, fwiw we are sending our 14 year old to high school, but our 9 year old will not be in the classroom but will rather do online distant learning program.  After much discussion my wife and I decided last night that with the circumstances around his situation that it was not in his best interest to be in the classroom.  We know he won't wear a mask or social distance.  It is an unfortunate situation, it puts a 6.5 hour a day burden on me to be his teacher, and he will miss the social interaction and special education services he needs.   With over 2000 physicians in the state calling on the governor to delay openings and this thing ticking upwards the way it is, it is just not the right time. 

County of less than 50,000 having between 15-30 and new cases a day this week, as I understand it means the transmission rate is high and would call for rolling back openings. Tennessee if my math is right has a higher case rate per capita than California. 

[elkoholic]

20 hours ago, wtnhunt said:

Another question on this, do you sign a waiver of liability to the school for the risk of covid, releasing the school system of any and all liability?

It is pathetic that the schools would, or could, be held liable.  Unfortunately, in the litigious society we live in the school system is merely trying to cover their butts, although in a court of law a signed waiver does not necessarily carry the day.  Whether for money or just to place blame, the lawyers are always the winners.  Do we blame the schools when there is an influenza, common cold, pink eye, or lice outbreak?  Surely they must be responsible and should cover all medical expenses, along with compensation for pain and suffering.  May as well sue yourself as the taxes you pay have to cover that "cost" of education.  Sorry for the rant.

6 hours ago, wtnhunt said:

Well, fwiw we are sending our 14 year old to high school, but our 9 year old will not be in the classroom but will rather do online distant learning program

It sounds like you've made your decision, and now just have to make the best of it.  When the virus has run its course (it will never be totally gone) then your son can transition back into school.  A lot of the emotional/mental trauma caused by this "pandemic" will have far more of a lasting effect than the virus itself.  The economy?  It will never make up for what is being lost.

[wtnhunt]

2 hours ago, elkoholic said:

It is pathetic that the schools would, or could, be held liable.  Unfortunately, in the litigious society we live in the school system is merely trying to cover their butts, although in a court of law a signed waiver does not necessarily carry the day. 

The fact that they need a waiver tells me they are more concerned about that potential than those pushing the openings.  We sign a waiver of liability every year, but not specific to covid.  This same school system just banned ALL peanut based products from their elementary school this year.  Same area where a couple of kids trespassed on a vacant property (that was partially fenced and had no trespassing signs) got in a pond and drowned, only for the parents to sue that property owner.   Those boys went to the middle school that is in this same town.  I get your point Dave, it just makes us more nervous about the entire situation that the school is concerned enough to be doing a cover their butt waiver.  A lot of experts on this subject do not agree with each other.

My wife has seen first hand how this virus is working.  She is seeing ALL her positive cases being with NO symptoms, she just had 2 more come back yesterday.  That makes for this thing to spread much more rapidly with people going on about their normal lives not having a clue they are infected and giving to others who may not be so lucky.  Testing here is taking as long as 2 weeks through the health dept.  Fortunately her work is using their own lab and getting results in as little as 3 days in some cases with the average being 4-5. They started testing all their employees that show any symptoms rather than sending them to the health dept.  

 

2 hours ago, elkoholic said:

It sounds like you've made your decision, and now just have to make the best of it.  When the virus has run its course (it will never be totally gone) then your son can transition back into school.  A lot of the emotional/mental trauma caused by this "pandemic" will have far more of a lasting effect than the virus itself.  The economy?  It will never make up for what is being lost.

