LifeNRA Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Just got this in an email! Very good read! This was written Major General Vernon Chong, USAF Ret. It's a bit lengthy but definitely well thought out and well expressed-worth the read..... https://ssl.capwiz.com/usatoday/bio/userletter/?id=487&letter_id=442131006&content_dir=y MG Vernon Chong, USAF ret This WAR is for REAL To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII). The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means. First, let's examine a few basics: 1. When did the threat to us start? Many will say September 11th, 2001. The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us: * Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979; * Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983; * Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983; * Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988; * First New York World Trade Center attack 1993; * Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996; * Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998; * Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998; * Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000; * New York World Trade Center 2001; * Pentagon 2001. (Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide). 2. Why were we attacked? Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter. 3. Who were the attackers? In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims. 4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%. 5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful? Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (see http://www.Nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm). Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others. Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die? 6. So who are we at war with? There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting. So with that background, now to the two major questions: 1. Can we lose this war? 2. What does losing really mean? If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions. We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean? It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get. What losing really means is: We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were neutered and submissive to them. We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent and cannot help them. They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished. The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast! If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else? The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost. Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win. So, how can we lose the war? Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win! Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation. President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently. And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then. Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him? No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head. Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause. Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein. And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq. And still more recently, the same type enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held. Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them. Can this be for real? The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can. To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years. Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into all non-Muslims -- not just in the United States, but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense. We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world! We can't! If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the World will survive if we are defeated. And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world. This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read. If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar? Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece. And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power. They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses.Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"? I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it. After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world. Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world! Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our "leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too. There are those that find fault with our country, but it is obvious to anyone who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Re: MG Vernon Chong, USAF ret., This WAR is for REAL! Good stuff right there that we should all take to heart. Unfortunately, I fear that most won't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdickey Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Re: MG Vernon Chong, USAF ret., This WAR is for REAL! That was a good read! I'd like to see Genral Chong and General Wesley Clarke get together... that would be a war for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: MG Vernon Chong, USAF ret., This WAR is for REAL! There are some good points in that essay. My problem is that he seems to be advocating the extermination of an entire religion, because, as he says, there are obviously no "peaceful Muslims" which just isn't true. There are plenty of Muslims who spoke out against the 9/11 attacks as well as any other act of terrorism. Also, I don't think the situation is as dire as he or many others believe it is. He claims the world is 25% Muslim, well, that would make what, 50-60 Billion Muslims, now, if all Muslims were militant and radical, then, I could see a possible problem, but the militant Muslims are in the minority, also, these terroristsn while armed, are not equppied with high tech equipment like civilized nations, now, if they do become equipped like we are then there is a problem. I agree that terrorism needs to be battled, but I do believe it will be a never ending war, with no clear winner or loser, because in order to completely wipe out terrorism, one would have to wipe out a whole religion, when you kill a father, the son is there to take his place, and the next one, and the next one. The "War on Terrorism" will never end in this world, because there will always be someone who will