Guest andymansavage Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Has this been discussed on here before? Basically, a group of volunteers is going to camp and patroll the AZ-MEX border for the entire month of April. They are going to watch for illegals and report all sighting to INS. Hopefull open up some eyes to what is happening. Some will be armed. I think it is very grass-roots American and is a good thing. www.minutemanproject.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Re: Minuteman project Sounds pretty interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Re: Minuteman project Awsome...any web sites or such i wouldnt mind taking in something like that. I feel the border is one of our biggest problems today......JMO though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Re: Minuteman project Hope it doesn't turn into a blood bath. I've gotten several security alerts indicating that a Mexican gang called M-13 is planning to target as many of them as possible for assasination. The gang has been very active in the US for the last 10 years or so. They engage in all types of criminal activity, but one of the main things they do is drug and illegal alien smuggling along a 200 mile stretch of the Arizona border that includes the area where the "Minutemen" will be patroling. This is probably exacerbated by the fact that it has been widely publicized that the Minutemen have been instructed NOT to carry rifles. They can carry a handgun IF they have a concealed weapons permit that is recognized by the state of Arizona. Sounds like a good way to get someone killed if the gang follows through on it's threat. Link to information about M13 (MS13) Gang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Re: Minuteman project arm them with M-16's to combat the M-13's Look at it this way - the only people the Mexican's have to worry about is the citizens - the government isn't going to do anything. If they can scare us then they've got a wide-open door to the US - thus, arm yourself and shoot all you can. Call it "preventative-maintance" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Re: Minuteman project I understand their intentions, but it really isn't their place to do this. It is the job of the federal government to patrol our borders, whether they are doing so or not does not give an untrained civilian the right to tote a gun and patrol the border. I bet someone gets shot the first night out there, an unarmed, female, mexican looking for a better life in the USA, and then all **** will break loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Re: Minuteman project [ QUOTE ] I understand their intentions, but it really isn't their place to do this. It is the job of the federal government to patrol our borders, whether they are doing so or not does not give an untrained civilian the right to tote a gun and patrol the border. I bet someone gets shot the first night out there, an unarmed, female, mexican looking for a better life in the USA, and then all **** will break loose. [/ QUOTE ] Well at least SOMEONE is doing something to keep illegals out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andymansavage Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Re: Minuteman project La Mara Salvatrucha Trece ( ms-13) is actually from Honduras. I lived there for several years and delt with them on a daily basis. Their weapon of preferance is the machete, and I saw them use it on people several times. We have to patroll the border for that exact reason, to keep people like them out. Somone has to step up if our own gov. is afraid to. I hope there is no violence, but it has to be done somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Re: Minuteman project [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I understand their intentions, but it really isn't their place to do this. It is the job of the federal government to patrol our borders, whether they are doing so or not does not give an untrained civilian the right to tote a gun and patrol the border. I bet someone gets shot the first night out there, an unarmed, female, mexican looking for a better life in the USA, and then all **** will break loose. [/ QUOTE ] Well at least SOMEONE is doing something to keep illegals out. [/ QUOTE ] Yup like Gator said, If the goverment isnt going to do it someone needs to. That said I cant believe they arnt all going to carry firearms. I'd have no problem giving some time to the border issue with a weapon at my side. But Im also not going to take a pitch fork to a gun fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Re: Minuteman project [ QUOTE ] I understand their intentions, but it really isn't their place to do this. It is the job of the federal government to patrol our borders, whether they are doing so or not does not give an untrained civilian the right to tote a gun and patrol the border. I bet someone gets shot the first night out there, an unarmed, female, mexican looking for a better life in the USA, and then all **** will break loose. [/ QUOTE ] Do you own a gun for personal protection Sluggo? Isn't it the responsibility for the police to protect you, your family and your home? That's what some on government will lead you to believe - and before you say "it's not the same thing" is **** sure is the same **** thing - this is OUR home, everything within it's borders is our home and it's not only our right to protect it, it's our **** duty to protect it from envasion of outside sources. If Japan had thought for a minute that they would encounter the same attitude that you're express here then they would made Pearl Harbor a stop over point on their way to California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Re: Minuteman project [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I understand their intentions, but it really isn't their place to do this. It is the job of the federal government to patrol our borders, whether they are doing so or not does not give an untrained