Religous question

[buckee]

Re: Religous question

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I said SOME, not ALL !!!

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OK

[buckee]

Re: Religous question

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Buckee, I hope youre joking about that.

I voted for GW in a large part because of his christianity.

And how dare anyone say that members of the church of JESUS CHRIST of latter day saints (mormons) aren't christian. We don't follow the nicean creed of the catholics as do 99% of religions, but we follow christ and believe him to be the only way to salvation.

This is my last post on the thread. I can see that this is not the place for open religous discussion.............

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I'm kind of surprised that you would vote for GW based on his belief, unless it was just a matter of voting for the lesser of two evils, between Bush and Kerry. I think if you were honest and Kerry had of been a Morman, your vote would have swung the other way.

I have to be honest here. I wouldn't vote for anyone, that I believe belongs to a cult either, and I believe anyone who follows Joseph Smith's and Brigham Young's teachings are indeed involved in following another Gospel. Jesus warned us about such teachings.

Just wondering..are you wearing your secret underwear ?? I'm not saying this to be funny.

To some that aren't aware of what the heck I'm taking about, a Morman, that is higher up in the church would know.

[carbonhunter]

Re: Religous question

I have to be honest here. I wouldn't vote for anyone, that I believe belongs to a cult either, and I believe anyone who follows Joseph Smith's and Brigham Young's teachings are indeed involved in following another Gospel. Jesus warned us about such teachings.

Just wondering..are you wearing your secret underwear ?? I'm not saying this to be funny.

To some that aren't aware of what the heck I'm taking about, a Morman, that is higher up in the church would know.

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A cult...there it is again...........................first you blast his religion then insert your foot in your mouth when he says he voted for Bush....now your telling him he is a member of a cult again.

And you asked Why Im mad well I'll tell you

This is the U.S. your free to practice any religion you want, I've always liked these discussions, I learn about things that in the past I had no real knowledge of. This is no discussion and is as good as the BRAND BASHING that is banned from other parts of this forum, I cant believe some of the stuff that you have put in here as of late Buckee.

really makes me sick.

This is what drives me CRAZY about the Super Christians he have around today, there no better that the Nazies of the 30's and 40's

We are better than anyone else, lets label them and then try and save them.....even though the upper members of there religion are some of the biggest Hypocritical Liers the world has seen

I'd venture to guess that he voted for bush because he thought about the betterment of his country and not for some selfish reasons that some christians are throwing around in here.

[buckee]

Re: Religous question

Carbonhunter ...You can call it brand-bashing, super-Christian, whatever you want. The fact is there is nothing super about me. I'm saved by the grace of God. My belief in Jesus and what he has done "IS" my faith.

It just so happens that my faith teaches me also to be on-gaurd for lying spirits in the world. So when I express what I believe to be the truth, about another religion or faith, that is what I believe.

You said we have the freedom to practice any religion we want, well, I'm practicing what I believe...so what's your problem.

I didn't say I hated anyone for what Faith they practice, I just stated what I believe that faith to be, according to my faith.

Who voted you the intercessor between faiths ?..or is your faith, that all faiths are good and true and God (big "G") inspired.

You believe in the constitution, that is your faith eh ...that's fine with me, but I believe in God (big "G") and the Truth contained in the pages of the Bible. If the Constitution, any constitution lines up with that then fine.

You can rant all you want CH, it won't change what I believe, and no-one in here really even knows what you believe... What holds you up in the morning, what are you building your house on, what sustains you day by day, what do you consider truth and what do you consider to be a lie ??

Be careful now. If you answer that last question, you may be guilty of brand-bashing too ...LOL

Actually, you have been bashng Christianity (or should I say Christians), since I've know you in here.

[carbonhunter]

Re: Religous question

No i dont bash chrisitans I bash online, and on street preachers. There are Plenty of good chrisitians out there who go about there faith and life in a quit manner, I respect those people. I dont care what you believe, its your right, but you have no right to labels someone elses religion as wrong, or as a cult.........I have my faith in a higher power, and a protector.......does that mean i think you are in a cult...no, but it means you think Im in one because I dont believe the same as you.

Im not ranting im bashing heads with a bunch of thick headed.........

There is a huge differance between practicing, and preaching and judgeing,,,no matter what you say that it was you are doing.

As a person who has no dog in this fight I can see clearly what is going on here......................and what is going on is everyone ignoring his question and labeling, bashing, and denouncing his religion.

