Religious question

[wtnhunt]

With all the discussion about faith and believing, I am kind of curious about what some of you guys think happens under certain circumstances for those people who never have the opportunity to know God, like Chris mentioned in another post about aboriginees. Or for other people at a time in their life when they were in fact living a life as they should, for example say a person who endures some traumatic event or injury causing them to lose touch with their sanity or ability to have a rational thinking process and as a result they lose touch with God. They live the remainder of their life out of touch and away from God after an event that was not necessarily under their control.

Are these people still saved by a forgiving father?

[markyj987]

Re: Religious question

William, I can't quote the verse, but have been told that the Bible says all will have a chance to hear the Word of God. Perhaps someone here can pinpoint the verse(s) and correct my inept paraphrasing. Now, I don't know when they will hear it...maybe immediately after death?

For someone that was saved and then critically injured, went insane, etc, I believe this. Though their life on earth will be difficult...or they may spend it unaware of things around them, they will have a perfect spiritual body again when they are with the Father.

[slugshooter]

Re: Religious question

I am a firm believer that after Christ's death and resurrection he made himself known to other people and cultures. Having millions of people and generations condemned to **** because they didn't happen to live in Israel at the time of Christ or had to wait until Europeans discovered the new world does not fit my interpretation of a loving God.

[buckee]

Re: Religious question

I'm going to try to aswer this to the best of my abitity.

The Bible does not specifically address how God will deal with those who have never heard about Jesus. However, it doesn't leave us totally in the dark and eludes to a few scriptures that touch on the subject, and we can be sure from what is revealed in the Bible that God is just. He is the God of justice, and will therefore be fair in all his judgements. He is fairer and more just that we could ever be. The Bible says that he will judge people according to the way they respond to what has been revealed, apart from those who have heard the good news of Jesus and rejected him.

'For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse' (Rom 1:20)

The Bible tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself, down through the ages, in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11). The problem is that the human race is sinful; we all reject this knowledge of God and rebel against Him (Romans 1:21-23). Apart from God's grace, God would give us over to the sinful desires of our hearts, allowing us to discover how useless and miserable life is apart from Him. This He does for those who reject Him (Romans 1:24-32).

The Bible makes it clear that everyone has received some revelation. Creation itself is witness and testimony of a God who is awesome in power, while the wonder of a human personality suggests that our creator is relational and personal.

It is not that some people have not heard about God. but Rather, they have rejected what they have heard and what is readily seen in nature. Deuteronomy 4:29 “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle: everyone who truly seeks after God will find Him. If a person truly desires to know God, God will make Himself known.

However, our rebellious nature refuses to acknowledge this. Jesus taught that those who have had more revealed to them will be held more responsible. It is therefore a vital part of human responsibility to respond to the revelation that God has laid before you in the person of Jesus.

Here's the problem , “there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God” (Romans 3:11). People reject the knowledge of God that is present in nature and in their own heart, and instead decide to worship a “god” of their own creation. It is foolish to debate the fairness of God sending someone to **** who never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel of Christ. Mankind, down through the ages has been personally responsible to God, for what God has already revealed to them, to seek him out. The Bible says that people reject this knowledge, and therefore God is just.

I know that God is Just and will be just to all on judgement day.

Instead of debating the fate of those who have never heard, we, as Christians, should be doing our best to make sure that they hear. We are called to spread the Gospel throughout the world (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 1:8). The fact that we know people reject the knowledge of God revealed in nature should be enough to motivate us to proclaim the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. Only through accepting the Gospel of God’s grace through the Lord Jesus Christ can people be saved from their sins and rescued from an eternity separated from God.

Followers of Jesus are people with a deep compassion for those who have not heard about Jesus, because he is the one who offers mercy and forgiveness for all humanity, who have rejected what God has revealed.

Most certainly, those who have heard the Gospel and rejected God's offer of forgiveness will be judged on a totally different basis from those who while remaining in substantial darkness earnestly seek the truth, confess their sins and cast themselves on the mercy of God.

The Bible says God will judge all people righteously.

It looks to me, there will be a stricter judgment for those who have rejected the gospel of Jesus Christ than those who have never heard.

Paul tells us that those who have never heard of the law are not imputed sin under the law.