civilian the right to tote a gun and patrol the border. I bet someone gets shot the first night out there, an unarmed, female, mexican looking for a better life in the USA, and then all **** will break loose. [/ QUOTE ] Do you own a gun for personal protection Sluggo? Isn't it the responsibility for the police to protect you, your family and your home? That's what some on government will lead you to believe - and before you say "it's not the same thing" is **** sure is the same **** thing - this is OUR home, everything within it's borders is our home and it's not only our right to protect it, it's our **** duty to protect it from envasion of outside sources. If Japan had thought for a minute that they would encounter the same attitude that you're express here then they would made Pearl Harbor a stop over point on their way to California. [/ QUOTE ] Could not have said it any better than that. Think at some point recognizing volunteers to do such and allowing them to legally stop illegals would only be a good thing whther the government is involved or not. The police analogy is great PH. Hit the nail right on the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Re: Minuteman project [ QUOTE ] Isn't it the responsibility for the police to protect you, your family and your home? [/ QUOTE ] How can they use that defence when its been determined in court that police are not there to protect, just enforce laws (clean-up)? You can not go after the cops if they fail to protect you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Re: Minuteman project Not sure about anybody else but the nearenst Police station to here is 15 miles away.I have to engage criminals in polite conversation for 15 minutes before they can get a car over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Re: Minuteman project [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Isn't it the responsibility for the police to protect you, your family and your home? [/ QUOTE ] How can they use that defence when its been determined in court that police are not there to protect, just enforce laws (clean-up)? You can not go after the cops if they fail to protect you. [/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry, all this time I thought the police officers motto was "To Protect and Serve". How stupid of me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldksnarc Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Re: Minuteman project We "Protect" the best we can - we can't be everywhere at once. It's up to you to provide primary protection until we can intervene. Same with the Minutemen. They're providing primary protection, i.e. interdicting, catching and holding illegal immigrants until the government can get their enforcers there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Re: Minuteman project Guy - you're not seeing the irony in all this - I'm being synical ok of what someone said. Read the entire post and you'll see that. We have a member saying it's up to the government to protect us and not the citizens of this country. Are we not in agreement that it's up to the citizens to protect the country? Trust me - I don't rely on the police to do anything to protect my family or myself - they'll show up and take the report while the medical examiner is hauling off the slug that tried to break into my home - that's about all I'm counting on. And I'm not counting on the government to protect our borders and I think IT'S GREAT that citizens are finally taking things into their own hands and in fact would support putting AR-15's into those hands for some more added security and would support any action that they deem appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Re: Minuteman project [ QUOTE ] Guy - you're not seeing the irony in all this - I'm being synical ok of what someone said. Read the entire post and you'll see that. We have a member saying it's up to the government to protect us and not the citizens of this country. Are we not in agreement that it's up to the citizens to protect the country? Trust me - I don't rely on the police to do anything to protect my family or myself - they'll show up and take the report while the medical examiner is hauling off the slug that tried to break into my home - that's about all I'm counting on. And I'm not counting on the government to protect our borders and I think IT'S GREAT that citizens are finally taking things into their own hands and in fact would support putting AR-15's into those hands for some more added security and would support any action that they deem appropriate. [/ QUOTE ] uhhh-agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Re: Minuteman project I stand by my opinion, and the first time an unarmed mexican is shot in an unprovoked incident. I'll say I told you so. This isn't the wild wild west where you can shoot someone because he looked at you wrong. The government has the National Guard troops to spare to walk back and forth along the George Washington Bridge in NYC as well as other bridges I am sure, so they can install some on the border. I understand the whole protecting your country argument, heck, if you remember previous posts on this subject I have been one of the biggest critics on our open borders, and from what I remember you guys were all in support of Bush not keeping our borders secure, because noone could smuggle something across the border big enough to cause any damage. Some very people that support this minuteman thing have said that very thing. If you guys support this then move to South Texas or Southern Arizona and join them if you believe in it so much. I just don't want to hear any complaints when you're in jail for shooting an unarmed mexican civilian cause you didn't want him in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Re: Minuteman project [ QUOTE ] I stand by my opinion, and the first time an unarmed mexican is shot in an unprovoked incident. I'll say I told you so. This isn't the wild wild west where you can shoot