browning_gold_12 Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 anyone tried the new savage smokeless powder ML? we hunt some places with pretty tight lanes, sure would be nice to see a direction of travel after the shot. would appreciate any info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popgun Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? You just mentioned the main reason that I bought a Savage 10MLII. I like to see after the shot without waiting for the smoke to clear. I only cleaned mine once last season which was after the season closed. I have been getting the best out of it using 42 grns.VV N110, or 43 grns. of IMR4759 behind a 250 grn. SST. I still have my Remington 700 stainless in-line, but probably will never go back to Pyrodex or Triple 7 again. Shooting smokeless has spoiled me for sure. Just remember to shoot smokeless powder "Only in a rifle designed for it". go to Doug's Message Board for all sorts of information on the Savage. http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi ....popgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? I have one. If its not the strongest, its definately in the top few strongest muzzleloaders made. Many purists whine about the Savage, saying its not a true muzzleloader. It will do anything any other muzzleloader will and a whole lot more. Be sure to check your states regulations concerning the use of smokeless powder in muzzleloader season. Some states are coming to their sences and realizing that its just another muzzleloader. Others still have their head in the sand and think it is evil. Oh well. other than that, its a great gun. I have the stainless with laminated wood stock. It will shoot decent groups 1"-1.5". You can load it as mild as you want or you can stoke it up (within reason and safety) as much as your shoulder will take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
too_pointer Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? I guess the days of calling them a smokepole are over for some Never for me LOL too_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? [ QUOTE ] I had thought about getting one till I found out that they are illegle to hunt with during the blackpowder seson here in arizona. [/ QUOTE ] Using smokeless is illegal, the Savage 10ML II is not illegal to use. You can still use Black Powder, or its replacements (Pyrodex, 777, AP, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browning_gold_12 Posted September 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? well, dad bought the savage, and i have a question. there was a package in the box that had 2 "percussion modules" in it. it said they needed to be replaced if you noticed soot forming on the tips, or if accuracy deterirorated. what is it and where is it???? i dont see it on the breakdown, and cant figure where it goes. any clues??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browning_gold_12 Posted September 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? nevermind, called savage, they told me the origional 10ml used them and the 10mlII doesnt. thanks anyway!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? Congrats on your new toy. You will like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RandyWakeman Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? Earlier this week, @ a laser verified 285 yards outside Laramie, WY. That's hunting buddy J.J. Smithey to my right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? O.K. ........Uninformed question from someone who doesn't hunt with a muzzleloader........... What is the purpose of hunting with a ML that kills at 285 yards, doesn't make smoke, has a scope and goes off even after it's been under water?? I thought muzzleloading was a sport that promoted the primitive challenge????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RandyWakeman Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? [ QUOTE ] O.K. ........Uninformed question from someone who doesn't hunt with a muzzleloader........... What is the purpose of hunting with a ML that kills at 285 yards, doesn't make smoke, has a scope and goes off even after it's been under water?? I thought muzzleloading was a sport that promoted the primitive challenge????? [/ QUOTE ] Why would anyone hunt with a shotgun that cycles faster than they can, holds more shells than legal, hides the recoil, and self loads? Wrong question. 1) There is no such thing as a pronghorn special muzzleloading season, primitive or otherwise, in Wyoming. 2) I don't hunt underwater. 3) If you hunt with a .45-70 that cannot be quickly reloaded alongside .300 WinMags and 7mm STW's-- you'll get the idea. Or, you can muzzleload. That's a loooong way for a heavy .45 caliber bullet. Not so long for a 7mm RemMag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? [ QUOTE ] 1) There is no such thing as a pronghorn special muzzleloading season, primitive or otherwise, in Wyoming. [/ QUOTE ] I admire you guys for going "primitive" alongside the guys in Wyoming with .300 Mags and 7-STW's. I really do. But what about the states that do allow ML hunters a season all to themselves........usually earlier than the general firearms season.........to practice their primitive art?? Wouldn't you feel a bit guilty using such a gun?? [ QUOTE ] 3) If you hunt with a .45-70 that cannot be quickly reloaded alongside .300 WinMags and 7mm STW's-- you'll get the idea. Or, you can muzzleload. [/ QUOTE ] Funny you should mention this. Because I do hunt with a 45/70..................an 1873 Springfield with open sights. In no way, shape or form is it a 285 yard deer (or antelope) gun. By all measures, it's an inferior big game rifle to the Savage Smokeless. Shouldn't I get a special season.......maybe before the ML season?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? What should the distance limit be? Fifty yards...100 yards...??? As for the sealing of the action or action type, what should the rules state? If inlines are too modern, side locks are not that far behind, how about matchlocks? Where do you draw the line? Optics allow more hunters to enjoy this facet of the sport. Those with aging eyes, or non optimal vision can use a scope to deliver a well placed kill shot on an animal easier than when using open sights. Personally I could not care less about "primitive hunting". Its my duty to make a clean, accurate fast killing shot on game. If I can find a tool to allows me to do that more often than not, I will use it as long as its legal. Your argument can also be said for archery. Why use compound bows, sights, mechanical broadheads, releases, aluminum or carbon arrows, plastic vanes, etc. Make it primitive, use long bow or recurve with cedar arrows, non replacable blade broadheads, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedicast Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? Strut..I shoot a Thompson Encore, Stainless, composite stock, scope,...etc... Is it a primitve weapon? Heck No! It will outshoot some centerfire rifles I own at 100 yards. Is it a muzzleloader..yes it is. Our muzzleloader season isn't an early season. Ours is after the gun season. Around the second or 3rd week of December. There is definately no advantage to that! I guess this post makes me a real hypocrite after my post on crossbows in the archery room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nut Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? [ QUOTE ] I guess this post makes me a real hypocrite after my post on crossbows in the archery room. [/ QUOTE ] Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I guess this post makes me a real hypocrite after my post on crossbows in the archery room. [/ QUOTE ] Yep [/ QUOTE ] LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedicast Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I guess this post makes me a real hypocrite after my post on crossbows in the archery room. [/ QUOTE ] Yep [/ QUOTE ] LOL [/ QUOTE ] That's ok...I've been called lots worse!!...