BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

[horst]

BBS, I had a feeling you may not reply in the other topic so i done the research for you.Heres what your stricter gun laws do to lower the crime rate.Heres DC and some statistics on it.

[ QUOTE ]

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

Firearm deaths, 2000:

149 (166 in '98)

Rate per 100,000:

28.7

Concealed weapons law: There is no permit system to acquire a permit to carry a hidden handgun.

Brady Law: N/A

Purchase limitations: The purchase of guns is prohibited in Washington, D.C.

Licensing: All firearms must be registered with District law enforcement.

Possession by minors: D.C. does not allow for private possession of weapons unless the gun was registered prior to Sept. 24, 1976.

Gun storage: There is no Child Access Prevention (CAP) or safe storage laws in the District.

Waiting period: The Chief has 60 days to approve or deny an application for a registration certificate.

[/ QUOTE ]

DANG, its almost impossible to legally buy a gun there and the rate per 100,000 deaths by firearms is 28.7

I live in Iowa, theres guns in about every household, permits are easy to get, and even kids can legally run around with firearms.Shall we take a look??

[ QUOTE ]

IOWA

Firearm deaths, 2000:

190 (195 in '98)

Rate per 100,000:

6.6

Concealed weapons law: Iowa is a "may issue" state. Carrying a concealed weapon is permitted but only with a permit issued by police. The applicant must show need and permits may be restricted to certain times and places.

Brady Law: The state performs background checks on handgun purchasers. All rifle and shotgun purchasers are checked by the National Instant Check System (NICS).

Licensing: A permit is needed to purchase a handgun.

Possession by minors: 21 is the minimum age for possession of a handgun; however, persons 14 years or older may posssess a handgun if under adult supervision and with permission of parent or guardian. 18 is the minimum age to possess a long gun, unless accompanied by a parent, guardian, or other person with the express consent of parent or guardian, in which case there is no minimum age.

Gun storage: (Enacted 1990) It is a crime to store or leave a loaded firearm within the reach or easy access of a minor, defined as persons under the age of 14. The law applies only if the minor gains access to the gun. The statute also specifically states that the law does not apply if the firearm is stored in a locked box, secured with a trigger lock, or obtained by a minor through unlawful entry. The penalty is a misdemeanor.

Waiting period: There is up to a 3 day wait to receive a permit to purchase a handgun.

[/ QUOTE ]

OOOHH, 6.6 per 100,000 and guns are an everyday fact of life here.The majority of the people here either own, or have access to firearms.Im still waiting for you to enlighten me on how taking law abiding citicens guns away helps anything.If it seems like Im picking on you its cause I am.I hate it when people come in, make a bunch of garbage statements, and cant back em up.So Ill wait patiently for your reply

[fisherguy]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

LMBO what do you want to bet his reply includes the statement he is a Democrat, and that he just wants "clean debate"?

[carbonhunter]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

[ QUOTE ]

BBS, I had a feeling you may not reply in the other topic so i done the research for you.Heres what your stricter gun laws do to lower the crime rate.Heres DC and some statistics on it.

[ QUOTE ]

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

Firearm deaths, 2000:

149 (166 in '98)

Rate per 100,000:

28.7

Concealed weapons law: There is no permit system to acquire a permit to carry a hidden handgun.

Brady Law: N/A

Purchase limitations: The purchase of guns is prohibited in Washington, D.C.

Licensing: All firearms must be registered with District law enforcement.

Possession by minors: D.C. does not allow for private possession of weapons unless the gun was registered prior to Sept. 24, 1976.

Gun storage: There is no Child Access Prevention (CAP) or safe storage laws in the District.

Waiting period: The Chief has 60 days to approve or deny an application for a registration certificate.

[/ QUOTE ]

DANG, its almost impossible to legally buy a gun there and the rate per 100,000 deaths by firearms is 28.7

I live in Iowa, theres guns in about every household, permits are easy to get, and even kids can legally run around with firearms.Shall we take a look??

