rossman Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] I see a lot of guys saying that feeding/baiting is the cause for the spread of cwd. I want to see someone back that up. [/ QUOTE ] What do you think happens when a deer licks or eats from a bait pile? He/she leaves saliva behind, and in effect any disease that is prevelant in saliva. Another deer licks or eats the same spot. This deer will ingest the salive particles from the infected deer. The second deer is contaminated. Bait piles are concentrated food sources. With alot of deer eating from the same spot. Thus transmitting disease. Now, because hunters have to use bait pile to kill their deer, they have to spread disease to do so. Fair to the deer and other hunters who do not use bait piles. i think not. So all you guys who have to use bait piles. Remember, the only reason you killed that nice buck is because of the bait pile 15 yards from your stand. Not because you scouted, found a travel route, and set up on the deer. You guys might as well set up a bait pile 20 yards from your sliding glass door in your backyard. Heck, you won't even have to go outside!!!! Just keep your door open a couple of inches, and let it fly!!!! You can be proud of that deer. I don't mean to offend anyone. A couple of years ago I was on the trail of a giant buck during archery season. All of a sudden he disapeared the last week of archery season. Apparently, the guy on the neighboring property setup an apple/corn bait pile. Because of this, alot of the areas does were hitting it. The opening day of gun season, this guy shot the deer over the bait pile. The buck must have found a doe in heat that was feeding their. Pissed me off to no end. Fair to the deer, no way. Legal in NY, no way. Let's just say the next year, the DEC was watching him opening morning and fined him for using a bait pile!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] I know my spelling was crappy on that post, "sorry" but I guess someone got me riled up....right rossman. [/ QUOTE ] No hard feelings, I just do not agree with it. But, I do not know what it is like up in your neck of the woods. I do not mean ay disrespect, sorry for that. This is just how I feel. the poster wanted to know why and how everyone felt!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaskMan Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] [so all you guys who have to use bait piles. Remember, the only reason you killed that nice buck is because of the bait pile 15 yards from your stand. Not because you scouted, found a travel route, and set up on the deer. You guys might as well set up a bait pile 20 yards from your sliding glass door in your backyard. Heck, you won't even have to go outside!!!! Just keep your door open a couple of inches, and let it fly!!!! You can be proud of that deer. /quote] How cannot I not be offended. I put out a bait pile every year, hunt over it a little, mostly on days when time limits me to other places. Some days I get less than 1hr of light when I return from work so I head to the baitpile 300 yards from the house. By6 the way it is in the middle of the bush so I cannot sit in the house and slide open the window. I'll mention again that I have never shot one over a bait pile and if you want to see pics of my 4 biggest bucks just let me know and I'll send them to you. To say that b/c I use a bait on occassion is a substitute for sportsmanship, and hunting skills, or scouting or whatever is a joke. You do not know the personal situation of the people on here that bait so don't personally bash their hunting skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [so all you guys who have to use bait piles. Remember, the only reason you killed that nice buck is because of the bait pile 15 yards from your stand. Not because you scouted, found a travel route, and set up on the deer. You guys might as well set up a bait pile 20 yards from your sliding glass door in your backyard. Heck, you won't even have to go outside!!!! Just keep your door open a couple of inches, and let it fly!!!! You can be proud of that deer. /quote] How cannot I not be offended. I put out a bait pile every year, hunt over it a little, mostly on days when time limits me to other places. Some days I get less than 1hr of light when I return from work so I head to the baitpile 300 yards from the house. By6 the way it is in the middle of the bush so I cannot sit in the house and slide open the window. I'll mention again that I have never shot one over a bait pile and if you want to see pics of my 4 biggest bucks just let me know and I'll send them to you. To say that b/c I use a bait on occassion is a substitute for sportsmanship, and hunting skills, or scouting or whatever is a joke. You do not know the personal situation of the people on here that bait so don't personally bash their hunting skills. [/ QUOTE ] If it is so hard to hunt deer where you are. Why not hunt them from helicopter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrea Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? I hunt over corn and over food plots. It's legal here only on private land. I don't really have a problem with it. If you want to get nit-picky about it...what's the difference with using corn and using the various other techniques like doe-in-heat gels, buck scents, decoys and calls. They are ALL types of baiting and luring methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaskMan Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] If it is so hard to hunt deer where you are. Why not hunt them from helicopter? [/ QUOTE ] I guess someone is now getting ignorant. I'll just leave this alone. I have nothing against baiting, I've made that clear. I guess I have way more against people that bad mouth those that do. Maybe bad mouthing people who bait is a way of trying to feel like a superior hunter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LDB Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? I see a lot of posts