TreeStandBowHunter Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert I have been. You should also know the accusations that they are giving about her husband are mostly bogus...thats another reason the courts won't accept it. What does that have to do with a vegetable who is suffering for the last 15 years. Let them insert it, who cares anyway. This is a family issue, not a world issue. We have bigger and better news to report about. The US and Iraqi army killed 85 some insurgents the other day. Sadly, this news was more popular than that was. I am done with this, some of you just jumped on the pitty pitty band wagon that her parents wanted anyway. This is not aimed at you Stever or hgirl. This is aimed at the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert I haven't kept up with this, nor should I. Like TSBH stated, this is a family issue, not a world issue. But I have a question, I have asked it before, got no answer, will ask again. When does a parents "rights" to their child end and a spouses begins? Is that not why people get married, to have a family of their own???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert I can understand where your coming from Mike. It must be hard for you to even give this issue the time of day, when you have seen so much death around you for the past couple of years. I didn't take offence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert [ QUOTE ] When does a parents "rights" to their child end and a spouses begins? Is that not why people get married, to have a family of their own???? [/ QUOTE ] I understand what your saying Gator and agree to an extent, but, if and when, in a case like this, where the husbands motives, charactor and past record may cast a different light on the picture....who gets to speak for Terry then?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] When does a parents "rights" to their child end and a spouses begins? Is that not why people get married, to have a family of their own???? [/ QUOTE ] I understand what your saying Gator and agree to an extent, but, if and when, in a case like this, where the husbands motives, charactor and past record may cast a different light on the picture....who gets to speak for Terry then?? [/ QUOTE ] buckee, this was more of a broader question than just what is going on with the Schiavo fiasco. I am just kinda curious as to everyones thoughts on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert [ QUOTE ] I can understand where your coming from Mike. It must be hard for you to even give this issue the time of day, when you have seen so much death around you for the past couple of years. I didn't take offence [/ QUOTE ] Look gator, I can't answer your question man. Buckee, your right, this doesn't really bother me at all, not after seeing burnt up American Marines. All I know is I HOPE I am never in a situation like this rather it be on his end or the parents end. Either way it has to be hard on both...maybe more than the other but anywho...I guess the question is when do we (as in they) quit! What is the quitting point on something like this? I can't answer this. This is a question that needs answered by them, not anybody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJL Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert I say my prayers every night............... I give my children hugs every day........just like God hugs us every day. And I can only imagine what the loss of a child would be like............... especially............. if one has no faith in God. It doesn't matter whether that child is 5 minutes old, 5 yeras old , or 50 years old. The loss of something you live for is very ............ I can't find the right word...... It might be ....shocking...saddening....humbling... illogic..... or even faith testing. I feel sorry for her parents. I've never been there, but, I do believe that there comes a time when you trust in God............... I hope that they find it................. I pray that the courts are trusting in God as well. We'll get the answers soon enough........for all of us. JJL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert I can't understand why we keep inmates on death row for years and years (sometimes never put to death) and taxpayers don't get upset over it. However, take a woman who didn't commit any crime and there are folks who don't want to pay to keep her alive!!!!!!!! I don't know what the right answer is...I can see both sides, but personally I say...if you want to kill her, do it quick and painless. Starving to death isn't humane. We as hunters wouldn't do this to a deer or other game...why is it ok to do it to a human? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinserted Thank you apmaurosr, and once again, welcome to the Realtree forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nut Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinserted It is things like this that I hope and pray that one day while I am in the woods that I die in private without much notice except to my family so they can move on with their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert [ QUOTE ] I had a revelation this morning. We don't really need to pray for Terri Schiavo as badly as we need to pray for her "husband". I believe that God will take care of her, but as for Mike Schiavo...I'm getting the feeling that he's not a very popular person right now and is probably receiving death threats. We need to pray that WHATEVER happens, his heart is right with the Lord. And yes, I think it should be reinserted, but that looks like it will never happen now. God bless her parents. [/ QUOTE ] I had a revalation to.We shouldnt be sitting here debating this womans fate, were all entitled to our opinions but arguing about the outcome is somehow morbid.The media should never have gotten involved in this case.The courts should have refused to ever take this case.Theres to much misinformation on both sides for the public to even form a logical opinion.This was and should have stayed a family matter, the parents, the husband, and her doctors should have worked