try to force their will with violence. I did have another though while I was reading this essay. Terrorists have been carrying out bombings for years, whether hijacking planes, blowing up buses and markets, like the essay said also, against Americans since the 1970's, why was the fervor to combat terrorism not evident then like it is now, why did it take 9/11 to cause us to take the fight to their country. Was it because that even though Americans died in these other attacks, did we just not care because they didn't happen on "our soil?" When did we all of a sudden care what happens in a country that is 99% sand with people who would gladly kill each other off? Is it because of what is in the ground over there? I agree that having to deal with a country that has a ruler we disapprove of is less than desirable, but when did we get to dictate who runs what country when weare supposed to be this great bastion of democracy, but don't have a problem replacing one ruler with another when the former isn't doing what is in our best interests. Noriega comes to mind in this scenario. Saddam Hussein received the key to the City of Detroit, Rumsfeld sold him weapons when he was at war with Iran, heck, I still will never understand why when he told the Bush Admin he was going to invade Kuwait they said they didn't care what goes on over there, then before we know it we are liberating Kuwait and Saddam Hussein is number 1 on our hit list. I believe if we weren't so dependent on foreign oil, we wouldn't have gone to Iraq in '91. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: MG Vernon Chong, USAF ret., This WAR is for REAL! [ QUOTE ] dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian) [/ QUOTE ] Hitler was no Christian. Maybe he called himself one, but that doesn't make a Cristian. Hitler was into all kinds of things. If anything he was a demented Spiritualist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted August 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: MG Vernon Chong, USAF ret., This WAR is for REAL! [ QUOTE ] My problem is that he seems to be advocating the extermination of an entire religion [/ QUOTE ] And by killing all the INFIDELLS, would that be US!?!?! I dont care who this guy is. But I am quite sure he has more info than you about the number of muslims. My personal feelings are this, deep down inside everyone of them they resent us! Almost to the point where they would rather see us dead! Yeah they came over to our SOIL! So now we are ON THERE SOIL! TURN IT INTO A GLASS TUBE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: MG Vernon Chong, USAF ret., This WAR is for REAL! [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] My problem is that he seems to be advocating the extermination of an entire religion [/ QUOTE ] And by killing all the INFIDELLS, would that be US!?!?! I dont care who this guy is. But I am quite sure he has more info than you about the number of muslims. My personal feelings are this, deep down inside everyone of them they resent us! Almost to the point where they would rather see us dead! Yeah they came over to our SOIL! So now we are ON THERE SOIL! TURN IT INTO A GLASS TUBE!!! [/ QUOTE ] I still am at awe at why I still post anything in this room to any thread because of responses like this. Maybe he does have more info on Muslims than I do because he is a retired Air Force Major General, or maybe he looked it up on the internet like everybody else has to. Any figures that anyone comes up with are estimates anyway. Maybe 50% of the world is Muslim, maybe 90%, who cares, because if they all felt and believed the way the radical Muslims do, we would be having a lot more problems than we do right now. You seem to have some anger and trust issues there John. Hatred breeds hatred, in any society. Do you try and understand people that are different than you, or do you just hate them all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted August 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: MG Vernon Chong, USAF ret., This WAR is for REAL! [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] My problem is that he seems to be advocating the extermination of an entire religion [/ QUOTE ] And by killing all the INFIDELLS, would that be US!?!?! I dont care who this guy is. But I am quite sure he has more info than you about the number of muslims. My personal feelings are this, deep down inside everyone of them they resent us! Almost to the point where they would rather see us dead! Yeah they came over to our SOIL! So now we are ON THERE SOIL! TURN IT INTO A GLASS TUBE!!! [/ QUOTE ] I still am at awe at why I still post anything in this room to any thread because of responses like this. Maybe he does have more info on Muslims than I do because he is a retired Air Force Major General, or maybe he looked it up on the internet like everybody else has to. Any figures that anyone comes up with are estimates anyway. Maybe 50% of the world is Muslim, maybe 90%, who cares, because if they all felt and believed the way the radical Muslims do, we would be having a lot more problems than we do right now. You seem to have some anger and trust issues there John. Hatred breeds hatred, in any society. Do you try and understand people that are different than you, or do you just hate them all? [/ QUOTE ] I am not the one that came over here and KILLED 3000 INOCENT PEOPLE! THEY STARTED IT NOW WE MUST FINISH IT! Yeah, I hate this war too Slug! But we just cant back down to these people. I want to see this end so we all can live in peace. But when you have the likes of this running around in the world, and all they want to do is KILL YOU AND ME! Then I say strike first and get it over so PEACE can resume! BTW, you have no idea what I am like, stop trying to change the subject and put anything against me! I spent 10 years caring for my fellow humans running a local ambulance. ALL NATIONALLITIES!!! It never stop me from trying to save a life! So dont even try to know me because you dont! If it werent for all your liberal friends trying to be so darn politically correct most of this would have never happened in the first place! I am not blamming you slug. But enough is enough! Lets take care of business and get out! We can not continue to live with these people trying to kill us. Just like Japan, two bombs dropped. War is over! I am not saying to use Nukes! But we just cant be policing like we are now! All this for the sake of OIL! Then thats another topic on why we