johnf Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] I almost became a Pentecostal preacher, but there are too many contradictions in the bible for me to be able to stand up in front of a group of people and tell them that everything in the bible is word for word true, not to mention that 5 Billion people coming from 2 is statistically impossible over 12,000 years, plus, isn't there something in the bible about incest being wrong, because if two people populated the world, that is some hardcore incest going on. [/ QUOTE ] If Adam and Eve had 4 children, Cain, Able and their wives and each subsiquent couple had 4 children then after 50 generations there would have been 2,251,799,813,685,248. If you figure a 30 year generation then that gives us 400 generations to grow to a number of 8,000,000,000. It is therefore easily possible to have many more than the 8 billion that we've got. I guess if you figured a really, really big infant mortality rate, that would have made sence. For someone who almost became a preacher, you don't know the bible very well. The reference to insest is in the book of Leviticus where Moses was giving the law. Befor this there was no law written down. Before that we have the case of Noah's daughters replentishing the Earth. God didn't tell them not to marry their cousins. So lets think science here and see why we shouldn't commit insest, other than it's just nasty. The problem with insest is that any chromizonal anomalies that are in a family will give the resulting child a multiple risk in having birth defects. If we assume that Adam and Eve were created then we must also asume that their bodies were gentetically perfect with no anomalies. If this is true then there would have been no genetic reason to not procreate within the family. Most people who believe the bible contradicts itself have either not read it, or have not read it enough to decern the meaning of changes in the text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? You seem like a very smart guy Sask, that wasn't a very good answer for a guy of your obvious intelligence. (not ment to be condisinding) The only evidence that I see of evolution is the fact that there are species that no longer live. But, there is not any counterpart that they left behind to call it evilution. I will give evilutionist this, survival of the fittest. The only real evolution to me is the fact that weaker species tend to go extinct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyderpancake Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? Slugshooter, did you have a real relationship with Christ, like I said in my claim? From your posts, I would say no. And please show me some of the "many contradictions" that you claim the Bible is full of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] Slugshooter, did you have a real relationship with Christ, like I said in my claim? From your posts, I would say no. And please show me some of the "many contradictions" that you claim the Bible is full of. [/ QUOTE ] You use my posts as proof that I didn't have a "real" relationship with Christ, I had a relationship that was very real, so I became disillusioned over the years, it happens to many. many people. Like I said, I used to believe word for word everything in the bible was true, I don't anymore, simple as that. But don't go questioning any relationships I had 10+ years ago when you don't know jack about me junior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] For someone who almost became a preacher, you don't know the bible very well. [/ QUOTE ] Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me for not knowing the exact place in the bible that incest is condemned, you know the book, but can you give me the chapter and verse without looking it up, I doubt it. Lets see, I also haven't read the bible back to back everyday of my life and haven't read a whole lot of it over the past 10+ years, so one tends to forget some things after awhile, heck, I can't hardly remember what I read last week. I feel that was a pretty ignorant statement there johnf, of course, you did say that Atheists don't contribute to society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] If Adam and Eve had 4 children, Cain, Able and their wives and each subsiquent couple had 4 children then after 50 generations there would have been 2,251,799,813,685,248. If you figure a 30 year generation then that gives us 400 generations to grow to a number of 8,000,000,000. It is therefore easily possible to have many more than the 8 billion that we've got. [/ QUOTE ] One would have to believe that Adam and Eve actually existed to believe in those figures you gave us, and since I believe the story of Adam and Eve was ancient mans way of explaining how he came to be in a world of which he knew only of where he lived and the few people he came in contact with. Whoever wrote Genesis was a victim of living in a sheltered world of which he only knew of his immediate area and his immediate people around him. He had no idea what was 500 miles away let alone on the other side of the world and other people who have lived. You are at peace believing what you believe, and I am at peace believing what I believe. Let's just end it at that. It took me a long time of believing just like you to get where I am at today, and I am completely happy and secure in my future. Because even though I am not a "churchboy" like I used to be, I am saved and believe in Jesus Christ and who he is, God gave me a mind to think, and thats exactly what I do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaskMan Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] You seem like a very smart guy Sask, that wasn't a very good answer for a guy of your obvious intelligence. (not ment to be condisinding) [/ QUOTE ] I won't be offended if you can give me reason why it is not a good answer other than a quote from the book you believe so much in. I gave and example of what I see as evolution you may see it as a stupid answer b/c you don't believe in it but from where I sit, it is very much logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? The United Nations World Population organization put the current world population growth at 1.7% per year (that's not including aborted babies). Under developed countries have an annual growth of 2.4%. If you begin with only 2 people (Adam and Eve) and figure in a population growth of 2% per year, the current world population would only take 4,000 years. Figure in famine, disease and war and 6,000 years is a realistic timeline - much more realistic that billions of years. If you calculate billions of years as the evolutionist argue, the world could not hold the amount of people. There is a reason why evolutionist never mention population growth. It doesn't fit their end result. Evolution only sounds credible because evolution advocates toss out any evidence that does not support their predetermined outcome. Evolution as a belief system only survives because people take everything at face value and refuse to look outside of evolutionary science. Anything that proves to contradict evolution is labeled as religious and cast