PAbowhunter4life Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 There has been a lot of discussion as of late on questionable shots that some pros have been taking on hunting shows. Some are obviously horrible decisions and should be pointed out, but others, I am not so sure about. With enough KE and a good penetrating broadhead, I don't think these so called "questionable" shots are really that unethical. Here are my opinions: 1.) The Herald Knight Shot: He killed the deer, so apparently he did something right. Harold was obviously shooting enough KE to blow through that deer and we all know how much damage a big cutting Rocket broadhead can do. Judging from the angle of the shot, he shredded one lung and most likely the liver and part of the diaphragm as well, along with who knows how many arteries. The results speak for themselves. 2.) Head On Shots: Shooting at an animal straight on is a NO-NO, yet I have seen it done a few times on TV and have a few friends that have done it. In each instance the deer barely went 40 yards. Aiming at the base of the neck straight on, no matter how "narrow" the vitals are from that angle as some say is putting your arrow through the vitals, plain and simple, they are the only thing in the path of the arrow from that angle. Aside from that when aiming at the base of the neck you are more than likely going to hit the wind pipe as well. 3.) The Quartering Toward Shot: This is always a touchy subject, but again, I have my own opinion on this shot. Everyone lives for the classic quartering away shot. Aim behind the last rib, arrow exits out in front of the shoulder, dead deer. So tell me then, when a deer is quartering towards you, why is it a bad shot. It is the quartering away shot in reverse. Arrow will enter in front of the shoulder and exit behind the last rib and even if it doesn't pass thorugh, it's going to bury deep in to that deers vitals. Now, I am not saying for everyone to go out and attempt these shots, that is not my point by any means. However, the No-No shots were created at a time when bows traveled at a whopping 200 fps and their KE was barely enough to bury up to the flecthing in a deer, let alone pass through. As we all know, archery has come along way since then. With bows producing massive amounts of KE these days and broadheads that are designed to penetrate through brick of you need them too, I don't think the No-No shots are No-No's anymore. By matching his bow and arrow set up to the game he pursues an archer can truly take advantage of all of the latest technology and offer himself several other lethal shot angles as opposed to the 2 standards everyone lives by, thus increasing his chances for success. Will I take some flack for my beliefs, probably, but hey, that's what it's all about, opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitteken Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Re: Ethical Shots........... I'm not going to give you any flack. I just think these NO-NOs are things that need to be told to beginning hunters who do not have the skill and/or confidance. When I was younger anything over 20 yds and other than broadside was a no-no. But now I'm older shoot an arrow with some thump to it and am comfortable taking these no-nos. Not that I will every time but if the situation is right i will. With the quartering away vs towards... I think its about initialy what could go wrong. The away you are bypassing the rib cage and headed straight to the vitals. Towards you have a chance of losing energy by hitting bone and tough muscle first. Theoretically the result is the same because your still going from point A to B or B to A. But variables do occur. But with any shot problems can occur. A buck I shot a few years ago was a quartering away shot. But I caught one of the back ribs and it turned my arrow inside the deer. So instead of getting both lungs, I got one and the liver. It was still a dead deer though. I think everyone will say its all about what you think you're comfortable with. I think this is a good post because its a chance for hunters to think about what they are comfortable with and set some ethical guidelines for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Finn Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Re: Ethical Shots........... It will increase your chance to take a deer....of course, it will also increase your chance of wounding a deer. To me, it's not worth it. The quartering toward and head on shots should penetrate the shoulder...but if they don't because the deer moves or you were off a little, there's a good chance of wounding him. I know enough things can go wrong when hunting for me that I want to control everything else. To me, this includes taking the highest percentage shots. Let me know when those string leeches start working on the wife and how you applied them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Re: Ethical Shots........... [ QUOTE ] However, the No-No shots were created at a time when bows traveled at a whopping 200 fps and their KE was barely enough to bury up to the flecthing in a deer, let alone pass through. [/ QUOTE ] Being a traditional shooter I am here to tell you this is blistering speed fo a trad bow and it WILL blow threw deer and keep going. 