slugshooter Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Hendrick chiefs' suspensions overturned on appeal By Marty Smith March 23, 2005 Hendrick Motorsports crew chiefs Chad Knaus and Alan Gustafson had their suspensions overturned Tuesday by a majority vote of the National Stock Car Racing Commission. Both must still pay a monetary fine and serve a 90-day probationary period, but are otherwise cleared to lead their teams next weekend at Bristol Motor Speedway. The Commission did uphold NASCAR's decision to dock drivers Jimmie Johnson and Kyle Busch 25 championship points, and also upheld the decision to penalize car owners Jeff Gordon and Rick Hendrick 25 car owner points. Knaus, crew chief for Johnson's No. 48 Chevrolet, and Gustafson, crew chief for Busch's No. 5 Chevy, were each suspended for two races after their respective machines failed to meet height requirements in post race inspection March 13 at Las Vegas Motor Speedway. The roof on Knaus' Chevrolet was too low. The rear quarter panels on Gustafson's Chevrolet were too high. Hendrick Motorsports appealed both suspensions, and Tuesday went before a three-member board to state their case. Both prevailed. Knaus' $35,000 fine was upheld, as was Gustafson's $25,000 fine. Their respective probationary periods began Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Hendricks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned So NASCAR is sending the message that it's ok to cheat. You'll just get a slap on the wrist. Hard to believe cheating and winning a race only costs $10,000 more than saying the s-bomb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deldeer Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned haa !!!!!!!!....like i said nascar KNEW they made a big mistake!!!!!!...they did'nt overturn it because they were right !!!!!... of coarse they will never admit to it. so instead of making it look like a huge blunder on their part they kept the fines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned So its ok for Hendrick cars to cheat but not RCR? That sounds about right.....They must have seen that tear running down Jimmys cheak and felt sorry for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned [ QUOTE ] So its ok for Hendrick cars to cheat but not RCR? That sounds about right..... [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, true Nick. And to think, Harvick RACED with a LEGAL car. That is the worst call NASCAR's ever made. "No big deal guy, you won with an illegal car. We'll at 1/10th of what you made this weekend and call it even, OK?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deldeer Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned sounds fair to me!!!!! ........nascar screwed up on that penalty.....get over it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned [ QUOTE ] sounds fair to me!!!!! ........nascar screwed up on that penalty.....get over it.... [/ QUOTE ] How? Should an illegal car not be penalized? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedicast Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned It's typical of Nascar. I don't care what they say, they have their favorites, and Harvick is definately not one of them. That was proven when he dumped one of the gibbs boys in a truck race, and Nascar sat him from the cup race. That was probably the biggest BS penalty they have ever handed out. Nascar has absolutely no consisteny in their penalties. And they just proved it by overturning the Knaus, and Gustafson suspensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deldeer Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned they took points & money....not that money is a big deal to them........i just think it is a gray area there about car height, they do end up lowered at the end of races at certain tracks, thats a fact. they only check the first 5 cars, they said they can't check them all because to many would fail...nascar overturned it because of that. now if you get caught using illegal parts or cutting down your spoiler thats a little different, & if harvick's crew chief would shut his big moth they probably would not been so hard on them either.....you don't tell nascar "i will do it again because i know how you caught me this time" .... i think that was a little dumb on his part..... just my take on it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned This is rediculous...its ok to penalize one team TWICE...but slap the team on the wrists for an illegal car? NASCAR is a joke anymore...no wonder I'm getting tired of watching it!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned There is a tolerance that a car NEEDS to be in. The car wasn't. That is no gray area. This is just another form of inconsistency. I can't believe Junior saying "crap" was nearly as bad as an illegal car winning the race. This is BS. It ain't that it's Hendrick either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned I guess as long as you "act" like you know nothing about it...its ok. However, if you don't at least pretend to show that your sorry or act surprised that something is illegal...then you get hammered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedicast Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned Nascar just needs to be more consistent in dishing out punishment. It shouldn't matter if your name is Jeff Gordon, or Robby Gordon. Dale Earnhardt Jr. or Morgan Shepherd. It shouldn't matter if you have a $20,000,000 a year sponsor, or if you are unsponsored. The penalties should be the same across the board, for the same type of infraction. And its not even close to that. Nascar needs some thing like a 3 strike rule. 1st time you break the rules, points and fine, second time, bigger fine, and more points. 