horst Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Whats your guys take on the response time to aiding the hurricane victims?Just to clarify it this ost isnt about idiots who stayed there, looters, people shooting each other or any of the other issues going on. Honestly when I first started hearing the news channels complaining about the lack of response I thought thats just what it was, the media blowing things outta proprtion to make Bush look bad.But really, were supposed to be one of the most advanced countries in the world and we cant get a truckload of water into a convention center in 4 days?Theres people in hospitals, elderly, and young children stuck down there without water, food, formula, or even diapers. The police and national gaurd units down there let criminals get so far outta hand that they took over the city further hampering rescue efforts.Theyve got thousands of people yet to save and havent even started trying account for the dead.Even in the sunamis they had a estimated death toll within a few days.Im really starting to wonder how this can be gong in in this country in this day and age.Im not blaming Bush, Im not blaming the federal government, but I do think something got terribly off track in this rescue attempt.Keeping your political parties out of it as much as you can, what exactly do you think happened that we cant even get a truckload of water in much less get the survivors out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popgun Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Re: Just curious? I think there was definitely a breakdown at the highest levels of Emergency Management. Entergy, (Power and Light Co.) had trucks lined up and on the road while Katrina was on the way into the Gulf. Many of their trucks were waiting in Jackson MS until given the word to move in. I think the National Guard of non-affected states should have been on standby, and maybe even been deployed the same way. Same for the Coast Guard and some of the other emergency organizations that are now responding. It could have cost a few million dollars if they had been deployed and Katrina had simply faded away but a million dollars prevention is worth billions of dollars of cure, and thousands of lives lost. One of the worst tragedies in this whole mess is the loss of lives after the initial hurricane and flooding. Way too many are loosing their fight to live in the "aftermath" of this tragedy. When the evacuation order was being announced, thousands of busses, ambulances, and helicopters should have been on their way to pick up "All" the evacuees. When an evacuation order is issued everyone should be removed, by force if necessary, reducing the chances of having the criminal element mixing with the desperate evacuees. Emergency Management simply dropped the ball from the mayors to the governors and up the ladder. Water may flow down hill, but in this case, the responsibility should have flowed uphill....and fast (before communications were cut off). ....popgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Re: Just curious? I think that the media has blown this far out of proportion. Think back about four years ago, I had the TV on at work and a plane hit the trade center and then another. Ten days later I am stationed on an island 14,000 miles away and 26 days after 9/11 the US finally started the attacks on the terrorist. I say this as an example of the time involved in a major contengency which is what we have now. We are less than a week in to the after math of a Cat 5 huricane and logistics have already started to flow and thousands have been saved from certain death. It may seem like it has taken an eternity but the logistical nightmare of 1000's of people needing help is beyond what normal planning has been set up for. Looting has taken place because the main effort has been to rescue folks that have been trapped in their homes or place of employment. And now we have to take people out of the rescue and relief effort to stop the looting that is being done by the very people that are needing help. I will say that if they are looting food and survival items then I can not blame them but 20 pairs of Nike's and a color TV is not nessary for their survival at the moment. Then you have the people that are shooting at the folks that are trying help and are doing nothing but hindering/stopping the process. Plus you have the fact that 90% of these folks had the chance to get out of town and decided that they were going to ride it out. I am positive that even with my family of five (the youngest is 2) I could get far enough away from harm in a couple of days even by walking. Sometimes stupid hurts and the government is not to blame. There are a lot of people that need help and reguardless of being stupid or just in the wrong place at the wrong time we will help them and get them back on their feet. We will rebuild a city that has a long history and this storm will be another chapter in it's history. But it will take time and effort from us as citizens and or elected government. Support it and be part of the team. Elwood Just thought I would stop in a throw 2 cents in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Re: Just curious? We discussed this in English class a little today. The response time was slow, I also heard some news reports that funding for flood prevention in areas like New Orleans has been cut under the current administration, but that also the levee's weren't strong enough to contain the amount of water that flooded into the city. You can either call it poor planning, or you can call it planning for the present so to speak. The SuperDome was built to withstand a certain wind force, Katrina exceeded it, thus the roof being shorn off partially, the levees were built with a specific amount of water in mind, Katrina exceeded. Hindsight is 20/20. If we built our roads, bridges, buildings etc. for what "might" happen, well, we'd all be living in steel reinforced concrete buildings with no windows with a foundation that moves with the earth in case of earthquakes. The response time was