Will we ever get them??

[Swamphunter]

Do you think we will ever capture or kill Bin Laden or Al Zarqawi?? I think it is a matter of time. As long as President Bush is in office, I think the hunt will be on. Who knows what will occur if they are not captured during his term. I am not saying that another President wouldn't, but we all know that Bush is attament they are brought to justice. I think unless we capture or kill them, the US has a big black eye as far as the world opinion is. We are the most advanced, have the most incredible servicemen and women,the best technology...I can't wait to turn on the t.v. and see Fox News with a breaking story that they have been captured...(or killed), all the same to me, but I would prefer to see them in chains. Can you imagine the security at that trial! They'd make the Michael Jackson trial look like a joke!

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Re: Will we ever get them??

Michael Jackson trial is a joke because he is a joke

You know, you would think with all the intel devices we have out there, we would have caught them or for that matter, catch anyone we are looking for. But I think they are playing a game with us. I think Bin Laden was gone before we even went over there. I don't think he is even in that country right now. Oh yeah, I think they are planning something big right now too, JMO

As far as the other dude, I think we will get him before Bin Laden. It's only a matter of time for that guy. Someone is going to rat him out someday.

And your right, I have CNN set as my homepage on Internet Explorer. I am also waiting for that time when I log on only to see that they killed the guy and all of his followers

[wtnhunt]

Re: Will we ever get them??

Have to agree with Mike. Think we will get zarqawi before we get bin laden. But do think it is only a matter of time before we get both of them.

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Re: Will we ever get them??

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i wonder why it was easier to find Saddam Hussien adn not Bin Laden when he was the one who set up the attacks i just seems to me that he would be a bigger priority JMO not wanting to start a conflict JMO!!!!

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Yeah, you and I both but nonetheless, we need to finish what we started now. This has been argued in here time and time again with no results except locked posts and folks angry at each other.

William, I might have to argue that one about Bin Laden....dunno. I think he can hide from us and stay hidden if he wants too. I think he will end up dying on his own first, hopefully not but I have this felling ya know. I bet he has more security and more "intel" as far as keeping himself hidden, then our President has. Some people you just cannot find. It does make you wonder though "HOW" we don't find people. You watch a movie like Enemy of the State and you just wonder how in the world.........and so on and so on

[wtnhunt]

Re: Will we ever get them??

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You watch a movie like Enemy of the State and you just wonder how in the world.........and so on and so on

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No doubt we have great technology, but dont think we are to the point of the movies just yet. Satellite imagery cannot zoom like in that movie and there are not cameras on every street corner around the world.

I think eventually someone somewhere who knows where he is will be brave or stupid enough, depending on how you look at it, to turn him in for the reward.

[stevebeilgard]

Re: Will we ever get them??

we'l get them both. been close many times.

[7th]

Re: Will we ever get them??

I too am looking forward to seeing them out of our way but I do hope we catch them and let the world court take care of them, that way they can not be used as marters and set everyone with a bomb vest off on a quest.

[Guest deldeer]

Re: Will we ever get them??

i'll go out in left field here for a moment.......i was reading in a magazine somewhere that our gov. may not want to actually bring them in, & they are watching them, & keeping track of them. the reason is it would be easier to keep forces in the area to monitor things if we have a purpose for being there. it was a little different point of view i thought. i sometimes wonder if this is true because i think we have the ability to take him out if we really wanted to

[6sixpoint_nobrows]

Re: Will we ever get them??

i just hope we get those jerks soon!

[slugshooter]

Re: Will we ever get them??

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i'll go out in left field here for a moment.......i was reading in a magazine somewhere that our gov. may not want to actually bring them in, & they are watching them, & keeping track of them. the reason is it would be easier to keep forces in the area to monitor things if we have a purpose for being there. it was a little different point of view i thought. i sometimes wonder if this is true because i think we have the ability to take him out if we really wanted to

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That's a somewhat plausible theory. Not saying I agree wholeheartedly, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: Will we ever get them??

We had bin Laden in 1998 but the President chose not to accept him as a prisoner.

We had him at Tora Bora but because of the political situation we decided to let the Afghan militia take him and he was able to use some of his millions to bribe some militia commanders to let him escape into Pakistan.

We're currently gearing up for a major offensive in the Pakistan - Afghanistan border area as soon as the Spring thaw happens. Also, for the first time ever it looks like the Pakistani government will let US troops conduct operations in their country. That will give us a chance to move into areas that were previously off limits to us and should result in the capture or death of bin Laden.