[ QUOTE ]

IOWA

Firearm deaths, 2000:

190 (195 in '98)

Rate per 100,000:

6.6

Concealed weapons law: Iowa is a "may issue" state. Carrying a concealed weapon is permitted but only with a permit issued by police. The applicant must show need and permits may be restricted to certain times and places.

Brady Law: The state performs background checks on handgun purchasers. All rifle and shotgun purchasers are checked by the National Instant Check System (NICS).

Licensing: A permit is needed to purchase a handgun.

Possession by minors: 21 is the minimum age for possession of a handgun; however, persons 14 years or older may posssess a handgun if under adult supervision and with permission of parent or guardian. 18 is the minimum age to possess a long gun, unless accompanied by a parent, guardian, or other person with the express consent of parent or guardian, in which case there is no minimum age.

Gun storage: (Enacted 1990) It is a crime to store or leave a loaded firearm within the reach or easy access of a minor, defined as persons under the age of 14. The law applies only if the minor gains access to the gun. The statute also specifically states that the law does not apply if the firearm is stored in a locked box, secured with a trigger lock, or obtained by a minor through unlawful entry. The penalty is a misdemeanor.

Waiting period: There is up to a 3 day wait to receive a permit to purchase a handgun.

[/ QUOTE ]

OOOHH, 6.6 per 100,000 and guns are an everyday fact of life here.The majority of the people here either own, or have access to firearms.Im still waiting for you to enlighten me on how taking law abiding citicens guns away helps anything.If it seems like Im picking on you its cause I am.I hate it when people come in, make a bunch of garbage statements, and cant back em up.So Ill wait patiently for your reply

[/ QUOTE ]

let me say first that i agree with what you are trying to say Horst, but compairing Washington D.C. to Iowa is rediculous.......its compairing a HUGE massive city in an area that anymore has about as many hunting options as my local metro park, to the corn capitol of the USA, and an area that is probobly what 65% farms?? places that always had and always will have guns behind the back door.

try compairing D.C. to say another large city...like Columbus, Ohio that has conceled carry.

[Guest IADEERDUDE]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

[ QUOTE ]

LMBO what do you want to bet his reply includes the statement he is a Democrat, and that he just wants "clean debate"?

[/ QUOTE ]

you can almost count on that one

LMBO "lets keep it clean"

[horst]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

[ QUOTE ]

let me say first that i agree with what you are trying to say Horst, but compairing Washington D.C. to Iowa is rediculous.......its compairing a HUGE massive city in an area that anymore has about as many hunting options as my local metro park, to the corn capitol of the USA, and an area that is probobly what 65% farms?? places that always had and always will have guns behind the back door

try compairing D.C. to say another large city...like Columbus, Ohio that has conceled carry

[/ QUOTE ]

But carbonhunter, Im comparing iowas population, which is 2,926,324 people as of the year 2000 to a popultion of only 572,059 in D.C. in the same year.Certainly with Iowa having more guns and that many more people we should have far more murders then D.C. going on the theory that its the law abiding citezens with guns causing the problem.

Just to humor you though I looked up Colubus ohio.Heres what I found .First the statewide stats for ohio itself.

[ QUOTE ]

OHIO

Firearm deaths, 2000:

890 (969 in '98)

Rate per 100,000:

7.9

Concealed weapons law: Carrying a concealed weapon is prohibited in this state.

Brady Law: Ohio uses the National Instant Check System to perform background checks on all firearm purchasers.

Purchase limitations: Ohio has no purchase limitations.

Licensing: Purchasers do not need a permit to acquire a firearm.

Possession by minors: No age restriction on possessing firearms.

Gun storage: There is no Child Access Prevention (CAP) or safe storage laws in the state.

Waiting period: There is no waiting period to acquire a firearm.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very liberal gun laws there.Everyone can apparently buy a gun at any time they want.Yet the death rate per 100,000 for the whole state is only 7.9 compared to D.C.s 28.7.Now the sight I found all this on only lists them by state so I had to look elsewhere for Colmbus gun statistics.Comparing them in the same year, which was 2000 Colubus had 77 gun related deaths compared to D.C.s 149 gun related deaths.So even comparing similiar areas and populations, the one with the most liberal gun laws only had roughly 1/2 the firearm related deaths that the area did where its virtually impossible to buy or legally own a gun.So, whatta you think now???