assuming that feeding deer = spreading disease. This is not always necessarily the case. Take for example the situation where 100 deer are yarded up for the winter on a quarter section of alfalfa. If you set up 3 or 4 winter feeding sites around the area, you divide up the herd so that instead of 100 deer concentrated on one area, you might have groups of 20 deer spread out in the area, thus reducing the possible transmission of disease. In this case, supplemental winter deer feeding can reduce the transmission of disease. In any event, transmission of disease in winter yards is not necessarily a bad thing either. The overall strength of the herd is increased when the strong deer develop immunities to certain diseases while the weak or susceptible die off. Small deer herds kept in isolation can become quite susceptible to disease because they have never had a chance to develop their natural immunities. As far as hunting over bait, I don't hunt on my own property, but I let other guys out who hunt over bait piles. They put down oats and alfalfa, but the real bait is the does. Large bucks rarely come to the feed during daylight. However, they will come to court the does on occasion. Hunting techniques such as rattling, grunting, and mock scrapes are used. Often the hunters will not set up over the bait itself, but on rublines or trails away from the bait since the big bucks will stage in the surrounding bush until dark. Last year, hunters spent approximately 60-80 hours hunting out at my place. In all that time, only 1 mature buck came into the open during daylight, and he was responding to grunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesVee Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? Ross, you're still not backing it up. Prove to me that CWD CAN BE DIRECTLY linked to swapping of saliva. I want to know of a case where one deer has cwd, licks a salt block, another deer comes along, licks that same spot and later dies from the CWD he picked up from licking that same salt block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] Prove to me that CWD CAN BE DIRECTLY linked to swapping of saliva. [/ QUOTE ] You know, now that CWD has been found here in NY, I kind of look at that request from a completely different viewpoint. I would like someone to prove to me that CWD is NOT spread in that fashion before I start pushing for legalization of an activity that promotes that kind of contact. Everything that I have read shows a total lack of understanding as to the mechanics of transmission. That includes all the expert biologists and scientists that are active in the study of this disease. It's probably not too likely that there is anyone here on this forum that all of a sudden has the answer. The question is: "Do you really want to take the chance of being wrong when dealing with a disease of this potential consequence"? If I had to make a gamble on it, I would guess that saliva to saliva contact probably is not a good thing. If baiting was the only way to successfully hunt deer, I would maybe be a bit more liberal in taking chances on that theory. But, we all know that it is not. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] Ross, you're still not backing it up. Prove to me that CWD CAN BE DIRECTLY linked to swapping of saliva. I want to know of a case where one deer has cwd, licks a salt block, another deer comes along, licks that same spot and later dies from the CWD he picked up from licking that same salt block. [/ QUOTE ] I guess Doc said it perfectly. Not much is known about the transfer of CWD. Now the question is, would you take the chance of baiting deer if it is possible to transfer CWD? I should not have to prove to you that it is transferable through saliva. You should prove it to yourself that it is not transferable, before you risk it!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If it is so hard to hunt deer where you are. Why not hunt them from helicopter? [/ QUOTE ] I guess someone is now getting ignorant. I'll just leave this alone. I have nothing against baiting, I've made that clear. I guess I have way more against people that bad mouth those that do. Maybe bad mouthing people who bait is a way of trying to feel like a superior hunter. [/ QUOTE ] Ignorant? Let's see!!!! If you need bait pile to kill deer than why not use other means like, helicopters, vehicles or even boats? Either way, it is an extra advantage over the deer. This is my point!!! Answer me this. If a hunter kills a B and C deer over bait, and a hunter kills the same deer without the use of bait. Should the baited deer go in the books with an asteriks "*" or even not at all. It's not fair to the hunter who killed the same deer without the use of bait!!!! I did not mean to offend you, sorry if I did. I just think baiting deer is cheating, and I would never do it. It is not important to kill deer in this manner!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesVee Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? Thank you Ross, I didnt' think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaskMan Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? Here you go Rossman, 201" and 205", neither killed near a bait,......but I must be an idiot and unfair and a poor hunter if I support baiting. By the way, I don't think anybody who shoots a Boone and Crocket buck at a bait deserves less credit than I, why should my Boone and Crocket bucks get more credit than someone else who used bait to help them out. That is a JOKE!!!!!! Heck, maybe we should not accept any more fresh water angling entries that were caught with the use of bait. "unless you swim the fish down yourself" they are not eligable for an sort of angling recognition. Sound rediculous, no more rediculous than your opinions on those who use bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskbuck40 Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? Deer Rossman, Go get yourself some not-so-serious pills and settle down. Everyone