BTW - Bin Laden's personal bodyguards all have standing orders from bin Laden himself to NOT let him be taken alive. They are supposed to kill him rather than let him be captured, so we may never see a captive bin Laden.

[slugshooter]

Re: Will we ever get them??

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We had bin Laden in 1998 but the President chose not to accept him as a prisoner.

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Thats been proven as false. The lead was offered by a middle easterner looking to profit off of the US Government.

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We had him at Tora Bora but because of the political situation we decided to let the Afghan militia take him and he was able to use some of his millions to bribe some militia commanders to let him escape into Pakistan.

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Should have stuck with the plan instead of shifting focus to Iraq.

[craig mack]

Re: Will we ever get them??

I hope so. They should have stuck to the plan like sluggo said. I have faith that our guys will find him dead or alive.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: Will we ever get them??

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Thats been proven as false. The lead was offered by a middle easterner looking to profit off of the US Government.

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And your source for that would be???

I'm just repeating EXACTLY what former President Clinton said. He clearly stated that we were offered bin Laden but we refused to take him at that time.

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We had him at Tora Bora but because of the political situation we decided to let the Afghan militia take him and he was able to use some of his millions to bribe some militia commanders to let him escape into Pakistan.

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Should have stuck with the plan instead of shifting focus to Iraq.

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Our actions in Iraq had nothing to do with it. I wasn't talking about the political situation in America, I was talking about the politcal situation in Afghanistan. That's what dictated that we rely on local Afghan militia to take bin Laden.

[carbonhunter]

Re: Will we ever get them??

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And your source for that would be???

I'm just repeating EXACTLY what former President Clinton said. He clearly stated that we were offered bin Laden but we refused to take him at that time.

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We have beat this horse in here for close to a year and a half.

But i would LOVE to know where clinton is quoted as saying that.

[slugshooter]

Re: Will we ever get them??

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But i would LOVE to know where clinton is quoted as saying that.

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Nowhere.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: Will we ever get them??

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But i would LOVE to know where clinton is quoted as saying that.

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Nowhere.

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I've actually heard the audio recording of it several times. I'm not exactly sure of the details, but he was addressing some type of media gathering after he was out of office. Approximately 2001 - 2002 time period.

If you're really interested I'll see if I can find an online version of the recording.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: Will we ever get them??

I didn't find a link to the audio, but I did find a transcript.

It’s from Feb. 15, 2002 in an address that Clinton made at a “Long Island Association” luncheon. Whatever in the heck that is…

"Mr. bin Laden used to live in Sudan."

"He was expelled from Saudi Arabia in 1991, then he went to Sudan. And we'd been hearing that the Sudanese wanted America to start meeting with them again."

"They released him."

"At the time, 1996, he had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him, though we knew he wanted to commit crimes against America."

"So I pleaded with the Saudis to take him, 'cause they could have, but they thought it was a hot potato and they didn't and that's how he wound up in Afghanistan."

The statement about "he had committed no crime against America" is factually incorrect.

In October 1993, 18 U.S. servicemen involved in the U.S. humanitarian relief effort in Somalia were killed during an operation in Mogadishu. Their bodies were dragged through the streets.

Bin Laden was indicted in 1996 on charges of training the people involved in the attack and in a 1997 interview with CNN, bin Laden said his followers, together with local Muslims, killed those troops.

U.S. law enforcement also alleges that bin Laden has ties to failed attacks on two hotels in Yemen where U.S. troops stayed en route to Somalia.

So we had more than enough reason to justify grabbing him when he was offered up by the Sudanese.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: Will we ever get them??

BTW - I was incorrect on the dates in my original post. It was 1996 when we could have had bin Laden, not 1998. I was pulling that info from memory and got it wrong. My bad...

[slugshooter]

Re: Will we ever get them??

Here's the full transcript. The Sudanese government wanting to talk to us doesn't mean Bin Laden was offered to us. The Saudi's didn't want him, I wonder why?

Ex-President Clinton's Remarks on Osama bin Laden

Delivered to the Long Island Association's Annual Luncheon

Crest Hollow Country Club, Woodbury, NY

Feb. 15, 2002

Question from LIA President Matthew Crosson:

CROSSON: In hindsight, would you have handled the issue of terrorism, and al-Qaeda specifically, in a different way during your administration?

CLINTON: Well, it's interesting now, you know, that I would be asked that question because, at the time, a lot of people thought I was too obsessed with Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda.