Call it practiceing all you want its clear what the reality of it is.

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what do you consider truth and what do you consider to be a lie ??

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Truth is something that can be proved without a shadow of doubt, Not something you read in a book and declair to the world.

you say you dont Hate anyone for there religion......lol lets sugar coat it a bit more shall we.....

[buckee]

Re: Religous question

The Nicean creed - I looked it up, and yes I do believe that God has revealed himself to man in three persons. I'm not a catholic though and there are a whole lot of things in the Catholic church that are not right, as far as biblical teaching goes.

Jesus was not created by God, he was, his only begotten son. He was beget, in other words of God himself. Now God didn't come down and have sex with Mary, The Holy Spirit of God,(God) impregnated her. There was no need for sex and Gods spirit was in that Child from conception.

Here's where the tricky part comes in. Jesus was God and man, all at the same time. Which made him a perfect man, spotless, sinless and ready in due time to be the spotless sacrificial lamb of all man-kind. Just like you are born with a spirit in you, which gives you life, Jesus also was born with the Spirit of man and the Spirit of God in him., Which made him God, in the flesh, or God, in the form of a man. All man, all God.

It's hard to grasp even for me sometimes, because we as men, see things in human terms and know little of the supernatural.

Jesus did all things through the Spirit of God in him as he lived in the flesh on earth. When he talked, he did not speak of himself, but spoke of God in him (the Father) He did nothing of himself (like us men would do, because he was born of God and had God in him, which made him God in the flesh. (That is how I see it)

Now we know that God the Father will not look upon sin,he turns his back on it, therefore I believe, that when the sins of the whole world, came down upon Jesus "the man" (who was both God in a man, and God the man) that the Spirit of God (the Father) left him, between the time of the sins of the world coming upon him, and the time he was put to death. That is why he cried out in the 3rd hour on the cross "Lord, Lord, Why have you forsaken me" in other words, "why have you left me all alone" At that moment, he was just a man, but a perfect man, a spotless lamb, that was being lead to the slaughter, by his own choice, to die, for the sins of mankind. Jesus knew who he was, even on the cross, He knew what was coming, he told the deparate man beside him, "today, you will be with me in paradise"

John 16:

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me (Jesus): for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.(through the Holy Spirit, the Comforter)

And I believe as you do, that when Jesus was resurrected he was his physical body, ascended to heaven and given a glorified body and will return, in that body someday soon.

That is what I believe, as hard as it is to convey in human terms. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit ...they are one . One in Might and power, in agreement with each other, but not separate deities. There is only one God. His name in the old testament was Jehovah God. He has so many names in the bible: counsellor, Prince of peace, Elohim (God the Creator), Abba (Father), Jehovah Raah (The Lord is my Shepherd), Elohim Yakol (The God who is Able), Elohim-Kedoshim (Holy God), Cether (My Hiding Place), El-Nasa'(A Forgiving God), El ShaddaiThe (Almighty), Maowz-Dal (A Defense for the Helpless), Olam Zerowa(The Everlasting Arms), El Deah(A God of Knowledge), El Elyon(The Most High), Gelah Raz(Revealer of Mysteries), Elohim-Ma arakah Yisrael(God of the Armies of Israel), Jehovah-Rapha(The God who Heals), 'Attiyq Yowm(The Ancient of Days), El Chuwl(The God who gave you Birth), Jehovah Jireh(The Lord will Provide), El Roi(The God Who Sees), Jehovah-Shaphat(The Lord Our Judge), Jehovah(The Self-Existent One), Elohim-Yachal(The God of Hope), Adonai(Lord), Jehovah Ori(The Lord is My Light), El Hakabodh(The God of Glory), Jehovah-Bore(The Lord Creator), Jehovah-Shalom(The Lord is Peace), Rumn Ro'sh(The One who Lifts My Head), El Shimchah Giyl(God My Exceeding Joy), Melek Kabowd(King of Glory)

but I know him as Jesus Immanuel -( God with us) and through Jesus, (because of my sins), and the fact that I cannot approach the Father, accept through Jesus. My saviour,

My Lord and my redeemer.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." (Revelation 22:13)

"… but the Lamb will overcome them because He is the Lord of lords and King of kings …" (Revelation 17:14)

"On His robe and on His thigh He has this Name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS." (Revelation 19:16

[buckee]

Re: Religous question

So, to answer your question, I believe the Father is in the son, the son is in the Father, They are one in the same. The Father is a personage revealed through a person, his son.