slow, no doubt about it, but I think, IMO, that the response time was slow because no one expected this to become the major catastrophe that it has, and no one certainly didn't expect for the complete debasement of society that has occured with police officers joining in on the looting and armed thugs shooting at rescue helicopters. Another issue that I think worth mentioning, and I brought this up in the English class discussion, is who else is seeing the slow response time and how much this catastrophe has disrupted the live of Louisianians and the rest of the country. The terrorists. My English professor said that the terrorists now know that the possibility of causing a major disruption of our lives is possible, think of the chaos that would ensue if our gas and oil pipelines were strategically targeted. One final note, I don't mean this to be morbid, but I was thinking today on something I heard, FEMA says that it will be AT LEAST 36 days before all the water has been pumped out and possibly as much as 80 days. Could you imagine the utter chaos should a repeat of last year happen, but instead of Florida getting hit with 4 hurricanes, it was Louisiana or New Orleans instead. I shudder to think of what New Orleans would become, what with the damage, chaos, looting, and murder going on there now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted September 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Re: Just curious? I gotta admitt, I started posting this once this morning and changed my mind because I was afraid it would get ugly.But Im really just shocked this is happening. A minute ago they had footage of hospital personal at a private hospital being airlifted to safety.Charity Hospital across the road has over 200 patients in it still and no helicopters came there.A lotta these patients need ventilators, dialisis, and things that require power, which the hospital doesnt have.why were the healthy personal across the road flown out first. Its just a lotta little things like that showing up that keep me shaking my head in disbelief.You cant even blame the people shooting at them for it, this rescues gotta be the most screwed up deal Ive ever seen.Theres thousands of people still in the Convention center and the Super Dome, they know they are there and cant get em all out.Thats not counting the people still barricaded in thier homesthey dont even know about. Ill agree 100% these people shoulda been forcefully evacuated.But then what?Theyve still lost everything, theyre talking at least 80 days to ust pump the water outtta the city.The astrodomes full and turning buses away.There were no shelters or anything set up beforehand that Ive heard of.I can honestly say Ive seen our government handle disasters in 3rd world countries better then theyve handled this one.Its crazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Re: Just curious? I'm shocked too horst. We practice airdrops all the time and I KNOW we could have MRE's and water dropped in ASAP. The bottom line is: if the newsman can get there, the guard can too. Just remember that the guy doing the work just does what he's told.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Re: Just curious? Really have to agree with what Elwood says here, and even agree with some of what sluggo says. No one could have predetermined the magnitude of this storm, however speculations have been made for years that this would happen eventually in New Orleans if a big enough storm hit. It finally did. They knew the levees would not hold before it hit, that was a concern, How do you fix something like that at the last minute, you cannot. The only alternative was a mandatory evacuation, which took place, however unfortunately many people did not leave as they were warned to do. Understandably some couldnt, but others just didnt. The idea of bussing out people prior to the hurrican hitting is great, but how can you get those people out when the interstates are crammed with all traffic and lanes opened in only one direction heading out. Now they want to play the blame game. As I said in another post before I read this one, the negative attention the media is drawing to this is just creating more tension and further seperating this country. I heard a poke on the news last ngith making reference to race as an issue, claiming that if the majority of the people in New Orleans that were currently there were not black that the response would have been faster. Crap like that spread by the media will further cause more seperation and break down in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nut Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Re: Just curious? I have stayed away from any response because someone would say I am blaming someone(rollingeyes here). The responce has seemed very slow and not coordinated to me. It shames all Americans that we was not quick to the rescue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted September 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Re: Just curious? [ QUOTE ] Just remember that the guy doing the work just does what he's told.................... [/ QUOTE ] I think the guys on the ground there are doing what they can with what they have to work with.When I posted this I was actually kinda hoping there was a real reason someone may have given that I missed for the confusion down there.Maybe something like all the national gaurd units were busy in iraq or something, im not to hard to please [ QUOTE ] Now they want to play the blame game. As I said in another post before I read this one, the negative attention the media is drawing to this is just creating more tension and further seperating this country. I heard a poke on the news last ngith making reference to race as an issue, claiming that if the majority of the people in New Orleans that were currently there were not black that the response would have been faster. Crap like that spread by the media will further cause more seperation and break down in this country. [/ QUOTE ] The medias mainly responsible for a lotta things in this situation Im afraid.Theyve