aside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeWalker Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] So Jesus, please stop by. I'd like to talk......... [/ QUOTE ] Well Dg...that's a step in the right direction.....even as misguided as it may seem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeWalker Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? AS far as the Bible is concerned, yes I believe and hang on every word.......no matter who or how it get's twisted around, it's contents still speak to and apply to our every day lives........for you non-beleivers, if you would take half of the energy you spend trying to discredit the Bible, and apply it towards simply trying to understand God's meaning, we would all be in a better place.......... Speaking of discrediting......no bigger argument goes on than those between scientists, no matter what the subject......It's to bad many will waste there lives trying to prove their point and discredit their colleague's...........I'd rather rely on faith and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.....the energy it takes is renewable and the benifits attainable.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? Buckee, now you are spreading the nonsense from that website! The part i refer to is that they try to discredit evolution using calculations that say humans have existed for billions of years. Nobody claims that! Using such obviously flawed, and false statistics and arguments discredits any rational arguments you make on a subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? OK fisherguy..set me straight...How long has man been here ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyderpancake Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? slugshooter,how can you say you had a real relationship with Christ and you don't believe that he did anything that he said he did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] slugshooter,how can you say you had a real relationship with Christ and you don't believe that he did anything that he said he did? [/ QUOTE ] Think about it. It isn't that hard now is it. Like I have said many times , I used to believe absolutely, positively just like 90% of the others on here. You remind me a lot of myself when I was your age, 18 right? Full of righteousness, just knowing that what you believe is exactly right and everyone else is wrong. Guess what? I grew up and stopped believing I was right about everything and everyone else was wrong and started believing that what someone else believes is their business, not mine, and it wasn't my place to tell them any different. If I am wrong, God will set me straight, but I am happy with what I believe and I feel that God is directly responsible for what I believe. You obviously are happy with what you believe, more power to ya. But it should be quite obvious that when I had a strong relationship with Christ, I obviously believed exactly how you did. And don't mistake what I post as an absolute belief, when I make a post about religion, unless I say this is what I believe, it is more a question posed to other members and thoughts just to get people thinking. You can usually tell the difference by the ????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyderpancake Posted June 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? slugshooter, i would like to apologize for anything i have said that is offensive to you. i don't want to make you mad or insult you. I am just having a hard time understanding how anyone who had a relationship with Christ, who was led by Him and had fellowship with Him, and knew that He was real, could doubt that what is in the Bible is true. I guess like you said, you have your reasons. But I can tell you, if I didn't completely believe God and His Word, i couldn't and wouldn't believe Him at all. I wouldn't stake my eternity on someone I didn't trust. But that is me and you are entitled to whatever you want to believe, and I won't try to change you. By the way, anything I say in these posts is not to offend anyone, I just want to see how people think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You seem like a very smart guy Sask, that wasn't a very good answer for a guy of your obvious intelligence. (not ment to be condisinding) [/ QUOTE ] There is no evidence that evilution is sound science. There is not way to prove it unless you plan to live millions of years. I won't be offended if you can give me reason why it is not a good answer other than a quote from the book you believe so much in. I gave and example of what I see as evolution you may see it as a stupid answer b/c you don't believe in it but from where I sit, it is very much logical. [/ QUOTE ] My sister, who has a PHD in Animal Science and Micro biology, got into this discussion whith another prof. and the prof in question conceeded that there was no way that he could back up any claims to evilution. The fact is that stating similarities among groups of animals does not show a corrilation that can be tied to evilution. If you claimed that, then you must also say that different races of humans are higher up or lower down the ladder. I could just as easily argue that all of these similarities are part of God's great plan. A 28 day menstration cycle only makes sence. A woman who has a regular cycle could plan events based on the phases of the moon. Apes may have an apposible thumb because God wanted them to be able to more easily grab a banana or climb a tree. There was an animal that was built like a geraffe but with a shorter neck. They lived at the same time, but the shorter necked one died out. Maybe that's because the longer necked one ate all the food first. Btw there is no animal in between the 2. Just these two animals that lived in the same region at the same time. There is no evidence that the short neck one ever evolved, just that it died out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] There was an animal that was built like a geraffe but with a shorter neck. They lived at the same time, but the shorter necked one died out. Maybe that's because the longer necked one ate all the food first. [/ QUOTE ] And do we know what that is called? Survival of the fittest. And who is responsible for that discovery? Charles Darwin himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeWalker Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? I'm thinking God had a pretty good handle on it long before Darwin..