Yes, we did make a decision, Dave.  We based our decision on a couple factors.  Our 9 year old is high functioning autistic and he has some issues with putting things in his mouth.  He also has issues with personal space.  He cannot help it and it is not as easy as just telling him don't do this for this reason.  The schools are very bad with controlling simple virus spread, flu hits them and our son gets it every time.  He also cannot hold down any type of medicine.  You as a pharmacist should be able to understand and appreciate that.  This kid would prefer to take a shot over taking any medicine including tylenol, he takes liquid or chewables and it comes right back up.  He also has potential for cardio issues, he has what his pediatrician called an innocent murmur, he did get an echo when he was 5 that revealed he had no abnormalities at that time.  That being said, our family has a history of heart issues.  I have a severely calcified bicuspid aortic valve that is stenotic, graded as moderate to severe @ 1.2 cm, normal should be 4 cm.  Aortic root is also dilated,  cardiologist said we would be discussing surgery next year.  Just not worth taking the chances. 

Schools must be feeling a little pressure.  They put out this afternoon that they would be pushing opening back by 2 weeks with hopes that they could open at level 3 as planned.  What that means is opening at full capacity rather than having to stagger half of the students.  If they open at level 2 they will have to stagger students, sounds like they were not as ready for that as they had hoped to be.  

Quote

When the virus has run its course (it will never be totally gone) then your son can transition back into school. 

The school is offering the first 9 weeks or semester online, this is not for the entire school year.  That is all we signed him up for.  At this point the school has extended the signups for the online option 3 times now.  

[Ravin R10 man]

William, You and Mrs., knowing what your childs needs are, I believe keeping him home was the right call. Given the reasons stated, he would be at a higher risk than most. Good Luck with the schooling at home.

[elkoholic]

5 hours ago, wtnhunt said:

He also cannot hold down any type of medicine.  You as a pharmacist should be able to understand and appreciate that.

I'm not sure I understand it, but I do appreciate the fact that there are people who can not keep any medication down.  We have several adult patients at our pharmacy who struggle with that.  They can drink Everclear and/or eat Durian and Stinking Toe fruit or poorly prepared Lutefisk with no problem but gag up any type or form of medicine.  No, thinking about it, I really don't understand.

Yes, I do believe you made the best decision for your child.  The challenge of raising a child is difficult enough without adding obstacles to the equation, but it looks like you and the Mrs have it under control.

[wtnhunt]

On 7/24/2020 at 9:04 PM, elkoholic said:

but I do appreciate the fact that there are people who can not keep any medication down. 

It is a real challenge when he gets a fever.  I hope this will get better when he gets older.

Our governor has rejected Dr Deborah Birx and other white house covid task force recommendations.  Tennessee has made it to the top in the country in one regard, not one that is good https://www.wkrn.com/community/health/coronavirus/pediatric-covid-19-cases-surge-in-tennessee/.

At this point with 37 new cases in the county today and most days this week in the 20's, the school does not meet criteria to open at full capacity.  Numbers here are still going upwards.

 

[wtnhunt]

Well it's happening.  Two Tennessee schools have already had to shut down after being open less than two weeks.  

Cases here have not slowed down.  The first local child death just being reported today, a 6 year old little girl.  Knew it was coming, still sad to hear.  

[wtnhunt]

We don't get much in the local news on our county with regards to schools, but while scrolling stories on google found and read a news report this morning that the middle school our 14 year old was in last year has teachers that are positive for covid.  Schools have not opened to students yet due to being delayed 2 weeks.  At this point, the transmission rate here in our county is more than 4 times higher than what is specified as acceptable by the cdc for opening.  There is only one county in the state of 95 that is within acceptable range. 

Also saw a report last night on our local news that over 7000 students had signed up to be online or distant learning in the county schools where we get the news from, some 5000 students would be going for on campus classes.  Guess in a way that is good for the schools in that it might alleviate some of the overcrowding.  Would be nice if our schools would give us more feedback in these regards, but they have been very quiet.

 

[BeauxLisp]

I won't ever let my child take the risk of getting infected by the virus no matter how low the fatalities on children. I'll just home school my kids.

[wtnhunt]

While statewide new case numbers are not as bad the past few days, rural areas continue to be well above the threshold the cdc recommends.

Several schools in this area that opened have had to shut right back down and move to distant/virtual learning.  Our schools open here tomorrow.  I would be willing to bet they don't make it 3 weeks before they have to shut at least one of the three down.