[horst]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

[ QUOTE ]

I say that i will respect anyone who respects me and i dont respect people like you!!!! fisherguy. you guys must like dirty debates or something because you always give me a hard time with what i say! What is the problem???????? Tell me please!

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, I been telling you the problem.You keep making statements that you dont back up.Ive respectfully asked you twice now to back up your statements about law abiding citezens gun right being trampled on lowering the crime rate.You havent answered so i went ahead and did the research for you.Your still avoiding the question.So for the last time, PLEASE, explain your position on this or else quit posting statements like fisherguy quoted you as saying.Ive dedicated this whole post to you, let me have it, lets here some facts, no more lame comments, just something that will back up anything you say would be nice.

[fisherguy]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

BIGBUCKSHOOTER sorry to have offended you, but you proved the point. YOu got mad at me and mentioned nothing about the debate horst tried to start.

[buckee]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

BBS...I have a favourite saying that applies to this thread and others you have posted in lately....."Drive it or Park it"

With all due respect BBS, if you want to give your opinion on a topic, then give it, if you have nothing to say besides saying what a good debator you are and never really saying anything at all, then park it.

I'm saying this for your own benefit bud. If you have no input, then don't putin.

[carbonhunter]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

let me say first that i agree with what you are trying to say Horst, but compairing Washington D.C. to Iowa is rediculous.......its compairing a HUGE massive city in an area that anymore has about as many hunting options as my local metro park, to the corn capitol of the USA, and an area that is probobly what 65% farms?? places that always had and always will have guns behind the back door

try compairing D.C. to say another large city...like Columbus, Ohio that has conceled carry

[/ QUOTE ]

But carbonhunter, Im comparing iowas population, which is 2,926,324 people as of the year 2000 to a popultion of only 572,059 in D.C. in the same year.Certainly with Iowa having more guns and that many more people we should have far more murders then D.C. going on the theory that its the law abiding citezens with guns causing the problem.

Just to humor you though I looked up Colubus ohio.Heres what I found .First the statewide stats for ohio itself.

[ QUOTE ]

OHIO

Firearm deaths, 2000:

890 (969 in '98)

Rate per 100,000:

7.9

Concealed weapons law: Carrying a concealed weapon is prohibited in this state.

Brady Law: Ohio uses the National Instant Check System to perform background checks on all firearm purchasers.

Purchase limitations: Ohio has no purchase limitations.

Licensing: Purchasers do not need a permit to acquire a firearm.

Possession by minors: No age restriction on possessing firearms.

Gun storage: There is no Child Access Prevention (CAP) or safe storage laws in the state.

Waiting period: There is no waiting period to acquire a firearm.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very liberal gun laws there.Everyone can apparently buy a gun at any time they want.Yet the death rate per 100,000 for the whole state is only 7.9 compared to D.C.s 28.7.Now the sight I found all this on only lists them by state so I had to look elsewhere for Colmbus gun statistics.Comparing them in the same year, which was 2000 Colubus had 77 gun related deaths compared to D.C.s 149 gun related deaths.So even comparing similiar areas and populations, the one with the most liberal gun laws only had roughly 1/2 the firearm related deaths that the area did where its virtually impossible to buy or legally own a gun.So, whatta you think now???

[/ QUOTE ]

There is still no compairison....what is the pop. density of D.C. to Iowa its apples to oranges.

I'm going to trip up your "fact sheet" here Horst, it IS LEGAL to conc. carry here, and you cant buy any centerfire gun untill the age of 18(shotguns/muzzleloaders) and 21 (center fire rifles/handguns)

the conc. carry law is new...but I know for a fact that there are age limits and have been for years( I was 17 in 2000 and still had to have dad buy my shotguns)

and if ya want to give me the go back and read the first sentence in my post.