someone because he looked at you wrong. The government has the National Guard troops to spare to walk back and forth along the George Washington Bridge in NYC as well as other bridges I am sure, so they can install some on the border. I understand the whole protecting your country argument, heck, if you remember previous posts on this subject I have been one of the biggest critics on our open borders, and from what I remember you guys were all in support of Bush not keeping our borders secure, because noone could smuggle something across the border big enough to cause any damage. Some very people that support this minuteman thing have said that very thing. If you guys support this then move to South Texas or Southern Arizona and join them if you believe in it so much. I just don't want to hear any complaints when you're in jail for shooting an unarmed mexican civilian cause you didn't want him in the country. [/ QUOTE ] Theres a big difference between having the troops to patrol a couple hundred feet of bridge and having the troops to patrol a couple hundred miles of dessert.Were kinda in a war right now, the troops are busy elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Re: Minuteman project A civilian shooting an illegal crossing the border or a soldier shooting an illegal crossing the border, really what difference does it make? Honestly think they should deputize those volunteers who are willing to serve as a volunteer border patrol and make it legit. Onthe "protect and serve" deal, I think cruisers still have that motto painted on the doors. Out here if I relied on and expected to wait for law enforcement officials to protect me I would be in trouble in the event I really needed them to get here quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Re: Minuteman project [ QUOTE ] I stand by my opinion, and the first time an unarmed mexican is shot in an unprovoked incident. I'll say I told you so. [/ QUOTE ] And I’ll say – Job well done – time to reload. You simply can’t rely sollely on your government (local, state or federal) to protect you completely, there has to be some responsibility taken by the citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popgun Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Re: Minuteman project Sometimes good men with good intentions can get themselves into situations that they would not, under normal circumstances, be involved in. I have a feelings about this Minuteman Project that would prohibit me from participating even if some of my closest friends were going to go. I am simply not one of the "follow the crowd" guys. I would not want to be associated with some of the leadership and participants. I think everyone needs to realize that sometimes a good leader may be leading his followers in the wrong direction. According to the Arizona Daily Star, Chris Simcox, a leader of the Minuteman Project, was convicted on federal weapons charges for practices similar to those that the Minutemen will engage in this month. Another key figure among the Minutemen, is Roger Barnett, who in March 2004 kicked a woman and shouted obscenities at her while holding her at gunpoint in a remote location along the Arizona-Mexico border. In October 2004, Barnett was arrested for pointing an AR-15 at a group of two men and three children, all U.S. citizens, because apparently Barnett confused the group with "illegal aliens." But the grass-roots characters of the Minuteman Project does not end there. A who's who among the extremist groups of the United States is also planning to join the Minutemen in Arizona this month, including the Aryan Nation, which has called the Minutemen Project "a white pride event," and the swastika-waving National Alliance. I don't have the answers to the illegal alien problem here in the U.S., but I think the best way to combat this problem would be to take away the benefits of being illegal. If we could make the trip "not worth the effort" for the illegals, they simply would stop coming over the border. I still think we need to lean on our own Congress and Senate, before civilians patrol a border line that stretches from Texas to California. There is a 2000 mile border line, and the Minutemen plan to patrol 18 to 23 miles of it. What good will it do to leave 1980 miles un-patrolled? I do not know any more than anyone else how this month will turn out, but I really don't see any good coming from this project. I sure hope my gut feelings are wrong, because my gut feelings are telling me something horrible is going to go down along the border this month. I hope this not going to be a historical event, that we later wish. had never happened. .....popgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Re: Minuteman project Good post popgun, couldn't agree more and thats what I have been trying to say the whole time. It seems though that certain individuals on here seem to think that if I don't agree with this potential bloodbath that I am a bad American. The only thing that can come from this is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popgun Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Re: Minuteman project Just because someone has a different opinion about a problem, or a different idea of a solution to a problem, does not make that person a bad American. Just as following the crowd to an activity, rally, demonstration, or border war, does not make someone a good American. Having strong feelings about a problem in our Government, but keeping your solutions or concerns to yourself, in my opinion, is being a bad American. .....popgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Minuteman project since our esteemed government will and has done nothing, i'm glad the militia is there. and, while i hope all is peaceful, if anyone does get shot i hope it's an illegal, that ILLEGAL alien who is not welcome in this country, and not an american Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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