showed nothing but Black families, black looters, interviewed black moms holding small babies.It was fairly obvious early on the race issue was gonna come up as a result.Nobody in the country seems aware of the fact that there was a very large population of blacks down there to start with and thats why that what they are seeing now.I watched this stuff for a couple hours last night and found exactly 1 report that said the race issue was a crock, the rest of the stations are all playing it up to the fullest.I can honestly say in the last two days ive seen some of the most biased reporting Ive ever seen. They arent innocent either, one reporter was talking about how they were imbedded with the swift boat rescuers 2 days ago and they found a nieghborhood with somewhere near 500 people in it.Some were sick and injured and needed hualed out immediately. The whole time he was talking they kept blaming the governments slow response.But what were they doing in the rescue boats to start with?Hauling the media along only takes up 4 or 5 seats that could be used for hauling people out in the boats. Its like watching a Discovery nature documentary with these guys.They know where theres large groups left without food or water but they just keep reporting and dont get involved in it personally.When they do interview someone they twist the discussion to somehow get the people to voice thier hate of the government. The mayor of New Orleans seems to be the most vocal, but he was supposed to be the one running the city, wtih no disaster plan in place and no recent upgrades on those levees i wish he would just shut up, hes as much if not more to blame than anyone here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdickey Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Re: Just curious? When 90,000 square miles is totally destroyed... where do you start the rescue effort first? When all roads are virtually impassable for two days either underwater or buried in debris, how do you get supplies to an area. Do you attempt air drops into an area of snipers and looters? When you have an isolated area of 20, 000 screamers, looters, and snipers, who gets the most TV coverage, and while the cameras are on, they begin to faint, stagger, and fall over, that brings out the Reverend Jesse Jackson - hollering racisim, who gets the coverage. People seemed to forget, that storm didn't just quit after it hit New Orleans! Other parts north and east of there were hit hard also, so that created at least another full day before rescue attempts could be started. You don't see just a whole lot of coverage from Mississippi or Alabama, because they aren't screaming, looting, and sniping - so it isn't NEWS WORTHY to put them on TV. A bus loaded with evacuees rolled over yesterday, because the driver was attacked by a black assailant who demanded to get off! Now the relief is coming, and those SuperDomers are still not happy, still wanting, and still screaming. Wait till they are told to leave out of there, and you'll be hearing/seeing a lot more of the same. Many people being evacuated to Houston, San Antonio, Austin, are already saying that they are not going back! So we've got another problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Re: Just curious? I don't blame the people effected by this devastation for freaking out right now. They've lost much, some of them have lost everything. I don't think the authorities were prepared for a worse-case scenario with this storm. It's a shame after all the predictions. I saw a black minister on TV today, pulling the ol' race card and saying if these folks were white and rich, they would have gotten help quicker.....that, to me is a bunch of kaka. I wish people wouldn't say things like that in the middle of something so devastating. If they want to cast blame...blame Katrina. It is taking authorities a long time just to get into some of these places as well as putting rescue and aid efforts together. I feel so sorry for those who are in such desperate need right now, but casting blame is not going to change anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Re: Just curious? Another point to ponder from the English class discussion, regarding the people who have grown waery and violent, not the looters mind you, my Professor posed the question, At what point do you start to lose it and lose all hope for survival and start acting irrationally, at what point would you? These people have lost their homes, their belongings, they are surrounded by water, in 90+ degree heat, with no help in sight, I would probably start acting irrationally, as I am sure some on here would also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Re: Just curious? I agree Marc. For a lot of these people, it must seem like the end of the world or close to it right now. They can't even see tomorrow, because their today is so over-whelming. It's easier to sit back and judge than it is to put the shoe on the other foot eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdickey Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Re: Just curious? People act surprised by the lawlessness in this devestation in New Orleans. I saw this TV clip the other night... sorta makes you wonder .... http://www.zippyvideos.com/8911023771013466/countdown-looting-in-walmart And then, one of the earliest emergency responses to the devestation are armed troops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Re: Just curious? First of all this race card is bull KAKA, white, black, red, yellow, and all other races that decided to stay behind are figuring out very quick that stupid hurts. I would say that about 20 percent of the folks that are left actually had to stay and ride the storm out, the others are paying the price. Sluggo, your professors are posing very good questions. I think that if I was on the receiving end of this bad deal I would be more than greatful for any help received. It would not be hard to tell that others were much worse off with all of the dead bodies floating by. Some people are actually shooting at the rescue