this out.The fact that the whole country is now sitting around waiting for this women to die is wrong on so many levels Im not even goin into it.We must all be pretty hard up for entertainment to follow this so closely I gave my opinion in the other post, Im done.God bless everyone involved, im sure it hasnt been easy on any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaDeerHunter Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert horst you have a very good point. There is more people out there like her not just her, why did she become so big??? I am for letting her live. My parents are for letting her die. i don't like to argue with them, or debate over a subject like this. I have my opinion and there is no way my opinion will make a difference to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinserted [ QUOTE ] MYTH: Terri has been in a persistent vegetative state, a coma, or is terminally ill, for 13 years. FACT: NO. Terri is disabled and has brain damage, but is not in PVS, coma, or terminally ill. [/ QUOTE ] If this is true than why does every doctors report I have ever heard about this case say her cerebral cortex has liquified and her brain has shrunk. Now, I am no doctor, but I don't think a cerebral cortex can go back to being a solid after turning into a liquid. [ QUOTE ] MYTH: This is just a "religious" issue. FACT: NO. While Terri's religious rights have definitely been criminally denied, it is fundamentally a disability issue in which her civil rights as a disabled citizen have also been denied. [/ QUOTE ] It has become a religous issue by the sanctity of life crowd. It became a religous issue because her parents made it one. It has become a bigger issue than it needs to be. The removal of feeding tubes is nothing new and the practice has been done in Texas to mentally handicapped patients. If our government, who is willing to seriously overstep their bounds in getting involved in this for political gain were to outlaw the removal of feeding tubes, this country will be in worse financial shape than it is right now. [ QUOTE ] MYTH: Food and hydration are "extraordinary means", and thus a patient has the right to refuse. FACT: NO. For Catholics, it is morally permissible to refuse extraordinary means, but not morally permissible to refuse ordinary means, or palliative care (including food and hydration). [/ QUOTE ] 30 years ago a feeding tube was considered extraordinary means, when did they change their minds. Heck, using birth control is still a no-no in the Catholic church, but some more devious things aren't. [ QUOTE ] MYTH: A husband always makes surrogate medical decisions for his disabled incompetent wife that are based solely on her best interests. FACT: NO. It is well known and documented that many family members of disabled patients are tired of their difficult situation and want to get rid of the problem (i.e., the disabled patient). [/ QUOTE ] Michael Schiavo is the legal husband of Terry Schiavo, whether anyone likes it or not, and therefore is responsible for her care and all decisions regarding her care. If the courts are going to disregard the husbands wishes and decision in this case, then it sets a dangerous precedent in all cases involving the rights of a spouse to make decisions. If this is overturned there is only going to be another case dealing with a similar issue and circumstances. [ QUOTE ] -- There are legal submissions to the court, including by nurses who cared for Terri, concerning her husband's abuse of Terri. [/ QUOTE ] Is this the same nurse who claimed she gave Terry Schiavo pudding and other semi-solid food even though her condition makes it impossible to have anything put in the tube except liquid nourishment. If this nurse were legit and admitting to something like that she should be fired. Also, if they did see her husband abusing her, why didn't they call the police and have him arrested. These nurses statements are completely uncredible and unfounded. [ QUOTE ] -- There are conflicts of interests with the husband's lawyer and the judge because of direct as well as indirect ties to the Florida euthanasia lobbyists and hospices. [/ QUOTE ] Thats a new one. I find it interesting that all the facts you posted either came from the website terrisfight.org or something associated with the catholic church. How about something independent and unbiased. I firmly believe that the husband has the right to the decision making process, I do not agree with starving her to death, but I also firmly believe that after 15 years she has no chance of getting better. They need to find a more humane way of letting her go. Welcome to the forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadHuntinPastor Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinserted [ QUOTE ] Michael Schiavo is the legal husband of Terry Schiavo, whether anyone likes it or not, and therefore is responsible for her care and all decisions regarding her care. If the courts are going to disregard the husbands wishes and decision in this case, then it sets a dangerous precedent in all cases involving the rights of a spouse to make decisions. [/ QUOTE ] Well I think the opposite is more dangerous. Since this is going forward we will continue to press the envelope like we do with everything. It will soon be up to a spouse to say yes you can try and save my spouse from a heart attack or stroke or car accident. We should always use our technology for life. The courts gave the husband permission to starve her to death. Basically someone could stand there and watch their wife or kid die without helping and it would be okay in some of your eyes. You are arguing that we should let nature take it's course....then let's close down all the hospitals and if you get hurt then ooops....it sucks to be you. Nature obviously wanted to take it's course on that person. Think about it....my wife just had a baby and what if she had complications while under anesthetics and couldn't answer for herself and I said well nature is taking it's course don't help her. Sounds like murder to me. We are opening a can of worms but not the