johnf Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 I was at a honor band clinc for small bands yeasterday and was talking with some young and rather liberal directors. One made the comment that all organized churches are "cults" and a waste of time. I asked him if he was going to "ABA" later this year. ABA is our state band directors conventions. He said that of course he was going, so I asked him why. His first responce was that he was going to see his friends that he normally didn't get to see durning the year. I asked him if he was going to any of the clinics, he said that he wanted to go to some clinics on some music writing and marching drill writing software, some beginning band workshops and a workshop on marching band. I asked him if he didn't think that was a waste of his time and he looked at me like I was crazy. I told him that most of the people just cheat on the forms and say that they went to clinics. That they were just going there to see thier freinds, gloat about how good they did the previous years and to talk bad about the band directors who didn't do well this year. Then I told him that if they were like that then going to the convention was stupid because no one really ever learned anything there anyways and if they did, they never used it. This time unstead of looking at me like I was crazy he began to gripe about people like me that just didn't get it and should be teaching in the first place. Then I told him that any convention or workshop is just like church. We go there to fellowship with each other, and to learn about our craft. Older, more experienced, or more educated people in our field are there to teach us to help us to be better at what we do and show us how to teach others. There are people there that are just there for show or are just there to show how good they are and how bad everyone else is. There are people that don't even go through the motions except for showing up and collecting the admit slip, hoping that will please the boss. In any thing you do there will be people who go through the motions fro the wrong resons. That's not a reason not to go. Just make sure that your not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Re: Why go to church? I go to church for several reasons. Here are a few: 1) To strengthen my resolve to be a good Christian. I think we all need to go at least every other week to help keep us on the right track. I often desire that extra "boost" my church gives me when I go to worship service. 2) I like to be around others who share my faith in Christ. 3) I like to hear teachings from the Bible from someone who has devoted their life to spreading the word of God and has gone to great length to learn and teach the word. 4) It is always good to go and hear how others are being helped and who needs help tyhemselves. You hear how the church is doing and how the tithes are being spent for outreach. Our church is an outreach and missionary church. Our motto is to help the hurting, the hungry and the hopeless. We send and spend a lot of money all around the world for missions and outreach programs. 5) I feel it is just the best thing to do. I feel God wants us to go to church. 6) It is my DUTY as a father and a Christian to teach my children by example. If I set the example of my walk in faith with Christ and take my children on that walk with me, then I feel I am sowing seeds by leading by example for my children and possibly others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Re: Why go to church? Good post Johnf and Norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Why go to church? i agree with all but adk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Why go to church? I can only imagine that it is because of one or more of the following: 1. A social gathering 2. They are wanting to increase their knowledge of their chosen cult. Why they can't get it from reading the Bible, is beyond me, but they need to hear it from someone else. 3. They are insecure in their belief and need reasurrance that what they are doing is correct. 4. Feel it will make up for being a bad person the other 6 days a week. 5. Give them a false sence of security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Why go to church? Have not gone to a church building in a couple years. Hate to say it, but there is too much hipocrasy in my opinion in the churches around here. God knows where our minds and hearts are without having to go and sit in a building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronS Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Why go to church? Good posts Johnf and Norm. Not all churches are full of hypocrytes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Why go to church? I believe in God, not religion! Religion is so corrupted by man to fit their own needs that it has lost it meaning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLH Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Why go to church? I agree whole-heartledly with Norm. Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KSNimrod Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Why go to church? Well said johnf!! People give me all kinds of excuses for not going to church. You've heard them all before so no need to list them here. I just wonder if they offer those same excuses to God since He is the one who said it was a good idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Why go to church? KS, please feel free to show me where God said it was a good idea??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andymansavage Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Why go to church? [ QUOTE ] KS, please feel free to show me where God said it was a good idea??? [/ QUOTE ] The books of the new testament (with the exception of the gospels), are letters and instruction to different bodies of saints that were organized by the apostles under the direction and post-ressurection revelation of Jesus. If you can say that we were not meant to gather as a group of worshippers, then why did the apostles spent the remainder of their lives trying to build up these "churches"? And yes, the word religion is used in the bible by the apostles at least once- look it up. Also, how can you base all of your belief only in the bible? God didn't write it. It was written by men and translated and changed by more men. It is not perfect. For example, how did Judas the traitor die??? Well, it depends on witch gospel you read, one says he hung himself, the other says he fell headlong in the field and his guts spilled out. So don't claim that the bible is all you need................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyj987 Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Why go to church? I'm surprised by the great deal of cynicism about attending church. There ARE good churches out there and congregations full of wonderful people---and pastors who love their congregations and have dedicated their lives to preaching the gospel and educating parishoners. As human institutions, NO church is perfect--but the gospel they preach is. Yes, I can read my Bible anytime I want, but really enjoy being with other Christians...and I actually enjoy hearing a sermon. For those of you who are like I was--thinking that churches are nothing but buildings full of hypocrites, I want to throw this out there: Perhaps as Christians who are strong in your faith, you could apply that strength to help others in the congregation. Despite your thoughts on hypocrites, are we all not sinners? It's just a point to ponder--I'm not bashing you for your ill-feelings toward attending church--because I was there until not too long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanH Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Re: Why go to church? I anit gotta make a big ole long Post! GOD IS AWESOME! He is my power, strength, and provider! I know that he is behind me at all time and trust him with all my heart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Re: Why go to church? What better way than in Church? Matthew 18:20 New International Version (NIV) For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Re: Why go to church? [ QUOTE ] Perhaps as Christians who are strong in your faith, you could apply that strength to help others in the congregation. Despite your thoughts on hypocrites, are we all not sinners? It's just a point to ponder--I'm not bashing you for your ill-feelings toward attending church--because I was there until not too long ago. [/ QUOTE ] Dont have any ill wills towards churches or its members, however I do not think you have to go to church, a building with many or few people, to be strong in your faith. If you need to sit in a church that is your right, it is good for some people, but not neccesarily for everyone. Sure we are all sinners, but we are all different in many ways. Call it cynical or whatever you want, I think there is a lot of corruption in churches all over the world. Just my honest opinion I have formed over the years of my experience. From the churches that are all about making a profit, to the ones where you see a high degree of hipocrasy. My eyes were opened after our preacher continuously complained about money problems coming right out and asking us to give more and then during a revival we had a guest preacher who told us to raise up our wallets. That was it with that church for me. We visited around after that and found high up clergy in some of the other churches we visited to be doctors who screwed around on their wives and some others who could pay there way into a status symbol with the church and the community. That left a bad taste in our mouths with the local churches we went to. Some of the sorriest people I have ever met are in the building every time the doors are opened, does that make them closer to God than the man who reads from the bible to his children and expounds on his thoughts and listens to their views? The bible is a work by many men inspired by God and has been translated many times and written and changed to fit mans needs. I may not agree with everything a preacher has to say and can form my own beliefs and opinions from my reading without that his/her interpretations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KSNimrod Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Re: Why go to church? [ QUOTE ] The bible is a work by many men inspired by God and has been translated many times and written and changed to fit mans needs. I may not agree with everything a preacher has to say and can form my own beliefs and opinions from my reading without that his/her interpretations. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with you that you don't have to side with everything a preacher says. But I'm curious, if you believe that the Bible's message has been changed over time by men, then what do you rely on for your opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrea Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Re: Why go to church? Yes, the Bible has been interpreted many many times and no, you can't be sure of anything. What you CAN do is have faith. Faith that what you are reading is what God intended you to learn. I really don't think He would allow us all to be duped for 2000 plus years by some misguided writers and publishers. I may not understand all of the King James version, but I think it's as close to the real thing as you can get. If you really want to read the real thing, you better learn Hebrew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7th Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Re: Why go to church? I may not have power to make my brother any better but I do have the power to help my brother when needed. Most of my Church life has been spent in small churchs (less then 30 on any Sunday) and we ware there for each other all week long. I don't get to church now as much as I feel I should but the time that I do spend there makes me feel better for myself and that is what I am there for, to do what I feel is right by God and myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Re: Why go to church? [quote For example, how did Judas the traitor die??? Well, it depends on witch gospel you read, one says he hung himself, the other says he fell headlong in the field and his guts spilled out. So don't claim that the bible is all you need................. [/ QUOTE ] Here is a great example of knowing the time and traditions of a region. One of my pasters gave this explination which may not have biblical basis, but does go along with jewish law. If Judas hung himself then under Jewish law no Jew could touch him because he defiled his body by commiting suicide. We know that it was sometime around the passover which is in mid-spring. In mid-spring in the mediteranian it is hot and humid. As no one would touch him, in this hot humid climate he would decompose very quickly. In just a couple of days his flesh would be rotted enough that the weight of his body would sever his neck, he would then fall and his body cavity would break open. This is pretty gruesom, but it would explain the differences and is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Re: Why go to church? I have a fairly unique perspective on the bible and religion. I grew up in a real live gun toatin, compound havin' live dude worship' cult. One of the main points of this cult was that an "angel of light" came to the founders wife and told her what parts of the bible were true and which were not. When I was in college, I had a realization about the bible. If you beilieve in God and creations and in Christ, then you must believe that the bible is the real unfalible word of God. After all, if God created the world, universe, stars, trees, and every living thing in just 7 days, don't you think it would be rather simple to guide a hand, move a type or influence the mind of a creature that he made. If you've ever moved your finger accross a row of ants you know how easily they are influence by us. Don't you think God can influece us just as easily? So with this realization, I decided that either the bible was the 100% word of God whose every verse I could depend on as His. Or that I could not believe any of it, and there was no God. I don't have enough faith to be an athiest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Re: Why go to church? [ QUOTE ] But I'm curious, if you believe that the Bible's message has been changed over time by men, then what do you rely on for your opinions? [/ QUOTE ] My own interpretations and faith and trust in God that he is leading me in the right direction. I pray for his guidance, not the guidance of man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Re: Why go to church? You should be baptized in obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ as a public testimony of your salvation, and then unite with a Bible-believing church without delay. “Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord . . . .” (2 Timothy 1:8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KSNimrod Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Re: Why go to church? [ QUOTE ] My own interpretations and faith and trust in God that he is leading me in the right direction. I pray for his guidance, not the guidance of man. [/ QUOTE ] So if I follow you then your problem is more with other's interpretations of scripture rather than the scripture itself right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 Re: Why go to church? Why go to church? To be socially accepted. As for heaven. We are already here. People can't see the forest for the trees. Humans are not the one special species in the universe that live on forever and go to heaven just because they believe in Christ. We are born and we die, just like any other animal. It's wishful thinking that we continue when the heart stops beating. Live now and be thankful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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