johnf Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Ok. Lets start this out with a disclaimer. I don't want this to be a challange or a debate. Just a simple statement of what you think salvation is and what the qualifications for salvations are and where you get it. Salvation to me is what happens when your name is put in the Lambs book of life that will be opened on judgement day. The qualifications are simple, you must believe that Jesus is the true, one and only sone of God, that he lived, died on the cross and rose again on the the third day. This is the only qualification that I see is the key to salvation. I get this from John 3:15 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton Son, that whosoever believe in him shal not parish, but have everlasting life. The only thing I see there as a qualification is that we believe. So then, I think that is all it takes. Again, let me stress, my intent is not a debate. Only enlightenment on why you believe what it is you believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish [ QUOTE ] The only thing I see there as a qualification is that we believe. So then, I think that is all it takes. [/ QUOTE ] Without going to looking in the book and quoting scriptures, I know Gods son, Jesus, died for me on the cross and that he is my savior. Acceptance of Christ as my/your savior. That is the key to salvation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronS Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish [ QUOTE ] Just a simple statement of what you think salvation is and what the qualifications for salvations are and where you get it. [/ QUOTE ] What salvation is: I like your definition. I could not have said it better myself. Qualifications: Believing Jesus died on the cross for our sins and rose on the third day, and asking him to forgive our sins. Where do I get it from: I don't have a bible right next to me but it's all over the new testament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuntingInMaine Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish Salvation: I don't feel I was ever lost, therefore I don't need to be "saved" in the context given in the bible. I don't believe God is ever not with us, we just don't pay attention sometimes. With that said, my version of salvation is when you realize you are never alone or forgotten. Qualifications: I don't think you need to do anything but believe....your skin color, sexual orientation, or religion don't matter. My grandmother used to send me this magazine called Angels, for my birthday. In it was stories from people who followed religions from Jewish to Catholic to Baptist and lots of others in between. Each one of these people had experiences where loved ones who had passed or other angels visited them during especially tramatic or dangerous situations. This really got me thinking about the strict baptist family I was brought up in. If you follow the teachings of the bible (as taught in the baptist church), the Jewish faith has it all wrong because they don't believe Jesus has come yet, and the Catholics pray to Mary and other saints, so they don't make it to heaven either. If this were true then why do people from ALL religions have experiences with loved ones who have passed on (and also shared the same religious faith)? It would seem if the Catholics "have it right", then they would be the only ones seeing these things because the Baptists would have all gone to ****. So, I don't think you need to do anything but love and accept God as your own. Where do I get it from: My heart! I know most won't agree, but it resonates with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KSNimrod Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish You put your right foot in, you put your right foot out, you put your right foot in and you shake it all about. You do the hokey-pokey and you turn yourself around and THAT'S what it's all about! J/K! Actually, Tbird summed it up quite nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish Tbird hit it It order to be saved, we must first recognize why God sent his Son to die in our place. What are we being saved from? Jesus said we are all sinners, every single one of us. There is no-one exempt, so no-one can boast about how much better they are from someone else, when it comes to good works or sin. Until we recognize that Jesus was sacrificed in our place and recognize the sin in our own lives, then a faith in God is an empty faith with no value or substance. In order to be saved, you must first recognize that you are lost. Jesus himself said "I have come to save that which was lost" . A misleading interpretation of "I have come to save the unrighteous not the righteous" if read all by itself would imply that there may be righteous people out there that don't need saving, but Jesus clarified that when he said :"there is no one that is good, no, not even one" "Faith comes from hearing, and hearing from the word of God" ... so in-order for us to even begin to understand or have faith in what Jesus has done, we must first recognize our sinful state and that we are indeed lost. That has nothing to do with works, it is a matter of the heart and faith in God's word. The old testament tells us how God established commandments for mankind and the consequences of not following them. If you look at all the great men and women in the bible, they were not without sin in their lives, it was their constant relationship with God through prayer and their willingness to recognize their sins, that saved them. Grace was even in the works for the Israelites back then, but was made for all people when Jesus became the sacrifice for all man-kind. So although I agree with John in the original post, and that works cannot save any man, but only Faith in Jesus Christ, there is still that one thing we must all do before we get to that point, and that is to believe, that Christ died in our place, for our sins, and that he rose from the dead on the third day, in the flesh. "that he rose from the dead on the third day, in the flesh" ...without that, there would be no Christianity, and no hope of things to come. Even his followers were dismayed and bewildered after he was dead and buried and were about to return to their everyday life. But when he rose from the dead, they then realized and understood, all the things He had told them, and their faith was made strong. They then preached the Gospel with more boldness than ever before, and even were willing to die for it. They had walked with Jesus, talked with Jesus, witnessed his death and the disappointment of it all, and then witnessed his resurrection. They knew who he was then. "There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the way there of, is eternal damnation" That's why I don't rely on my own interpretation or understanding of who God is, apart from what is written in the bible, I trust in his word, because his word was made flesh in Jesus. To trust in Jesus, is to trust in his word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish Think most of the book of John chapter 5 talks about faith. "whosoever believeth", which to me means that you believe and accept Christ as your savior it and ask for his forgiveness, you will be saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish Most of you know my beliefs. I'll play devil's advocate: Can an all loving, all forgiving Father dam n an aboriginal person who has no way of knowing Jesus or his Father or the Holy Spirit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andymansavage Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish Saved from what? saved from death- All men were saved from death when christ was ressurected. Every human will live again. Saved from sin- A little more tricky than "believing" JAMES 2:14-26 What doth it profit, my bretheren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? CAN FAITH SAVE HIM? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so FAITH, IF IT HATH NOT WORKS, IS DEAD,BEING ALONE. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one god; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know,O vain man, that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD? Was not abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought his works, and by works was faith made perfect? YE SEE THEN HOW THAT BY WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, AND NOT BY FAITH ONLY. Likewise also was not rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messangers, and sent them out another way? FOR AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD, SO FAIT WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ALSO. We are saved by the grace of christ after all we can do, work,work,work. Nobody can say they are saved yet. Andy PS. stick to the subject....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish [ QUOTE ] Saved from what? saved from death- All men were saved from death when christ was ressurected. Every human will live again. Saved from sin- A little more tricky than "believing" JAMES 2:14-26 What doth it profit, my bretheren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? CAN FAITH SAVE HIM? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so FAITH, IF IT HATH NOT WORKS, IS DEAD,BEING ALONE. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one god; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know,O vain man, that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD? Was not abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought his works, and by works was faith made perfect? YE SEE THEN HOW THAT BY WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, AND NOT BY FAITH ONLY. Likewise also was not rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messangers, and sent them out another way? FOR AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD, SO FAIT WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ALSO. We are saved by the grace of christ after all we can do, work,work,work. Nobody can say they are saved yet. Andy PS. stick to the subject....... [/ QUOTE ] I beilieve I asked that this not be an arguement. Your picking a fight. If you want to do that fell free, but I'm not playing that game on this post. BTW If you want to play, be prepared to loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andymansavage Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish How did I pick a fight???? You asked for what I believe and that is it. I'm sorry if I pointed out a glaring inconsistency in your belief system, but that was not my intent. You should have titled the thread: "Everyone who thinks they are saved and done with it, post here" Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works , that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish [ QUOTE ] Saved from what? saved from death- All men were saved from death when christ was ressurected. Every human will live again. Saved from sin- A little more tricky than "believing" [/ QUOTE ] That just "sounds" adversarial to me. You can say what you believe without telling someone else they are wrong, or questioning thier beliefs. That's they way I took it. I apoligies if that is not what you intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andymansavage Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish [ QUOTE ] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works , that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9) [/ QUOTE ] I agree 100%. No man can save himself, he must be saved. PS My scripture is longer than yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish andyman, if you would like to discuss this on another post I would be happy to. But we are getting off the point of this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andymansavage Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish What is this thread about then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish Look here ladies, all I want to know is who is right and who is wrong because from what I am seeing, it doesn't look to good for ol mikeeee here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish [ QUOTE ] Ok. Lets start this out with a disclaimer. I don't want this to be a challange or a debate. Just a simple statement of what you think salvation is and what the qualifications for salvations are and where you get it. Again, let me stress, my intent is not a debate. Only enlightenment on why you believe what it is you believe. [/ QUOTE ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish Have to start another thread for that one Mike since this one asked that we don't debate, just state what we believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish I believe we are saved by Faith and God's Grace alone, as I tried hard to explain above. The thief on the cross beside Jesus had no time to do any good works to prove his faith in who the Lord was and what he was doing. Jesus said "today you will be with me in paradice". With that said, what about those who are saved today, through there faith in Jesus. Does that mean because they are saved by grace they now have the excuse to do nothing. Like Andy said above and like the scripture he quoted says, "Faith without works is dead". What kind of faith would that be if we said we believed, and then failed to act and follow him in our everyday lives. Once saved always saved, .....yes, I believe that, if indeed the person in question actually acknowledged his sinfulness, by confessing to the lord and "willing" to turn from those sins. What comes after we are saved, is a life-long walk in Christ that brings us closer to him. The things we do after we are saved, is indeed proof of what we believe in our hearts. Even those who are saved will have to stand before the Lord and give an account of ourselves someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish [ QUOTE ] We are saved by the grace of christ after all we can do, work,work,work. Nobody can say they are saved yet. [/ QUOTE ] If I died right now, while I'm typing this, I trust, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I am saved by God's Grace. If I were to trust in some sort of works to save me after I've worked, worked, worked, then Jesus died for nothing, and the meaning of the word Grace would be a lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KSNimrod Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish Salvation is indeed both a process and a moment. I've heard it summed up this way: When I accepted Christ I was freed from the PENALTY of sin. As I follow him on earth I am being freed from the POWER of sin. When I die and go to be with Him I'll be free from the PRESENCE of sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 14, 2005 Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish Very eloquent way of putting it KSNimrod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish [ QUOTE ] Salvation is indeed both a process and a moment. I've heard it summed up this way: When I accepted Christ I was freed from the PENALTY of sin. As I follow him on earth I am being freed from the POWER of sin. When I die and go to be with Him I'll be free from the PRESENCE of sin. [/ QUOTE ] And that would indeed be the greatest definition of "Sanctification" that I have ever heard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reloader Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 Re: Religous post. Not for the Squeemish [ QUOTE ] Salvation is indeed both a process and a moment. I've heard it summed up this way: When I accepted Christ I was freed from the PENALTY of sin. As I follow him on earth I am being freed from the POWER of sin. When I die and go to be with Him I'll be free from the PRESENCE of sin. [/ QUOTE ] Excelent summary to my mind! Belief and trust(faith) in christ for salvation from your sin and the penalty it should bring, is the one and only requirement for salvation. Someone may Backslide...but who are we to say wether they messed up or were never saved...only God knows that. If backsliding condemmed us we would ALL be in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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