Tony Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 i guess i dont understand what the hype is about KE or momentum... i mean does it really make a diferance between 45 ft/lbs of KE or 75 ft/lbs on which will kill a deer any better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Re: Momentum, Kenetic Energy and Arrow Penetration [ QUOTE ] ...does it really make a diferance between 45 ft/lbs of KE or 75 ft/lbs on which will kill a deer any better... [/ QUOTE ] It depends on how big the bone is you are driving the arrow through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Re: Momentum, Kenetic Energy and Arrow Penetration Just for the record, I do not believe MO is "more important". just seems to be the bigger factor when going for penitration. KE and MO together makes the arrow drive hard and deep. JMO but I feel MO is under rated when one talks about penitration. Thank you Dave for your support on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Re: Momentum, Kenetic Energy and Arrow Penetration Its all pieces of the same Pie man..... I dont care what piece hits the deer and goes through it.... I just want my flat shooting Pie hitting the deer right where I aim the arrow to go I think I'll start shooting a new arrow...."Chocolate Moose" or just stick with my old stand by arrow "Pumpkin" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitrrophybowhunter Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Re: Momentum, Kenetic Energy and Arrow Penetration You are right 45 will kill just the same as 65. The difference is the distance! KE drops with yardage! Not greatly but if you have 45 at 20 you won't have it at 40 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
py_archer Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Re: Momentum, Kenetic Energy and Arrow Penetration [ QUOTE ] It depends on how big the bone is you are driving the arrow through [/ QUOTE ] Good answer. Deer have an amazing ability to take a hit and keep on running. A deer over 250lbs is tough! If you want to smash through both rib cages your going to need momentum. IMO Personally, I shoot a fairly heavy arrow (2413) out of a fairly fast bow (black max). Everyone is free to shoot what they want in their area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted March 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Re: Momentum, Kenetic Energy and Arrow Penetration i understand the KE concept and momentum.. i just feel that as archers we need to concentrate on more than just numbers.. they have killed deer and all forms of dangerous game with recurves for centuries.... i guess Fred Bear shouldnt have went Polar bear hunting with a recurve. i dont think anyone told him he didnt have enough KE to make a killing shot ? arrows kill by hemorage , not knock down power ..how much penetration do you really need on a thin skinned animal like deer... now if your hunting say wild boar or some of the big bears more could help but im willing to bet that an accurate shot is more important...... to many of us and im just as guilty , get wrapped up in numbers for bowhunting which doesnt really matter... we need to promote shooting perfect shooting form , perfect draw length and draw weight.. not try to make someone shoot 500 gr arrows at 75 lbs to make some huge amount of KE or momentum just to whack a deer that really can be killed with 35 lbs of KE... i wonder what the KE is on a recurve ? lets see if you shot fairly fast maybe 190 fps... and used a 450 grain arrow .. that would come out to 36.08 ft lbs of KE.. but yet tons of deer were shot with setups just like that and less... sure you wont be taking 40 yd shots , but im willing to bet that it was accuracy not less amounts of KE that stopped recurve shooters form taking those kind of shots... we can crunch numbers all we want but in the end its what your most accurate with... this post was not meant to be a dig at anyone .. im just pointing out that there are other things we need to worry about other than numbers on bows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
py_archer Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Re: Momentum, Kenetic Energy and Arrow Penetration [ QUOTE ] i guess Fred Bear shouldnt have went Polar bear hunting with a recurve. i dont think anyone told him he didnt have enough KE to make a killing shot ? [/ QUOTE ] Did'nt he use like a 90-100# Kodiak with an arrow to match on that hunt? [ QUOTE ] arrows kill by hemorage , not knock down power [/ QUOTE ] True, but it is still a factor. [ QUOTE ] we can crunch numbers all we want but in the end its what your most accurate with... [/ QUOTE ] Agreed, accuracy is the #1 factor. That being said a heavier arrow penetrates deeper. Those of you with your little skinny arrows and your little mechanical broadheads trying to get within a 1/16th of an inch from the bullseye are in for a rude awakening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThethirdI Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Momentum, Kenetic Energy and Arrow Penetration In a