Complicated but not.

[buckee]

Re: Religous question

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you say you dont Hate anyone for there religion......lol lets sugar coat it a bit more shall we.....

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LOL ... you don't know what your talking about CH. Your the accusing one here. You say I hate anyone who is what I believe to be in a cult and you have no idea what your talking about. If I was to sugar-coat what I believe, then I'd be at fault.

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Truth is something that can be proved without a shadow of doubt

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you wouldn't know, because you haven't proven it to yourself yet. Your a fence-sitter CH. You haven't decided quite yet which side to jump off to. Your Luke-warm CH

Look who's calling someone a judge. You got your robe on today???

[popgun]

Re: Religious question

I found this on the news today and thought it was interesting.

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Jews, Mormons to Meet Over Baptisms

2 hours, 3 minutes ago

By MARK THIESSEN, Associated Press Writer

SALT LAKE CITY - Jewish leaders claim Mormons continue to posthumously baptize Jews and Holocaust victims, and will confront church leaders with a decade of frustration over what they call broken promises.

"We have proof, and we are bringing that," said Ernest Michel, chairman of the New York-based World Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors.

The Mormon church has long collected names from government documents and other records worldwide for posthumous baptisms. Church members stand in for the deceased non-Mormons, a ritual the church says is required for the dead to reach heaven. The church believes individuals' ability to choose a religion continues beyond the grave.

Michel plans to show posthumous baptism records to church officials in meetings Sunday and Monday. He says the records prove tens of thousands of Jews, including some who died in Nazi concentration camps, were posthumously baptized over the past 10 years and as recently as last month.

A 1995 agreement signed by Jewish leaders and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints called for an immediate halt to unwanted proxy baptisms. After evidence was found in the church's massive International Genealogical Index that the baptisms for many Jews — including Anne Frank — continued, the two faiths reaffirmed the agreement in 2002.

Jewish leaders in New York have bitterly complained the baptisms never stopped, and last year asked Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton to intervene. She met with Sen. Orrin Hatch (news, bio, voting record), an Utah Republican and active Mormon, though neither side would discuss what was said.

The church, too, declined comment Thursday. "The church won't be commenting at all on this issue for the moment. We are looking forward to discussions with our Jewish guests," spokeswoman Kim Farah said.

Under the Mormon practice, most Catholic popes have been proxy baptized, as have historical figures like Ghengis Khan, Joan of Arc, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Buddha, according to Helen Radkey, an independent genealogical researcher in Salt Lake City.

However, the church directed its members after 1995 to not include for baptism the names of Jewish Holocaust victims, celebrities and people who aren't relatives.

The church also assumes the closest living relative of the deceased being offered for proxy baptism has consented.

Carol Skydell, also a researcher, said that didn't happen when her paternal grandparents and aunt and uncle apparently were given a baptism by proxy. She found their proxy baptism records in 2002.

"Nobody asked me, nobody asked my cousin. It's ridiculous," Skydell said.

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.....popgun

[slugshooter]

Re: Religous question

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So when I express what I believe to be the truth, about another religion or faith, that is what I believe.

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I used to believe everything the church I belonged to when I was a kid told me about other religions and their practices, when I grew up and started finding out for myself that most of what I was told in a pentecostal church was lies. My mom was actually told when she was a child that making the sign of the cross like the Catholics do was EVIL !! Gimme a break. She and my step-father go to an Episcopal church now and some people from a Baptist church down the road came to the door and invited them to church. My step-father politely told them that they were members of Grace Episcopal. The woman got a stern look on her face and said " Oh, Do they preach the gospel there !! " Needless to say the door didn't stay open for much longer.

Just because a preacher tells you about what other churches practice or believe does not necessarily make it true.

This is a real good one. The last church I attended regularly, during a Wednesday night bible study, the subject of the Hebrews drinking wine and Jesus turning water into wine was brought up. Basically he said that they didn't have anything else to drink back then, well, hello, you gotta have water, and that it wasn't really wine, it was grape juice, gimme a break. If the bible commands us to "Be not drunk with wine." Then it weren't no grape juice they were drinking back then.