has their opinions, sure. But don't come on the forum and start beaking thinking your're the king. These forums are for genuine sportsmen who just love the outdoors. Food plots are the new thing in hunting. It's the new craze. Now tell me a rational explanation of how food plots and "baiting" are different. Who sets out food plots and doesen't hunt over them? Not very many people at all. Who "baits" and doesn't hunt over bait. I do, a lot of us up north do. Last year when it was -50 C for a week i went out and set out a few bails and some grain. Heck, i probly kept a number of deer living. How could that be a bad thing? When the poll was up, it was about 50/50 for and against baiting. Okay, now what percentage of those who voted against baiting use food plots? That should give you something to think about. Thought i'd bring that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? WOW !!! This topic has gone south... And SaskMan,,,Those are some great looking deer,,,man what brusers thise 2 are,,,,,I would have an complete coronary if something like that stepped out in front of my stand....and the bottom one looks an absolute picture perfect shot.... NICE TROPHIES... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] WOW !!! This topic has gone south... And SaskMan,,,Those are some great looking deer,,,man what brusers thise 2 are,,,,,I would have an complete coronary if something like that stepped out in front of my stand....and the bottom one looks an absolute picture perfect shot.... NICE TROPHIES... [/ QUOTE ] It sure has VH. Where's the love guys. I recognize the bottom buck from this past season Saskman but I don't recall seeing the top one before. Great bucks buddy. I'd love to hear the story behind the top buck. My PM works BTW, did you send in a B&C entry on either one (or both) of those bruisers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texastrophies Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? Hey, Saskman, you didn't actually use a GUN to kill those deer with did you? Talk about cheating. It should have been hand to hoof combat. lol Yes, I use corn, alfalfa and protien pellets, it is legal and benefits the heard. PS: I haven't taken a deer in the last 2 or 3 years, but it sure was nice seeing my son connect with a couple of young bucks that came in last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] Hey, Saskman, you didn't actually use a GUN to kill those deer with did you? Talk about cheating. It should have been hand to hoof combat. lol Yes, I use corn, alfalfa and protien pellets, it is legal and benefits the heard. PS: I haven't taken a deer in the last 2 or 3 years, but it sure was nice seeing my son connect with a couple of young bucks that came in last year. [/ QUOTE ] LOL....That's just way too good.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] Hey, Saskman, you didn't actually use a GUN to kill those deer with did you? Talk about cheating. It should have been hand to hoof combat. [/ QUOTE ] LOL...That's just way too good.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] WOW !!! This topic has gone south [/ QUOTE ] nothing wrong with a good friendly debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] WOW !!! This topic has gone south [/ QUOTE ] nothing wrong with a good friendly debate [/ QUOTE ] I agree whole heartedly Todd,,,,it just seemed to me it was getting a little too heated....JMO,,,but heck atleast this time I'm not the one right smack dab in the middle of it... Heck just wish me and Shawn luck on our attempt with the seed we got from Martin...If it comes out half as nice as your plots, we will have a winner.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] WOW !!! This topic has gone south [/ QUOTE ] nothing wrong with a good friendly debate [/ QUOTE ] I agree, nothing wrong with a friendly debate. However, let's leave out the non-sportsman comments. I mean I don't agree with baiting either but I would never say that it is not sportsman like. It's just something that I am not used to doing that's all. Who is anybody to judge how someone hunts as long as it is legal. BTW, those are some nice looking deer. Good job....I am jealous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhtr1 Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? I guess I will put my two cents in. There is nothing wrong with baiting deer. Those who think it is like hunting in a Zoo do not have a clue as to how deer adapt to there environment. If it is legal then go for it. CWD, BS, where do you have the most CWD? In states without baiting. You dont see much down here and baiting has been around forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? [ QUOTE ] CWD, BS, where do you have the most CWD? In states without baiting. You dont see much down here and baiting has been around forever. [/ QUOTE ] Now there's something, that never crossed my mind....and does has some certian truth to it... I did notice tho that in most of the posts,,,folks here used the term "PILES",,,,I have never used piles,,I try to keep the apples or carrots widely dispersed. Image if you would the radius of apples dropping off the apple tree. To me I think it made the game find it easier and gave me more than one shooting lane, if a deer happened to come along, but I used this meathod mainly to hold game on the property rather than draw them into an ambush..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: Why not feed the deer? This idea of salivary transmission of CWD if it is in fact true, would mean that it would be spread with or without food plots, baitpiles, or mineral licks in nature on its own. Deer lick and chew licking branches which hunters also create, they eat and lick trees on their own, and all lick and eat all sorts of natural occuring forage. The concept of mineral licks or food plots or baiting being some sort of magnet for CWD is way off base in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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