perfect world where you are shooting through a perfect shooting lane at a perfectly broadside deer then you can shoot your perfect accuracy. If there is a twig or a crosswind or any other innumerable factors involved then you are going to need a pile driver to make up for inaccuracy. I have a friend who made a shot on a 175lb. doe that was quartering to him. The arrow entered through the paddle bone and exited through the left rear hip bone. All the way through. He shoots 545 gr. arrow set-ups at 206 fps. That took the deer down in 35 yards. Sometimes the perfect shot isn't possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Momentum, Kenetic Energy and Arrow Penetration twig or crosswind ? i take it you dont shoot much in crosswinds do you,.. because a heavy arrow will not buck wind. its bigger surface area will act as a wind plane and drift off course further than a skinny arrow with small fletchings.. this is fact because other wise the shooters in the Olympics who shoot at distances of over 100 yards would be shooting aluminums and they dont .. they shoot Easton ACEs or Accs or X10s..small skinny carbons with very small fletchings... and as for twigs why are you shooting at game animals that are covered up with twigs that might deflect your arrow into a gut shot ? if the perfect shot isnt there i dont take it . broadside or quartering away are the only shots in my book.. but im picky what can i say.. plus i have been shooting carbon arrows and small fixed blade broadheads for over 10 years.. never have they ever suffered from lack of penetration at anything i have shot.. i have blown through a wild boar twice , blown through so many deer its not funny . some at ranges up to 40 yds... i shot 1 tough bear that had so much penetration that when i made a slightly high shot the broadhead not only penetrated the spine but blew through his off shoulder bone ... we found him the next day... i shot a doe in 2003 that was quartering away that went from the right hip and came out the front left arm pit .. at 38 yds... all with a 375 grain arrow at 295 fps... maybe im wrong here but why should i change if my setup and arrow combination are doing more than enough job on the animals i want.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThethirdI Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Re: Momentum, Kenetic Energy and Arrow Penetration Did I say that they were covered with twigs? I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I was just trying to make a for instance. The point that I was trying to make is that things go wrong even if you don't see them coming. For instance I know of a guy that shot at a deer this past season who swears the pin was right on the kill zone but he only managed to kill a three inch diameter tree. Sometimes things go wrong in the field. That was the point that I was trying to make. I agree with the crosswind comment about thinner arrow shafts, but once again was only trying to make the point that conditions aren't always perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Re: Momentum, Kenetic Energy and Arrow Penetration i understand that some of you like the extra penetration that a heavy arrow gives you so that if a shot goes slightly off and hits unwanted bone that you will still be able to make a recovery.. its just that this momentum thing has been going crazy on this site and a few others and its like some of you want us that shoot faster arrows and slightly lighter to give them up for the heavy arrow option.. i just feel that its better for you to use what has always done well for you.. accuracy is the number one thing on all of our minds here .. now if you can shoot a heavy arrow and it performs well for you then fine .. but some of the guys that try to explain this momentum stuff are making it sound like im wrong or even unethical for shooting light fast arrows for bowhunting.. im sure thats not what they mean but still it makes it sound like they are right and we are wrong... and as we know there are tons of opinions on here and everyone has one... its just best to understand where the other side is coming from and what they are trying to get across... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThethirdI Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Re: Momentum, Kenetic Energy and Arrow Penetration I wasn't saying anyone is wrong. I believe that you should use what works for you. I have used carbons and aluminum shafts. I have to say that I like the flight of the carbons much more than the heavier shafts. The shafts are just like picking a bow however and they tend to pick their owner not the other way around. Go with what works fellas. I shoot 3-D with carbons but choose aluminum in the field. Go figure?? I guess I'm scared of the one time I might need the aluminum it won't be what I'm slinging. Who knows it could be the other way around. Like I said... It's the unexpected that we have to look out for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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