3rd time, driver, and team sit a week. If there is a 4th...the team and driver is done for the year. No ifs, ands, or buts. how many teams will try sneaking something through then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned [ QUOTE ] Nascar needs some thing like a 3 strike rule. 1st time you break the rules, points and fine, second time, bigger fine, and more points. 3rd time, driver, and team sit a week. If there is a 4th...the team and driver is done for the year. No ifs, ands, or buts. how many teams will try sneaking something through then? [/ QUOTE ] But, but...thats too strict! Me and you think a lot alike. Chad should have been suspended, no if's, and's or but's. And Berrier is still suspended 4 races after his car PASSED post-race inspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedicast Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Nascar needs some thing like a 3 strike rule. 1st time you break the rules, points and fine, second time, bigger fine, and more points. 3rd time, driver, and team sit a week. If there is a 4th...the team and driver is done for the year. No ifs, ands, or buts. how many teams will try sneaking something through then? [/ QUOTE ] But, but...thats too strict! Me and you think a lot alike. Chad should have been suspended, no if's, and's or but's. And Berrier is still suspended 4 races after his car PASSED post-race inspection. [/ QUOTE ] It almost seems like Nascar is starting to pamper these teams like MLB, NFL, and NBA pamper their prima donna superstars! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned Being a Gordon Fan, I can honestly say that this was a bad call by The National Stock Car Racing Commission. To me if a car is out of spec. it's not a legal car and should be fine and/or suspended in accordance...JMO But with this being said let me hammer on RCR for a minute, tell me if you agree with this statement that RCR has made to the media and NASCAR. [ QUOTE ] RCR maintains that because the infraction was during qualifying, points should not be deducted. [/ QUOTE ] I sure dont, for this reason qualifying is part of the race as this is how you will start the race, so in my mind this is part of the race in itself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedicast Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned [ QUOTE ] Being a Gordon Fan, I can honestly say that this was a bad call by The National Stock Car Racing Commission. To me if a car is out of spec. it's not a legal car and should be fine and/or suspended in accordance...JMO But with this being said let me hammer on RCR for a minute, tell me if you agree with this statement that RCR has made to the media and NASCAR. [ QUOTE ] RCR maintains that because the infraction was during qualifying, points should not be deducted. [/ QUOTE ] I sure dont, for this reason qualifying is part of the race as this is how you will start the race, so in my mind this is part of the race in itself... [/ QUOTE ] I pretty much agree with you here VH, but Harvick was penalized twice. He had to start at the back of the pack..Penalty 1, and the after race penalty, and suspension...penalty 2. I do agree that RCR should have been severely penalized. They cheated. They admitted they cheated. I don't think R.C. has a lot to complain about. On the other hand, I do believe Harvick draws more severe penalties from Nascar. Case in point... The Martinsville truck race incident that I mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned Harvick's time was disallowed. He started last. Points should not have been taken away because points are not awarded for qualifying. Points are entirely based on the results of the race. And Harvick's car was perfectly legal at the end of the race. Fine? Yes. Points and suspension? No. Like I've said before... Qualifying Infraction - Big fines, say $100,000 to $250,000 depending on the severity. No points deductions or suspensions IF the car was then legal after the race. Race Infraction - If the car fails tech, for ANY reason, 50 points for the first offense (+25 more after that), $250,000 fine and crew chief suspension for 2 to 5 races, depending on severity. Minor Infraction - Fines only. Swearing, for instance. Why take away points if a driver fairly won a race with a legal car and had a slip of the tongue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned [ QUOTE ] I do agree that RCR should have been severely penalized. They cheated. They admitted they cheated. [/ QUOTE ] $500,000 because it was an illegal part. Fine the CC the money and no one else. Don't take away points or his CC. They finished the race with a legal car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned [ QUOTE ] Harvick was penalized twice. He had to start at the back of the pack..Penalty 1, and the after race penalty, and suspension...penalty 2. [/ QUOTE ] This was another bad handling of penalties by NASCAR......I think becuase the infraction was so blatent, they actually had no clue how to handle the situation at that very moment......and my opinion Harvick himself wasn't penalized but the car owned by RCR, he didn't loose any points at that time just had to start at the rear of the field,,,,,,a real bad handling of the situation altogether by NASCAR.