personnel because they don't want them on their land or near their house. This is straight from a friend that just spent the last three days in waste deep water. he saw it first hand and said that it was not what the news is reporting. The looters for the most part should be shot if they have anything besides what is nessary for survival in their hands. I am actually amazed at how quick some saw this as a profit verse a crisis. Elwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Re: Just curious? [ QUOTE ] i dont think you can blame the federal government, the blame lies at the local and state level for not having any disaster plan whatsoever. the blame lies with the people who had ample warning time to leave but elected to stay. [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely have to agree with this. The state of Lousianna knew that the levees were a problem, they had no plan. The state did not enforce a mandatory evacuation. The people who are responsible and that should be accountable for this mass chaos are just passing the buck. From what I understand they are lucky really, New Orleans did not exactly take a direct hit. [ QUOTE ] The whole time he was talking they kept blaming the governments slow response.But what were they doing in the rescue boats to start with?Hauling the media along only takes up 4 or 5 seats that could be used for hauling people out in the boats. [/ QUOTE ] Why is the media not dropping their cams out of the choppers and picking up the people rather than flying around and getting a story. They have room to save people, but the story is all they are after. I have yet to see a report of any media members giving up their equipment to make room for rescues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdickey Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Re: Just curious? Then you assess these local and state priorities.... 1. SuperDome 2. convention center 3. "river walk" renovation 4. pro football team 5. pro basketball team 999. levee repair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrea Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Re: Just curious? First off, let me go ahead and say that no matter how poor I was....I would find a way out of living in a city below sea level. Plain and simple. The people who stayed in New Orleans were poor and ignorant. A lot of the older residents who stayed figured that because they made it thru Camille, they would make it thru Katrina. I firmly believe that the city of New Orleans should NOT be re-built. This will happen again.....and it may happen before the season is over with!!! Wanna know something scary??? Imagine what the situation would be if the levee on the Mississppi River side broke too????? The response time for rescuing these people was without a doubt....too slow. FEMA's response to that is "poor management". Now they will have the lovely task of cleaning up that horrible mess left behind in the Superdome (Urine soaked astro-turf). Not to mention the clean up of the sewage laden waters that fill the entire city. Wonder how long the response time will be for THAT???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrea Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Re: Just curious? I guess the folks we really should feel sorry for are the nursing home residents who could NOT help themselves. The nursing homes did NOT evacuate their patients. These poor people were sentenced to die basically because they could not get out on their own. The president of one of those parrishes was telling people on Meet The Press that one 95 yr. old lady kept calling her son and asking when they were coming to rescue her. She called everyday.."Are they coming to get me son?" "Are they coming to get me?" And everyday he told her they were coming. She drowned in that nursing home Friday night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BuckMaster058 Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Re: Just curious? I was watchin CNN on T.V. And there was a conference or meeting with a bunch of various racial groups. And they were talking about race being an issue. I am afraid what might happen with that being brought up. I just don't want to see a divided country. With what is all happening with the devastation Katrina left behind and the Iraq war we don't need to be fighting with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Re: Just curious? [ QUOTE ] I am actually amazed at how quick some saw this as a profit verse a crisis. [/ QUOTE ] As soon as a disaster strikes anywhere in the world, one person immediately starts thinking of how to help, and another one starts thinking of how to profit. A sad fact of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJL Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Re: Just curious? " Tough times don't last.......Tough people do"................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Re: Just curious? Send in the Marines! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Re: Just curious? A guy I go to church with had some family in the Superdome. They weren't stupid or poor. They tryed to leave Saturday night and got stuck on the highway and were directed back to the Superdome. These were both college educated people who thought (incorrectly) that a day and a half was plenty time to get out. It wasn't. They were fortunate enough to find their vehicle relatively intanct and drivable and got out on the earliest opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Re: Just curious? John I am glad too hear that family made it out of town with their vehicle and lives intact and as I said about 20 percent of the folks could not but be there. The fact that they got out of there even after the storm makes a statment that it was not impossible to get out of there after the storm was over. I will maintain that stupid hurts. The ones that are shooting should meet TSB, if that does not work I will help get a B-52 in there. LOL Rock on RealTree Elwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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