can that was suggested in the quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinserted [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Michael Schiavo is the legal husband of Terry Schiavo, whether anyone likes it or not, and therefore is responsible for her care and all decisions regarding her care. If the courts are going to disregard the husbands wishes and decision in this case, then it sets a dangerous precedent in all cases involving the rights of a spouse to make decisions. [/ QUOTE ] Well I think the opposite is more dangerous. Since this is going forward we will continue to press the envelope like we do with everything. It will soon be up to a spouse to say yes you can try and save my spouse from a heart attack or stroke or car accident. We should always use our technology for life. The courts gave the husband permission to starve her to death. Basically someone could stand there and watch their wife or kid die without helping and it would be okay in some of your eyes. You are arguing that we should let nature take it's course....then let's close down all the hospitals and if you get hurt then ooops....it sucks to be you. Nature obviously wanted to take it's course on that person. Think about it....my wife just had a baby and what if she had complications while under anesthetics and couldn't answer for herself and I said well nature is taking it's course don't help her. Sounds like murder to me. We are opening a can of worms but not the can that was suggested in the quote. [/ QUOTE ] Is this any different than Jehovahs Witnesses not wanting blood transfusions, or Christian Scientists not wanting medical care. It is great to trust the Lord and everything and believe in miracles. I believe in them myself, but eventually you have to just let go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] MYTH: Terri has been in a persistent vegetative state, a coma, or is terminally ill, for 13 years. FACT: NO. Terri is disabled and has brain damage, but is not in PVS, coma, or terminally ill. [/ QUOTE ] If this is true than why does every doctors report I have ever heard about this case say her cerebral cortex has liquified and her brain has shrunk. Now, I am no doctor, but I don't think a cerebral cortex can go back to being a solid after turning into a liquid. [ QUOTE ] MYTH: This is just a "religious" issue. FACT: NO. While Terri's religious rights have definitely been criminally denied, it is fundamentally a disability issue in which her civil rights as a disabled citizen have also been denied. [/ QUOTE ] It has become a religous issue by the sanctity of life crowd. It became a religous issue because her parents made it one. It has become a bigger issue than it needs to be. The removal of feeding tubes is nothing new and the practice has been done in Texas to mentally handicapped patients. If our government, who is willing to seriously overstep their bounds in getting involved in this for political gain were to outlaw the removal of feeding tubes, this country will be in worse financial shape than it is right now. [ QUOTE ] MYTH: Food and hydration are "extraordinary means", and thus a patient has the right to refuse. FACT: NO. For Catholics, it is morally permissible to refuse extraordinary means, but not morally permissible to refuse ordinary means, or palliative care (including food and hydration). [/ QUOTE ] 30 years ago a feeding tube was considered extraordinary means, when did they change their minds. Heck, using birth control is still a no-no in the Catholic church, but some more devious things aren't. [ QUOTE ] MYTH: A husband always makes surrogate medical decisions for his disabled incompetent wife that are based solely on her best interests. FACT: NO. It is well known and documented that many family members of disabled patients are tired of their difficult situation and want to get rid of the problem (i.e., the disabled patient). [/ QUOTE ] Michael Schiavo is the legal husband of Terry Schiavo, whether anyone likes it or not, and therefore is responsible for her care and all decisions regarding her care. If the courts are going to disregard the husbands wishes and decision in this case, then it sets a dangerous precedent in all cases involving the rights of a spouse to make decisions. If this is overturned there is only going to be another case dealing with a similar issue and circumstances. [ QUOTE ] -- There are legal submissions to the court, including by nurses who cared for Terri, concerning her husband's abuse of Terri. [/ QUOTE ] Is this the same nurse who claimed she gave Terry Schiavo pudding and other semi-solid food even though her condition makes it impossible to have anything put in the tube except liquid nourishment. If this nurse were legit and admitting to something like that she should be fired. Also, if they did see her husband abusing her, why didn't they call the police and have him arrested. These nurses statements are completely uncredible and unfounded. [ QUOTE ] -- There are conflicts of interests with the husband's lawyer and the judge because of direct as well as indirect ties to the Florida euthanasia lobbyists and hospices. [/ QUOTE ] Thats a new one. I find it interesting that all the facts you posted either came from the website terrisfight.org or something associated with the catholic church. How about something independent and unbiased. I firmly believe that the husband has the right to the decision making process, I do not agree with starving her to death, but I also firmly believe that after 15 years she has no chance of getting better. They need to find a more humane way of letting her go. Welcome to the forums. [/ QUOTE ] Like slug said welcome to the forums. from the video I've seen of terry.... well lets just say if it was me, hand me a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted March 26, 2005 Report Share Posted March 26, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert [ QUOTE ] Most people just don't have the facts when they say...reinsert the tube!! The photo's that you see on the news are from 4 years ago. She looks worse than that now