[slugshooter]

Re: Religious question

[ QUOTE ]

SALT LAKE CITY - Jewish leaders claim Mormons continue to posthumously baptize Jews and Holocaust victims, and will confront church leaders with a decade of frustration over what they call broken promises.

"We have proof, and we are bringing that," said Ernest Michel, chairman of the New York-based World Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors.

The Mormon church has long collected names from government documents and other records worldwide for posthumous baptisms. Church members stand in for the deceased non-Mormons, a ritual the church says is required for the dead to reach heaven. The church believes individuals' ability to choose a religion continues beyond the grave.

Michel plans to show posthumous baptism records to church officials in meetings Sunday and Monday. He says the records prove tens of thousands of Jews, including some who died in Nazi concentration camps, were posthumously baptized over the past 10 years and as recently as last month.

A 1995 agreement signed by Jewish leaders and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints called for an immediate halt to unwanted proxy baptisms. After evidence was found in the church's massive International Genealogical Index that the baptisms for many Jews — including Anne Frank — continued, the two faiths reaffirmed the agreement in 2002.

Jewish leaders in New York have bitterly complained the baptisms never stopped, and last year asked Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton to intervene. She met with Sen. Orrin Hatch (news, bio, voting record), an Utah Republican and active Mormon, though neither side would discuss what was said.

The church, too, declined comment Thursday. "The church won't be commenting at all on this issue for the moment. We are looking forward to discussions with our Jewish guests," spokeswoman Kim Farah said.

Under the Mormon practice, most Catholic popes have been proxy baptized, as have historical figures like Ghengis Khan, Joan of Arc, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Buddha, according to Helen Radkey, an independent genealogical researcher in Salt Lake City.

However, the church directed its members after 1995 to not include for baptism the names of Jewish Holocaust victims, celebrities and people who aren't relatives.

The church also assumes the closest living relative of the deceased being offered for proxy baptism has consented.

Carol Skydell, also a researcher, said that didn't happen when her paternal grandparents and aunt and uncle apparently were given a baptism by proxy. She found their proxy baptism records in 2002.

"Nobody asked me, nobody asked my cousin. It's ridiculous," Skydell said.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh God-forbid. The HORROR that is being endured by these people by having some being baptised after death. Heck, I wonder what they would say if the Mormons were praying their loved ones into **** instead of praying them into heaven. What's next, a ban on intercessory prayer because the person you are standing in for might not want to be prayed for.

One of my cousins still attends an Apostolic church, a hard core pentecostal religion, the other one I have mentioned as the convert to Judaism. They believe that water baptism is essential for entrance into heaven and that when you are baptised it has to be "In the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ", actually, you can still get to heaven without this but you're rewards aren't as great, that's how it was explained to me. When I was seven years old and got saved I was baptised "In the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit." Same thing, just a longer way of saying Jesus. But I was told it was a proclamation of my salvation, not a requirement.

[buckee]

Re: Religous question

I've heard people say it was grape-juice too slugger ...LOL..

Just have to keep in mind that getting sauced on wine and having a drink of wine are two different things eh'

[slugshooter]

Re: Religous question

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I've heard people say it was grape-juice too slugger ...LOL..

Just have to keep in mind that getting sauced on wine and having a drink of wine are two different things eh'

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a Bud Light man myself. Wine tastes like crap.

[johnf]

Re: Religous question

This is pretty spooky, I've agreed with almost everything sluggo has said here. It's a sign of the times. The end is near.

Here are a couple of the verses some of you have tried to quote.

Holman Christain Standard Bible

Rev. 22:18-19 I testify to everyone who hears the prophetic words of theis book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book. 19. And if anyone takes away from the words of this prophetic book, God will take away his share of the tree of life and the holy city, written in this book.

2nd John :7-11

Many deceivers have gone out into the world: they do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. This is the deciever and the antichrist. Watch yourselvesso that you don't lose what we have worked for, but you ay receive a full reward. Anyone who does not remain in the teacing about Christ, but goes beyond it, does not have God. The one who remains in the teacing, this one has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your home, and don't say, "Welcome," to him, for the one who says, "welcome, " to him shares in his evil works.

MY answer to the original question is this.

Every morman that I've ever met has lived a spotless lifestyle, they have been very nice very loving people, their children are well behaved and you could not ask for a more geniuine, humble person.

I would vote for a mormon who lived a good lifestyle a lot quicker than I would vote for a baptist (I'm baptist) who just warms a pew and doesn't believe or practice his Christianity.