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] For someone who almost became a preacher, you don't know the bible very well. [/ QUOTE ] Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me for not knowing the exact place in the bible that incest is condemned, you know the book, but can you give me the chapter and verse without looking it up, I doubt it. Lets see, I also haven't read the bible back to back everyday of my life and haven't read a whole lot of it over the past 10+ years, so one tends to forget some things after awhile, heck, I can't hardly remember what I read last week. I feel that was a pretty ignorant statement there johnf, of course, you did say that Atheists don't contribute to society. [/ QUOTE ] How is pointing out someones glaring theological mistake an ignorant statement. Were talking about a thousand year difference here. Try not to put words in my mout here sluggo, I never said athiest never did anything, I asked what they did. There is a difference. By the way, I don't remember anyone giving any specific examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There was an animal that was built like a geraffe but with a shorter neck. They lived at the same time, but the shorter necked one died out. Maybe that's because the longer necked one ate all the food first. [/ QUOTE ] And do we know what that is called? Survival of the fittest. And who is responsible for that discovery? Charles Darwin himself. [/ QUOTE ] Survival of the fittest is not evilution. Evilution is the myth that one animal gradually changes into another animal. BTW. Before Charls Darwin died he admitted that his theory of evilution has no scientific merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] How is pointing out someones glaring theological mistake an ignorant statement. Were talking about a thousand year difference here. [/ QUOTE ] How is not knowing exactly where incest is condemned a glaring theological mistake. All I said was wasn't there something in the bible condeming it. You kindly told me there was and said I didn't know the bible very well. That's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] Try not to put words in my mout here sluggo, I never said athiest never did anything, I asked what they did. There is a difference. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Aethiest are the first group to get on the "Kick the Christian while he's down" bandwagon. They put us down for any cidkup or misjudgment. Almost everytime when there is some religious zelot who goes anywhere on a t.v. drama and does anything wrong it's almost always a Christian man. I was just wandering when was the last time an aethiest organization started a major university, when they opened a soup kitchen, which aethiest started AA or did something good to help the world when it wasnt' a show of thier wealth or power or tax write of?. And just out of curriosity, how can someone who doesn't believe in God be offended by Him?. That's like me being offended by hearing about a unicorn. [/ QUOTE ] Is that not the same as suggesting that they don't contribute to society, the only thing you say they have done is "kick the Christian" when Christians do a dang fine job of doing it to their own. They don't need Atheists to drag them through the mud when a high profile preacher falls to temptation, every minister who the week before was quoting one of their sermons started preaching against the dangers of putting yourself in an elevated position, and how it wasn't "Christian." And that little play on letters highlighted in red, I was always told that if you changed the lettering of a bad word, it was just as bad because you knew what you were saying. Couldn't you have at least said foul up or something. I don't pay too much heed to words of supposedly "Christian" people when they use un-Christian words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Try not to put words in my mout here sluggo, I never said athiest never did anything, I asked what they did. There is a difference. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Aethiest are the first group to get on the "Kick the Christian while he's down" bandwagon. They put us down for any cidkup or misjudgment. Almost everytime when there is some religious zelot who goes anywhere on a t.v. drama and does anything wrong it's almost always a Christian man. I was just wandering when was the last time an aethiest organization started a major university, when they opened a soup kitchen, which aethiest started AA or did something good to help the world when it wasnt' a show of thier wealth or power or tax write of?. And just out of curriosity, how can someone who doesn't believe in God be offended by Him?. That's like me being offended by hearing about a unicorn. [/ QUOTE ] Is that not the same as suggesting that they don't contribute to society, the only thing you say they have done is "kick the Christian" when Christians do a dang fine job of doing it to their own. They don't need Atheists to drag them through the mud when a high profile preacher falls to temptation, every minister who the week before was quoting one of their sermons started preaching against the dangers of putting yourself in an elevated position, and how it wasn't "Christian." And that little play on letters highlighted in red, I was always told that if you changed the lettering of a bad word, it was just as bad because you knew what you were saying. Couldn't you have at least said foul up or something. I don't pay too much heed to words of supposedly "Christian" people when they use un-Christian words. [/ QUOTE ] Would asking you when the last time you took a leak be accusing you of not having a bladder? It's an honest question and I stand by it. By the way cidkup should have been hickup get your mind out of the gutter, that was a type-O. BTW what were you thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ritzer Posted June 26, 2005 Report Share Posted June 26, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] Why look for skeletons when the "missing links" are walking around with their opposable thumbs. [/ QUOTE ] i only have a few questions and statements to make. about this quote, um just explain to everybody on the board why humans magically stopped evolving from apes. why is there not an inbetween species from humans to apes? just wondering. and yes i do believe in god. and my question to everyone who doesnt on here is why not? i can see where your saying you dont believe hes real but lets take this for instance. if you start beliveing in god now, and he turns out to be false and made up. let me ask you, what did you lose by believing? is it too hard to believe? takes to much concentration? having to drag your sorry self out of bed on sunday instead of sleepng in gonna make you cry? i know by all means im not the best christian. ill admit to it. but you know what, im hoping when i dide, and i find that god is real, he can send me to heaven with the rest of my friends on here who believed. so yes i do believe in god and feel very sorry for the people who do not. i got to go. im compressing enough matter in my basement to make my own new universe. Its gonna be a BIG BANG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeramie Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Re: The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I believe that the Bible is the true, inspired Word of God. I believe that all accounts in the Bible are true and actually happened. I believe that Jesus died and rose from the grave. And to take the one step further, I believe that He is coming back one day. How do I know that all of this is true........I take it by faith! [/ QUOTE ] Well said my brother....well said.....See you on the other side! [/ QUOTE ] Amen, Praise god, and Ill see you there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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