Paul also tells us that those who follow the law (e.g., practicing Jews) will be judged by the law and are obviously advised to seek Gods Grace.

The people who have never heard of the law are judged by the law of God which He has placed into their hearts:

"For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus." (Romans 2:14-16)

Good question for sure, but we should be careful not to use this question in our minds, as an excuse to ignore the claim of Jesus on our own lifes today. Seek God out, and turn back to him and trust in him.

The more I read the bible and ponder the fact that all the the books in the bible were fairly recently put together to form what we know today as the bible, the more one can understand that in this day and age, mankind (especially those who have read the bible and studied it's contents)is going to be held even more responsible and accountable, than in the past.

I could keep going here and add more info from the bible , but this took me an hour and I have to get to work on my Tax books guys

[Reloader]

Re: Religious question

This is a facinating question and I truly believe that we will not know for sure till we stand before him ourselves...

However, my thoughts are this:

Salvation is a condition of the spirit. There is no magic words or potion etc to give us salvation. I believe that if you have heard the message of christ and rejected it then you are lost(but can always change your mind and accept him untill the day you die) If you have never heard however I believe that God juges you based on your spirit. There are documented case where missionaries have come into remote areas that worshiped one God. When the missionaries began to preach they people were excited because they already knew the God the Christians spoke of, just didn't know his name. I believe that those of that tribe that died prior to the missionaries coming still go to heaven as they did know God and worshiped and accepted him but did not know his earthly name.

As a disclaimer this is not to say I believe that all religions that believe in one God are the same...only those that recognize one God and follow biblical principles but have no name for God..as in that one example I gave. If the religion names its God or follows Prophet's not in line with the bible then it is at best a cult of Christianity.

[wtnhunt]

Re: Religious question

Great reply. Thanks for your insight Steve.

[ QUOTE ]

The Bible tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself, down through the ages, in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean all people? If so the idea of rejection might apply to everyone.

Not really trying to debate anyones fate, but discussing to have a better understanding for myself. I am very aware that ultimately God will judge all and will do so fairly.

[Tominator]

Re: Religious question

OK, I'll be quite honest.

After my last battle with cancer I stepped away from the church a little bit, started questioning things, starting pitting my faith against what I learned in philosophy.

I've settled a lot of things in my life in the last year, and I don't feel comfortable telling anyone about them, not even my closest friends or priest.

One thing I can tell you, that I feel comfortable enough to talk about, but definitely don't have settled in my brain yet is that I believe my God is the absence of evil. He is perfect--all loving.

Damnation is the very essence of evil, the absence of love. How incredibly hurtful would that be for our Father to dam someone to h e l l for eternity?

I see no way that an all loving Father can commit a soul to that existence forever if they were a good person. And I'm talking about people of different faiths too, like Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc. who may have been brought up that way from the start by their parents and don't know anything else. I just don't see my God turning away from them.

[preacherman]

Re: Religious question

[ QUOTE ]

OK, I'll be quite honest.

After my last battle with cancer I stepped away from the church a little bit, started questioning things, starting pitting my faith against what I learned in philosophy.

I've settled a lot of things in my life in the last year, and I don't feel comfortable telling anyone about them, not even my closest friends or priest.

One thing I can tell you, that I feel comfortable enough to talk about, but definitely don't have settled in my brain yet is that I believe my God is the absence of evil. He is perfect--all loving.

Damnation is the very essence of evil, the absence of love. How incredibly hurtful would that be for our Father to dam someone to h e l l for eternity?

I see no way that an all loving Father can commit a soul to that existence forever if they were a good person. And I'm talking about people of different faiths too, like Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc. who may have been brought up that way from the start by their parents and don't know anything else. I just don't see my God turning away from them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't usually chime in on this site, but have to on this one. Tominator, where you take what you believe by faith.......I believe by faith as well, that the Bible is the Inspired, Infalliable Truth from God, therefore I believe that goodness has nothing to do with whether or not someone is going to be condemned to "that place", but rather it is all based on what someone has done with Christ. If we have trusted His gift, the blood that was shed on the cross of Calvary and have totally repented of our sins then we will inherit eternal life. If we have rejected, then the sad truth is that we are going to ****. And, yes, good people, church going people, go to **** each and every day of our lives. It is not based on goodness..........it is based on what we have done with God!