[horst]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

Carbon, the fact sheets not mine, it came from a link CBS news has up, imagine, the media led me astray and gave me bad information concerning gun laws But it didnt say minors could buy guns, it just said they can possess them.Dont take the personally, I at everyone see

[carbonhunter]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

[ QUOTE ]

Carbon, the fact sheets not mine, it came from a link CBS news has up, imagine, the media led me astray and gave me bad information concerning gun laws But it didnt say minors could buy guns, it just said they can possess them.Dont take the personally, I at everyone see

[/ QUOTE ]

No horst i should have waited till this morning to respond....sorry if i came off wrong.

[johnf]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

If you want a "real" comparison you need to be focusing on similar populations. Take Dallas, Ft. Worth or Little Rock AR. Use their statistics then compare them with DC. Not the whole state, that's an unfair comparison. While I don't agree with BBS's philosophy, he is right in saying that it is comparing apples and oranges when you use an intire rural state with a major metropolitan area.

You could have used Pine Bluff Arkansas which has the same gun laws that I have. All we have to do to conceal & Carry is take a test and pay $140 a year for the permit. One year they had the highest crime rate per capita in the country, while Arkansas as a whole is one of the lowest.

I don't think that more gun laws lower the crime rate at all. But he is correct in saying that it is not a viable comparison.

[horst]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

[ QUOTE ]

There is still no compairison....what is the pop. density of D.C. to Iowa its apples to oranges.

[/ QUOTE ]

Carbon, actually Des Moines got around 500,000 people in it and the metro area surrounding it.Lotsa cities with over 100,00 people in em, Davenport, Souix City, Cedar Rapids.Its mostly farmland like you said but not everyone lives in the country.Not trying to start an argument, I still think the comparisons a fair one though in light of the subject.

[carbonhunter]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

[ QUOTE ]

While I don't agree with BBS's philosophy, he is right in saying that it is comparing apples and oranges when you use an intire rural state with a major metropolitan area.

[/ QUOTE ]

know that will start a fight.

[carbonhunter]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

There is still no compairison....what is the pop. density of D.C. to Iowa its apples to oranges.

[/ QUOTE ]

Carbon, actually Des Moines got around 500,000 people in it and the metro area surrounding it.Lotsa cities with over 100,00 people in em, Davenport, Souix City, Cedar Rapids.Its mostly farmland like you said but not everyone lives in the country.Not trying to start an argument, I still think the comparisons a fair one though in light of the subject.

[/ QUOTE ]

My father was the third shift crime beat reporter in Davneport, and I spend a ton of time in DesMoines every year. You make it sound like a pleasent place, i remember seeing the blood covered over boots he used to keep in the trunk of his car and I've read the articals and know of things he saw that he still dosnt talk about without getting sick. That town alone sickened my dad of crime/police journalism. I'm not going to look up the statistics of those two cities, but i bet they look alot like D.C. on a smaller scale.

Where my family there lives, EVERYONE has a gun and ya never hear of a shooting, its called life ont he farm.

D.C. to Iowa....nope its apples to oranges and that was my point alone.

[slugshooter]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

I too disagree with the comparison of a rural midwest state with an large urban east coast city that has always had a high crime rate. It's no secret that Washington D.C. has a high crime rate, been that way ever since I can remember. I did some numbers with the ones given and instead of the percent or whatever per 100,00 given I did how many per ever person. DC was one for every 3839 people and Iowa's was one in every 15401. But that doesn't mean anything since the population of Iowa in 2000 was 5 times greater than that of Washington D.C.

As far as the issue of minors possessing a firearm, a kid under the age of 18 has no business toting any type of firearm around without a responsible adult present. It will be a cold day in Hades before I let my son (if I have one) go anywhere with a firearm without me with him. Besides, if you can't buy one until you are 18 what gives you the right to have one in your possession. Think about it, it is illegal to purchase cigarettes until you are 18, thus it is illegal to smoke them or possess them, although it is not enforced because the police have better things to worry about.

[wtnhunt]

Re: BIGBUCKSHOOTER, some statistics for ya

Typical democrat replies bigbuck. Try to avoid the subject. Horst posts some stats very pertinent to gun control and you claim it is a "dirty debate"???

Bottom line and it is pretty interesting to me at least to see how the numbers in big cities where stiffer gun control is present have higher violent crimes and assaults than where significant gun control is not present. Go figure.