The Pope?

[johnf]

It was asked that the other post not be a politacal or religious discussion. I can respect that, but I have some observations and questions.

1. If the Pope is the leader of the Catholic Church, then Catolics must not doubt his salvation. Why would they hold a vigal that would prolong his life and suffering. After all if he is saved (I believe that salvations is between the individual and God and no one knows another mans heart except God. That is in no way in disrespect of the Pope) then as soon as he dies he will be with our creator and that is a much better place than what he is currently experiencing.

2. Do Catholics believe that the Pope is in any way above other humans? I don't know the answer, that's why I'm asking. If so, why do they believe that?

3. When the pope dies don't you get another pope in 12 days? It's not like the catholic church is going to fall apart in 12 days, why not just let him go in peace?

No disrespect intended on any of these. I was just wandering.

[Steven]

Re: The Pope?

How is holding a vigal prolonging his life and suffering? That would mean if they all went home, he would pass sooner?

[RangerClay]

Re: The Pope?

Without quoting scripture (especially Q#1) I will try to answer each of your question to the best of my ability.

Q#1: No one is questioning his salvation. I see from your picture that you have a child. If your child was dying would you stay by their bedside till the end. That is what the people in the square are doing. They are as close as they can get. Saying prayers and singing psalms for the Pope till the end. If I could be there I would.

Q#2: The Pope is our church and spiritual leader. He is our closest connection to God himself.

Q#3: 12 days? Not likely. They figure it will take approximately 12-13 days just to assemble all of the Cardinals from all over the world. Then they will "elect" a new Pope. That may take several days. There is no great concern for the welfare of the church till then. There is an Archbishop who will see to the church till we have a new Pope.

Hope this helps. Anymore questions please drop me a PM.

Ranger

[markyj987]

Re: The Pope?

johnf, I can basically answer two of your questions and touch on what Adk and Racksie said...

1. Though of course we cannot know what others pray, the media reports are that most of those in St. Peter's Sqare particularly are saying they accept the fact that Pope John Paul II is on the brink of death--and that they are praying that he is comfortable as possible and does not suffer. Though some are probably praying for a miraculous recovery (nothing wrong with that in my opinion), most are not. As a non-Catholic, I'm probably in the majority of those who pray for him--that pray he does not suffer.

2. I have no idea.

3. I'm not sure what the actual time frame is. I know that those eligible to vote for a new pope are summoned to the Vatican and are given 9 days to arrive. Then they meet until 2/3 of them agree on who will be the successor. The Catholic Church will certainly NOT fall apart in that amount of time, but I'm certain that many view that John Paul II will have left some huge shoes to fill because of his accomplishments during his papacy.

Adk, politics within in the Catholic church go back to its inception. However, virtually all Christian denominations have some type of voting body that makes decisions. As a matter of fact, representative democracy, even within a church, are based on Biblical principles.

Racksie, you may trying to overanalyze this. They are holding vigil and praying for him out of their love and respect for him. Most Christians recognize that there usually isn't a direct cause-effect relationship between their prayers and actions and what will happen because of them. Certainly most of us recognize that God's will, including when the pope will pass, will be done.

[johnf]

Re: The Pope?

Thanks RangerClay. you have a good way of making sence of something without over explaining. I am sorry for your loss (I'm assuming your catholic)

As said earlier in this post by another baptist, we believe that our closest link to God is our own prayer. While this is just one of our theological differences, I don't think this is the time to discuss or argue any points of religion, but one to greave the loss of a man who did great things for the least of the world.

Anyone Cathlic or not must acknowledge the good that he has done in his life.

[wtnhunt]

Re: The Pope?

In my opinion he was a great spiritual leader for Christians, not just catholics.

Pretty safe to assume he is right with God. Dont think anyone was praying for his salvation either, but instead most were likely praying for him to not be suffering like Mark pointed out.

I am not catholic, and am not sure how catholics view the man they call the "holy father". As to his place in where he sits with God, I dont think God picks any favorites. In other words, in my opinion he is not above the child who dies who never had an opportunity to know God. I am kind of curious though how catholics do view the pope though and sure look forward to seeing someone answer this.

[slugshooter]

Re: The Pope?

From what I have gathered on my religious journey through life thus far, as far as I know, Catholics view the Pope as Christ's emissary to earth, I guess the best way I can understand it is since Christ died and was ressurected then since he isn't here then the Pope is a sort of spiritual figure, I guess Christ's right hand man until he returns. Thats how I interpreted it.