let the world run us around like ragdolls! OPEC knows they can shut us down very fast. But they are affraid what might happen if they do! So they play the game of cat and mouse! They just push us a little bit each time, just to see how far they can get away with it! Just like the Liberals cry about not drilling for oil in Alaska and elsewhere. I say DRILL!!!!!!!!! Get the oil, stop screwing around. But nooooooooooooo, the liberals and democrats dont want to go there! Meanwhile they all give themselves a FAT RAISE. Like they did here in PA! I havent seen a raise in THREE YEARS. Now I have to pay $2.59 a gallon because your friends dont want to drill for the oil we been sitting on for 200+ years! My take on this letter is, he knew that all this was going down. Our government knew this too, but all the political red tape and our own people just ignored it. Well it reared its head and now we must CUT it OFF!!! When you try to kill a weed you just dont go for the leaves, got to get the root! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: MG Vernon Chong, USAF ret., This WAR is for REAL! [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] My problem is that he seems to be advocating the extermination of an entire religion [/ QUOTE ] And by killing all the INFIDELLS, would that be US!?!?! I dont care who this guy is. But I am quite sure he has more info than you about the number of muslims. My personal feelings are this, deep down inside everyone of them they resent us! Almost to the point where they would rather see us dead! Yeah they came over to our SOIL! So now we are ON THERE SOIL! TURN IT INTO A GLASS TUBE!!! [/ QUOTE ] I still am at awe at why I still post anything in this room to any thread because of responses like this. Maybe he does have more info on Muslims than I do because he is a retired Air Force Major General, or maybe he looked it up on the internet like everybody else has to. Any figures that anyone comes up with are estimates anyway. Maybe 50% of the world is Muslim, maybe 90%, who cares, because if they all felt and believed the way the radical Muslims do, we would be having a lot more problems than we do right now. You seem to have some anger and trust issues there John. Hatred breeds hatred, in any society. Do you try and understand people that are different than you, or do you just hate them all? [/ QUOTE ] I am not the one that came over here and KILLED 3000 INOCENT PEOPLE! THEY STARTED IT NOW WE MUST FINISH IT! BTW, you have no idea what I am like, stop trying to change the subject and put anything against me! I spent 10 years caring for my fellow humans running a local ambulance. ALL NATIONALLITIES!!! It never stop me from trying to save a life! So dont even try to know me because you dont! If it werent for all your liberal friends trying to be so darn politically correct most of this would have never happened in the first place! I am not blamming you slug. But enough is enough! [/ QUOTE ] Seems like I touched a nerve. First, radical Muslims terrorists, most of which were from Saudi Arabia flew the planes on 9/11, not the so called "non-innocent" Muslims who are a victim of their own religion. The later words are eerily similar to mine, about not knowing someone. It sucks doesn't it. When someone assumes they know so much about you just by what you type. I don't have any liberal friends, believe it or not, because I don't hang out with liberals, the only liberals I know are some of my college professors, but I don't hang out with them. In fact, if I probably knew all that they believed in, I'd probably look down on them as much as you do, maybe, maybe not. According to the General though, it wasn't anybodies fault, liberal, conservative, republican, democrat. It would have happened eventually, probably, maybe. Maybe if we lived in a police state where everyone was scrutinized, Oklahoma City would never have happened, or the Olympic Park in Atlanta, or the Anthrax attacks. But who wants to live like that. Things happen, the fortunate and the unfortunate, there is a reason that all things happen, for better or for worse so to speak. If it is meant to happen, it will, and for some reason 9/11 was meant to happen, albeit for some reason known only to a higher power that neither you nor I can comprehend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted August 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Re: MG Vernon Chong, USAF ret., This WAR is for REAL! [ QUOTE ] Seems like I touched a nerve. [/ QUOTE ] Naaaaaaaaaaa, just a lack of sleep! But come on! It was somebodies fault for not keeping an eye on this matter! Its just more Liberals and Democrats have this attitude about them as far as getting things like this done! They always go too far to the left, always! Calling for no war. But who really wants to go to war? Nobody, but when it has to be done you can count that the liberals and dems will not be there! Drilling for the oil that we are sitting on in Alaska! Nope! They dont want to do that either! Clinton had the chance to take out Bin Laden, nope, he didnt want to it! Look at the people in prison for LIFE! Most of them are big time murders. But our bleeding hearts of liberals and democrats will not pass any DEATH pentilty laws. Thats a big one that sticks in my backside! Most criminals think, oh well if I get caught it will be three squares a day, and a place to sleep! They dont care! Sure they dont want to go in, but they still go out and kill! Now mind you if every state had a death pentilty, you can BET! The numbers of murderers would drop! But the criminals all know that maybe they will get off! Funny, almost every Republican has no problems with HUNTING and owning GUNS! But yet, there are TONS of liberals and democrats that want to take our Hunting and gun rights away from us. You need to wake up! So you tell me? When will it end??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Re: MG Vernon Chong, USAF ret., This WAR is for REAL! [ QUOTE ] So you tell me? When will it end??? [/ QUOTE ] What? Terrorism or partisan bickering? If you think about it, terrorism has been around in some way shape or form for hundreds if not thousands of years, so I don't think there will ever be an end to terrorism. As far as partisan bickering, well, thats been around since the first time they decided to hold an election for somebody, I don't see that one going away either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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