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaDeerHunter Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned I'll explain it all for you, maybe, Nascar sucks on there penalties! They will fine one person for cussing, then fine another person that cheated during the race just about as much! They need harsher penalties, and suspensions is how to do it. Maybe not for each infaction, or the first inferaction though. Or more points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned [ QUOTE ] Harvick's time was disallowed. He started last. Points should not have been taken away because points are not awarded for qualifying. Points are entirely based on the results of the race. And Harvick's car was perfectly legal at the end of the race. [/ QUOTE ] Chrud lets take this senario to it's conclusion and say Harvick and his team hadn't been cuaght and they won the race becuase they started up front,,,,which in my mind he would have done his car was definately one of the best in the field that race..... Now he cheated to get that win and accumilated all kinds of winning and postional points. Did or didn't the infraction play a part in the race ??? I think it would have.... Im not going to pretend that I know more about the technical aspect of the sport than you, becuase you and I both thats not the case you have far more knowledge than I.....but cheating is cheating wether it's done post race, during the race, or even after the race and should be handled in the same fashion in my opinion....I don't care if it's Gordon right down to the no name driver,,,,,I think NASCAR blew this all the way around......and think that these teams really need to bit hit where it really hurts and thats RACE TIME and POINTS, not the wallets of the Multi Million Dollar Corporations becuase money is no object to them, they'll pay these fines all week long....JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned Then, I would have been in favor of points, money and a crew chief suspension. Because that infraction would not have been caught during qualifying. If it would be snuck by the tech's during qualifying, then I wouldn't even consider it in that class anymore. My "view" about penalties is assuming that the infraction is caught at the right time, like at Vegas. Harvick - Caught in qualifying. Time disallowed, starts 42nd. Then races to a top-10 finish with a legal car. Everything about his car during the race was perfectly fine. He was already penalized by being forced to the rear. Drop a $500,000 fine on the crew chief and team because that was a big time violation. I can guarantee you it wouldn't happen again. You penalized them because they tried to cheat in qualifying. But, they didn't try to cheat in the race. Why take away what they did in the race with a legal car? 48/5 Teams - Cars did not pass inspection AFTER the race. It should be the crew chief's responsibility to make sure the car will be in spec before, during and after the race. It is not the driver's fault if the car is out of spec. Take away 50 points for this first infraction. Also, suspend the crew chief for 2 races and drop a $250,000 fine to the team. Want the sport to stay clean and keep what intengrity it has left? Hit cheaters with big fines and penalties. Dale Jr - He said "crap" in a post-race interview. That had NOTHING to do with his race performance. Why take away what he just EARNED? Drop a $75,000 fine for language. It seems like a couple of people are still overlooking the fact that the 48 car got caught with an illegal adjustment during the race also. Remember the pit stop when NASCAR had FORCED them to knock the fender flare back in in front of the right rear wheel? You can tug on it but they went way too far. After all that, PLUS this new crock, I won't give Jimmie Johnson credit for the "win" in Vegas. He's a great driver, but I don't like him because of his ego. And now that he got caught cheating TWICE in the Vegas race and is basically getting nothing for it, I have lost almost all respect for Jimmie Johnson and the Lowe's team. Never thought I'd see the day when I proclaim Jeff Gordon as my by far my favorite driver in the Hendrick stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedicast Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: Small victory for Hendrick. Suspensions overturned [ QUOTE ] Harvick - Caught in qualifying. Time disallowed, starts 42nd. Then races to a top-10 finish with a legal car. Everything about his car during the race was perfectly fine. He was already penalized by being forced to the rear. Drop a $500,000 fine on the crew chief and team because that was a big time violation. I can guarantee you it wouldn't happen again. You penalized them because they tried to cheat in qualifying. But, they didn't try to cheat in the race. Why take away what they did in the race with a legal car? [/ QUOTE ] You make a perfectly legitimate point there Chrud. But I think the severness of that penalty had to do with how Blatant the cheating was. [ QUOTE ] 48/5 Teams - Cars did not pass inspection AFTER the race. It should be the crew chief's responsibility to make sure the car will be in spec before, during and after the race. It is not the driver's fault if the car is out of spec. Take away 50 points for this first infraction. Also, suspend the crew chief for 2 races and drop a $250,000 fine to the team. Want the sport to stay clean and keep what intengrity it has left? Hit cheaters with big fines and penalties. [/ QUOTE ] My opinion on this, is that on the #5 car, Nascar dropped the ball on prerace inspection. This is not something that was adjustable, it was in the fabrication of the body. Not saying it makes it ok, I'm just very surprised it got by in pre race inspection. On the #48 car....absolutely any adjustment you make on the car, wedge in or out, track bar adjustment, tire pressure, they all affect the height of the car. It doesn't take much to be 1/8 low. but,, the team knows this too. They know what every single turn of a wedge bolt, or track bar adjustment does to this car. It is their responsibility to know the car will be legal at the end of the race. [ QUOTE ] Dale Jr - He said "crap" in a post-race interview. That had NOTHING to do with his race performance. Why take away what he just EARNED? Drop a $75,000 fine for language. [/ QUOTE ] couldn't agree more. Jr. was a victim of Nascar trying to get as far away as it can from its "redneck" roots. A politally correct nascar sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.