Guest RJK Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 My brother teaches bow hunter safety and wants to give the kids (12-14 yrs old) he teaches an easy way to find out if the arrows shot from their set-up will have enough penetration to kill a deer. He is not looking for anything real technical just something simple and fun he can show the kids and they could do themselves without having taken algebra, physics, and geometry. For example let's say Billy can get good groups at 25yrds but wants to make sure he has enough KE (kinetic energy) to kill a deer without doing the math and using the scales. If Billy shoots a 10lb watermelon from 25yrds and gets a pass through then Billy can be confident knowing his set-up can kill a deer. Has anyone heard of test like this where you can tell someone if they are able to get result X using test Y, their set-up can kill deer provided the get good shot placement? Some tests I am thinking of but do not know these to be true are: -At 25yrds if your arrow penetrates 8 inches into a block target or if you can penetrate 6 inches in a solid foam target or the arrow passes through a 12lb pumpkins Thanks for the help, remember nothing technical just something simple and fun, like a cool science experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Re: Simple arrow penetration test. So your asking us to solve the age old penitration debate with a simple target medium. hmmm. No idea. LOL However its been said and written that 25 KE should be a minimum for deer sized animals. Although I have seen guys shoot arrow clean threw deer with 45# recurves and heavy arrows. KE way less then 25. BTW its MO (momentum) that give ya penitration. KE is energy related. Like a tuning fork has tremendous KE but would not penitrate a deer very well. LOL It should be explained that an arrow will kill a deer cleanly without pass threw as long as its a well placed shoot in the lungs or heart. Its does not take a whole lot to achieve arrow penitration into the lung cavity. I understand what your asking but I am not sure there is one cover all material or target that will give a good answer to this... I may be wrong, its happened before... Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY_Bowhunter14 Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Re: Simple arrow penetration test. 35 lb. draw back minimum in NY... which I believe is too low, it needs to be around 45 lb. draw back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Re: Simple arrow penetration test. I thought about this more after I replied and you could do a simple test. Take what ever your states minumum required gear is, min. bow ewight, arrow weight, broadhead cutting diameter, etc. and do a test of your own on a popular target like the block as you mentioned. Shoot several rounds of arrows into it a record the depth of penitration on each arrow. After a series of rounds you should start seeing a certain measurement appear over and over. Or close anyways. Use that measurement as your states minimum required gear preformance on this brand target and go with that. If the kids have higher poundage and arrow weight then they should be ok without a shot taken. If they are close then at your friends class he could have the kids shoot into the target and do the measurements of say 3 arrows. Deeper would be better and not as deep not enough. Not exactly simple but should work like you need it to. Its all relateive still on shot placement though.... JMO OR just have them shoot threw a chrono and do the math. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Re: Simple arrow penetration test. [ QUOTE ] 35 lb. draw back minimum in NY... which I believe is too low, it needs to be around 45 lb. draw back... [/ QUOTE ] longbow, soft cam, or hard cam? light, medium, or heavy arrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAbowhunter4life Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Re: Simple arrow penetration test. Well, I sat here thinking and cane up with something way of the wall lol. The pumpkin and watermelon tests are good ideas, but I don't think it truly represents penetration of a deer. Here is what I have come up with, don't laugh lol. Ingredients: Piece of leather Jello Plastic bag Wooden box Construct a small wooden box, made of very soft wood such as balsa or something similar. Wrap the box in the leather but leave the top open. Then make enough jello to fill the box and seal it in the plastic bag, then place the bag in the box. Make the box the size of the deers vitals to give the kids an idea of the actual kill zone, heck, jello's cheap lol. At any rate, I would think the leather represents the deers hide pretty well. The thin wooden box would be a good representative of a deers rib cage, and the jello inside would be very similar to the blood, fluid and organs inside the deer. Did I got too far off the wall? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RJK Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Re: Simple arrow penetration test. The following two articles would suggest that KE plays a bigger more important role in arrow penetration, but momentum does play a part. Arrow penetration Arrow Pentration article II Not to start a pissing match just wanted to share some of the information I found. PAbowhunter thanks for the idea, pretty creative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdvantageTimberLou Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Re: Simple arrow penetration test. Thanks for sharing RJK!! Awesome articles!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Re: Simple arrow penetration test. [ QUOTE ] The following two articles would suggest that KE plays a bigger more important role in arrow penetration, but momentum does play a part. Arrow penetration Arrow Pentration article II Not to start a pissing match just wanted to share some of the information I found. PAbowhunter thanks for the idea, pretty creative. [/ QUOTE ] This is not exact correct... KE is nothing more then stored engery and is a term that describes many forms of that energy. Like my tuning fork example. Although it plays a role in penitraion, its not the key factor. I did tests on several different weight arrows off the same bow, thru a chrono, and found that reguardless of what speed the arrow went or weight of it, the KE stayed relatively the same. At the same time with the same numbers recorded and even though speed dropped as arrow weight increased, the MO also increased... Please read this... http://www.tradgang.com/ashby/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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