140 fps will get simular results but only with a real heavy arrow like 550+ grains or more. (Some trad arrwos hoover around 600 to 700 grains believe it or not) As for the No-No shots. I agree. Vital hits are vital hits reguardless of which way the arrow enters and exits. The main reason for stating the shots you mentioned above as NO-NOs is that dang shoulder blade. That can take an arrow and deflect it in a way that your broadhead is not doing what its meant to do thus only wounding a deer not killing it instantly. It will die perhaps, but long and slow. From the rear angle you dont have the deflection possiblity as much, or if you do, its after the arrow has passed threw vitals not before. It all boils down to. "Can I put the arrow where I want it" in a real world hunting condition, not in your backyard. At 20 yards a frontal shot with a compound bow is like shooting at a soft ball size target at 20 yards. A chip shot for me when I shot compounds. Not so for a trad bow now... I think the broadside, double lung shot is just an all round safe kill shot and should be everyones goal. 1/4 away should be the 2nd. JMO I mean even if you miss the exact 1" spot you were wanting to hit by 6" on a broad side shot, your still gonna hit vitals. So margin of error plays a roll there too. Not so for that frontal shot or front 1/4 shot where your margin of possible error is nill to none. Deadly if you make them Yes, but IF is the key word. We all know how things can change by the second while bow hunting... For teaching new to advid bowhunters that these shots are No-Nos is the best thing to teach. Again JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAbowhunter4life Posted July 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Re: Ethical Shots........... I agree with you VT, and I by no means meant to offend you as a traditional bow shooter, so please do not take it that way. These shots are by no means for everyone and they are not for people with low KE levels or people using cheap broadheads. As for the children, yes, broadside and quartering away, but they should also be told that when they get good and are shooting enough KE that a few other shots will open up. Finn, I plan to try the new Super String Leeches today, so maybe they'll work, I'll keep you posted lol. At any rate, you make a valid point too about losing animals, but every year people lose animals from single lung hits on broadside or quartering shots, or shots that were too far back or low on the ideal shots. With shots like I suggested, pin point accuracy, highe KE levels and good sharp broadheads are the key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAbowhunter4life Posted July 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Re: Ethical Shots........... Thanks for the reply bud, you make some very valid points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Re: Ethical Shots........... No offence taken here. I hope my post did not sound like that... Its a funny thing to live in the compound world for so many years, living by the numbers, and certain must have products. Then going traditional and seeing everything I knew and loved as being not exactly right or needed at all. LOL My whole point was accuarcy kills more then speed does... Oh and closer is better then "how far can I shoot".. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Re: Ethical Shots........... I agree with PABH4L, how can someone that does not know my abilities, my equipment, or the circumstances, say if I made an ethical shot or not? Its not up to them, its up to me. There is a big difference between being confident the arrow will go where it needs to go and hoping the arrow goes where it needs to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAbowhunter4life Posted July 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Re: Ethical Shots........... Just to clear the air and let everyone know why I have these views. I am shooting a 406 grain Gold Tip XT hunter 7595 arrow tipped with a Slick Trick 100 broadhead @ 280 fps which equates to 70.69 lb. of KE. That is enough KE to blow through any animal I could ever wish to hunt in North America, and I could blow through 95% of African game as well. Not to toot my horn, but I have posted several of my shooting sessions on here and I consider myself to be an above average shot. The broadheads is lazer sharp, accurate as a field point and the toughest I have ever tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 Re: Ethical Shots........... "The main reason for stating the shots you mentioned above as NO-NOs is that dang shoulder blade. That can take an arrow and deflect it in a way that your broadhead is not doing what its meant to do thus only wounding a deer not killing it instantly." Great point there Shawn!!! Case in point is my last season: Doe @ 21 feet from the base of my tree Treestand at 20 feet high Weapon used 30-30 I hit the shoulder blade and somehow it deflected the bullet down the side of the animal...I never found that deer and I looked for 16 total hours! My point is this: If it can do that to a bullet traveling many,many, many times faster than any arrow...how much of a chance does 250 or so feet per second have? Personally I have taken a couple shots on deer that are not perfect Broadside targets. One was facing me directly straight on...killed it with an arrow dead center in the neck! The other one was just to the right of the neck into the heart @ 5 yards...deer dropped on the spot. My reality check is simple...If I'm absolutely sure that when I release an arrow that the deer will die...the string is twanging. The farther away the deer is the more Broadside I want that target...plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grunter Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 Re: Ethical Shots........... Nothing but broadside and quartering away shots here. Plus I try to keep the shot under 20 yds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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