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RandyWakeman Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? [ QUOTE ] Funny you should mention this. Because I do hunt with a 45/70..................an 1873 Springfield with open sights. In no way, shape or form is it a 285 yard deer (or antelope) gun. By all measures, it's an inferior big game rifle to the Savage Smokeless. Shouldn't I get a special season.......maybe before the ML season?? [/ QUOTE ] Center-fire single shots ARE allowed during the MS "Primitive Season" --- 35 cal. or larger. A H & R Handi-Rifle is quite legal, and a very hot seller this year. If you think the Savage 10ML-II is just "hold on hair" to 285 yards-- it sure isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? Good discussion going on here. I guess, though, what I'm really driving at............and AJ asked the question too.......is "where do you draw the line"?? Where is there enough difference in effectiveness to warrant opening a special season for a particular type of method?? It's just my opinion that anything beyond a patched roundball with open sights (and one could even argue flintlock over sidelock, but I won't) does not warrant any special privilege. You can't, in good faith, argue that an Encore with a 3x9 scope shooting saboted, polymer-tipped bulletsat 2000 fps in some way makes the hunt more challenging. I will argue that modern archery gear does not increase the effective range of lethality significantly over traditional gear .........definitely not by a factor of 3 (or more), as do modern muzzleloaders over period, primitive guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedicast Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? [ QUOTE ] You can't, in good faith, argue that an Encore with a 3x9 scope shooting saboted, polymer-tipped bulletsat 2000 fps in some way makes the hunt more challenging. [/ QUOTE ] Strut..I'm not arguing it at all. I don't hunt with the Encore in muzzleloader set up to hunt with a primitve weapon. I hunt with it because the state of Connecticut has designated a 10 day ml'er season, and it gives me more time to do what I love most...deer hunting. I have no interest at all in hunting with a "primitive" weapon. If CT outlawed inlines, chances are I would pass on the ml'er season. [ QUOTE ] I will argue that modern archery gear does not increase the effective range of lethality significantly over traditional gear .........definitely not by a factor of 3 (or more), as do modern muzzleloaders over period, primitive guns. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with you that modern archery equiptment doesn't increase the effective range threefold over traditional gear. But, I will argue the the learning curve to be proficient with your bow is reduced at least threefold, if not much more, with modern equiptment, as compared to traditional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? [ QUOTE ] Strut..I'm not arguing it at all. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah....I know. I used the word "argue" in the context of "defending one's point"........not in the context of "is too.....is not........is too..........is not". [ QUOTE ] I agree with you that modern archery equiptment doesn't increase the effective range threefold over traditional gear. But, I will argue the the learning curve to be proficient with your bow is reduced at least threefold, if not much more, with modern equiptment, as compared to traditional. [/ QUOTE ] You are right in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RandyWakeman Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? [ QUOTE ] Good discussion going on here. I guess, though, what I'm really driving at............and AJ asked the question too.......is "where do you draw the line"?? [/ QUOTE ] Who gets to draw the line, and why? There is no special early frontloader season of privilege in IL-- just general firearms seaons for the first two, semi-auto slug gun, 460 S & W revolver, or frontloader. Not much lives on the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? [ QUOTE ] Who gets to draw the line, and why? [/ QUOTE ] Ill tell you a story here.Theres a little old man that lives about 12 miles east of here.Been into muzzleloaders his whole life.Him and some other guys used to make them in a little garage over there and they supposedly turned out some really nice ones. He was also one of the original few guys that pushed to have ml season opened here many many years ago.I had the pleasure of meeting him this spring when he sold me some powder for my flintlock from his own supply.When they lobbied to have a primitive firearms season passed thats what they had in mind, primitive firearms.They went through all the work and legislation to get the season started and now he really regrets not getting the wording of the law right at the begining to keep it primitive, course back then they had no way to know in lines and smokeless ML were coming. The guy really has nothing against inlines or smokeless, as long as they are used in the regular gun season.Id vote to let him and the guys that originally got these seasons started in the first place to decide, cuz were getting a long ways from the original intent of them in a lotta cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? This has really taken off on a tangent from just Savage guns. Personally, I think its better for hunting that the seasons are not labled "Primitive". Let the rules allow modern versions and let more and more people expand their hunting methods. Where I grew up (PA), I had no desire to ML hunt. Flintlocks and roundballs do not interest me at all. Once I moved to a state that has their head out of the sand, I bought muzzleloaders and hunted with them. If 10% of the hunters that start this way get the primitive bug the pro-primitive group wins. Why should they be whining? Gun makers that make modern muzzleloaders create new jobs, increase thamount of money hunters are spending, overall helping the economy. People get out in the woods more as they now have an extra season to hunt. Maybe they will take a fancy to muzzleloading and hunt even more because of it. Any way you lok at it, its good for hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hangunnr Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Re: savage smokeless? Wow 285yds... .....and you were aiming for the base of the neck? hangunnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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