folks. The family has a motive that is selfish including changing any current laws regarding the folks in vegetative states out there. Don't let your heart get involved. let the brain do it's job just as god had intended it to. In her case. It has done it's job. It has kept her alive but with what quality of life did it give her? Soon she will be to a point that even modern medicine can't help. God speed that day. [/ QUOTE ] Outstanding reply Adkhunter. That's what I been saying all along. Her parents are using her as a camera set and want the world to pitty THEM, not HER. They need to give up because obvisouly the courts are catching on too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 26, 2005 Report Share Posted March 26, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert I wasn't offended. A little respect is in order for a starving and dieing woman. No time for a distasteful attempt at a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 26, 2005 Report Share Posted March 26, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert [ QUOTE ] She has no clue she is starving. [/ QUOTE ] So says you and some others. There are also those who think otherwise, but that is not really important now, since she is dieing and will die evenually. All I am asking, from one human being to another, is that you show her some respect and can the fruit, vegetable references. I don't agree with some of you on this topic. I have been following it faithfully and am convinced she is not braindead like many of you think, so, whether she is, or whether she isn't, it is a sad day for humanity in my opinion and I am pretty tore up about he whole thing. With all due respect, When it comes to this thread and the topic at hand, I personally don't see room for any humor. This isn't about this forum, it isn't about me, it isn't about saying whatever the heck anyone wants, it's about a dieing woman who is being starved to death. I'm not asking you to respect my opinion. I'm not trying to change your mind or convince you of my feelings on the subject. All I am asking is that you Please show Terri the respect she deserves..that's all. Thanks for the birthday wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert Actually she is being starved (denied nutrition) and dehydrated (denied water). Both are necessary to sustain life. I may not be the brightest brick on the building, but I know there was more than just water going through that feeding tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Most people just don't have the facts when they say...reinsert the tube!! The photo's that you see on the news are from 4 years ago. She looks worse than that now folks. The family has a motive that is selfish including changing any current laws regarding the folks in vegetative states out there. Don't let your heart get involved. let the brain do it's job just as god had intended it to. In her case. It has done it's job. It has kept her alive but with what quality of life did it give her? Soon she will be to a point that even modern medicine can't help. God speed that day. [/ QUOTE ] Outstanding reply Adkhunter. That's what I been saying all along. Her parents are using her as a camera set and want the world to pitty THEM, not HER. They need to give up because obvisouly the courts are catching on too [/ QUOTE ] HEY, WHAT THE HECK DID I SAY DISRESPECTFUL??? You edited my post for what??? I simply said that Adkhunter had a good reply. Was it something in Adkhunters post that I quoted that got edited. I WANT ANSWERS AND I WANT THEM NOW I even forgot what all I wrote actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert [ QUOTE ] When does a parents "rights" to their child end and a spouses begins? Is that not why people get married, to have a family of their own???? [/ QUOTE ] well, since her (so-called) loving husband is now in another relationship, with children from another woman (lover) ..By law and by biblical standards, Terri has the right to divorce her husband for living in adultery with another woman, while still married to her. Who should speak for Terri regarding this ?...her husband?? ...I don' think so. I'm surprised this wasn't brought up in court, since all the decisions are leaning so heavily on the legalities of their marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig mack Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert I agree with Norm on this one. I would not want to live like that. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldksnarc Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert First, I have a living will to insure this doesn't happen to me. Second, another woman who'd been in a comatose state for 20+ years just came out of her coma. If it really was Terri's wish not to be kept alive it should have happened years ago when she first suffered her injuries. There's some question about the injuries and who inflicted them - the husband? Did he keep her alive long enough to get the malpractice money? Now he wants her disconnected. Besides, he has been living with another woman for several years and has two kids with her. This is recognized in all states as a common-law marraige. That would either make him a bigamist or common-law divorced from her. If divorced then he should have no say about what happens to her and the right to say should revert to the parents. It should have been removed in the beginning - now she is starving to death. She's still a human being regardless her level of cognitive or naiscient life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Re: T. Schiavo,should the feeding tube be reinsert Living wills do not hold up in court. I have one but if any of my family members decided to contest it I am aware that there is no guarantee of the outcome. That said, my answer is no. There has to be a time when life ends, for there is a beginning and an end to everything, life included. I see nothing to be gained by continuing to waste the resourses to keep her alive. May she rest in peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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