And when I bombed his training camp and tried to kill him and his high command in 1998 after the African embassy bombings, some people criticized me for doing it. We just barely missed him by a couple of hours.

I think whoever told us he was going to be there told somebody who told him that our missiles might be there. I think we were ratted out.

We also bombed a chemical facility in Sudan where we were criticized, even in this country, for overreaching. But in the trial in New York City of the al-Qaeda people who bombed the African embassy, they testified in the trial that the Sudanese facility was, in fact, a part of their attempt to stockpile chemical weapons.

So we tried to be quite aggressive with them. We got - uh - well, Mr. bin Laden used to live in Sudan. He was expelled from Saudi Arabia in 1991, then he went to Sudan.

And we'd been hearing that the Sudanese wanted America to start dealing with them again.

They released him. At the time, 1996, he had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him, though we knew he wanted to commit crimes against America.

So I pleaded with the Saudis to take him, 'cause they could have. But they thought it was a hot potato and they didn't and that's how he wound up in Afghanistan.

We then put a lot of sanctions on the Afghan government and - but they inter-married, Mullah Omar and bin Laden. So that essentially the Taliban didn't care what we did to them.

Now, if you look back - in the hindsight of history, everybody's got 20/20 vision - the real issue is should we have attacked the al-Qaeda network in 1999 or in 2000 in Afghanistan.

Here's the problem. Before September 11 we would have had no support for it - no allied support and no basing rights. So we actually trained to do this. I actually trained people to do this. We trained people.

But in order to do it, we would have had to take them in on attack helicopters 900 miles from the nearest boat - maybe illegally violating the airspace of people if they wouldn't give us approval. And we would have had to do a refueling stop.

And we would have had to make the decision in advance that's the reverse of what President Bush made - and I agreed with what he did. They basically decided - this may be frustrating to you now that we don't have bin Laden. But the president had to decide after Sept. 11, which am I going to do first? Just go after bin Laden or get rid of the Taliban?

He decided to get rid of the Taliban. I personally agree with that decision, even though it may or may not have delayed the capture of bin Laden. Why?

Because, first of all the Taliban was the most reactionary government on earth and there was an inherent value in getting rid of them.

Secondly, they supported terrorism and we'd send a good signal to governments that if you support terrorism and they attack us in America, we will hold you responsible.

Thirdly, it enabled our soldiers and Marines and others to operate more safely in-country as they look for bin Laden and the other senior leadership, because if we'd have had to have gone in there to just sort of clean out one area, try to establish a base camp and operate.

So for all those reasons the military recommended against it. There was a high probability that it wouldn't succeed.

Now I had one other option. I could have bombed or sent more missiles in. As far as we knew he never went back to his training camp. So the only place bin Laden ever went that we knew was occasionally he went to Khandahar where he always spent the night in a compound that had 200 women and children.

So I could have, on any given night, ordered an attack that I knew would kill 200 women and children that had less than a 50 percent chance of getting him.

Now, after he murdered 3,100 of our people and others who came to our country seeking their livelihood you may say, "Well, Mr. President, you should have killed those 200 women and children."

But at the time we didn't think he had the capacity to do that. And no one thought that I should do that. Although I take full responsibility for it. You need to know that those are the two options I had. And there was less than a 50/50 chance that the intelligence was right that on this particular night he was in Afghanistan.

Now, we did do a lot of things. We tried to get the Pakistanis to go get him. They could have done it and they wouldn't. They changed governments at the time from Mr. Sharif to President Musharraf. And we tried to get others to do it. We had a standing contract between the CIA and some groups in Afghanistan authorizing them and paying them if they should be successful in arresting and/or killing him.

So I tried hard to - I always thought this guy was a big problem. And apparently the options I had were the options that the President and Vice President Cheney and Secretary Powell and all the people that were involved in the Gulf War thought that they had, too, during the first eight months that they were there - until Sept. 11 changed everything.

But I did the best I could with it and I do not believe, based on what options were available to me, that I could have done much more than I did. Obviously, I wish I'd been successful. I tried a lot of different ways to get bin Laden 'cause I always thought he was a very dangerous man. He's smart, he's bold and committed.

But I think it's very important that the Bush administration do what they're doing to keep the soldiers over there to keep chasing him. But I know - like I said - I know it might be frustrating to you. But it's still better for bin Laden to worry every day more about whether he's going to see the sun come up in the morning than whether he's going to drop a bomb, another bomb somewhere in the U.S. or in Europe or on some other innocent civilians. (END OF TRANSCRIPT)