popgun Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry I seldom carry VH, I don't feel the need, unless I'm traveling...and then it is in the glove compartment. I also served in the military to make sure our "rights" are protected. But not just the right to "bear arms", or the privilege to carry a concealed weapon. I also fought to preserve the rights of a businessman to set his own policy. I thought that is what freedom is. ....popgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry Well just don't let the "fire in your belly" and your "passion for it" cause you to lose your common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popgun Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry buckee, I think your reply was intended for hunter480. Lately the only fire in my belly is indigestion, but Protonix sure does help. .....popgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] Lately the only fire in my belly is indigestion. [/ QUOTE ] Mine too man...is that old age or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunter480 Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] I just have a query to make,,,I definately don't want to tredd on anyones rights,,,,,but I served this great country so I think I'm intitled to ask..... Why on gods green earth would anyone feel the need to carry a weapon grocery shopping, to pay a cell phone bill, or to go out ot eat ?? or to just go fo a drive with the family ?? I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just trying to understand the thought behind it..... I don't want to hear the old " Because I can bit either " lets be original and honest here... And when doe's it become infringing on the rights of others to feel safe from your weapon in public ??? Mind you I fought for those rights to carry and bear arms..... ,,,,I'm just trying to understand when it becomes an infringment of others rights.... So let me hear these lagitament reasons on why everyone feels the need to carry a weapon in a public place,,,,, [/ QUOTE ] The people who choose to not own or carry weapons are perfectly entitled to that choice. As for the assertion that we who carry infringe on the public`s safety, that`s not true. If you`re interested, you can get the figures from each state that will tell you how many citizens have concealed carry permits. Yet, even with a left oriented media, that jump at every chance to demonize firearms, you do not hear about concealed carry permit holders misusing their firearms. The facts are that lawfully owned firearms are used on average of 2 million times a year by lawful citizens to protect themselves, or someone else, and sometimes without ever firing. But you won`t hear about that on the news. As for why we feel the need, it`s because of the animals that run the streets. Statistically, the odds are pretty remote that you will become a victim of a violent crime, but the odds don`t mean much to you once it happens. And it`s been shown in more than on study that areas that have concealed carry tend to have lower violent crimes commited. It is not the law-abiding citizen licensed to carry a weapon that you have to fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] But like it or not, there are certain principles that aren`t negotiable [/ QUOTE ] So hunter480, would getting to decide what takes place on your own property be one of these principles?Cuz thats all this businuess is doing, excersizing thier right to do what they want with thier property. Let me ask you this, suppose you find me wandering around your property with a gun during deer seasonwithout your permission.Am I excersizing my right to bear arms wherever I want or am I tresspassing?If thier signs are unconstitutional what are your No tresspassing signs? At what point did your right to bear arms become more important than anyone elses right to feel safe in thier own property?A public businuess is still private property isnt it?Boycott them if you want, thats also your right, but when you start alienating people over stupid things like this your not doing the guns rights movement any good, you just make us look like a bunch of lunatics that cant go to the store without packing a pistol along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunter480 Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But like it or not, there are certain principles that aren`t negotiable [/ QUOTE ] So hunter480, would getting to decide what takes place on your own property be one of these principles?Cuz thats all this businuess is doing, excersizing thier right to do what they want with thier property. Let me ask you this, suppose you find me wandering around your property with a gun during deer seasonwithout your permission.Am I excersizing my right to bear arms wherever I want or am I tresspassing?If thier signs are unconstitutional what are your No tresspassing signs? At what point did your right to bear arms become more important than anyone elses right to feel safe in thier own property?A public businuess is still private property isnt it?Boycott them if you want, thats also your right, but when you start alienating people over stupid things like this your not doing the guns rights movement any good, you just make us look like a bunch of lunatics that cant go to the store without packing a pistol along. [/ QUOTE ] You certainly can feel that this is stupid, it`s your right. I don`t expect everyone to be able to stand up and be counted. It`s way to easy to just let it all go by and go with the flow. It`s all good. How you compare tresspassing to the right to carry a firearm I don`t get, but ok. And you`re not alone. There are an estimated 80 million gun owners in this country, yet only slightly more than 4 million members of NRA. That all by itself tells a sad story about the state of this country. At least there are 4 million of us though that aren`t sheep. 4 million of us who will do the dirty work for all the others who don`t have the stomach. You should read a book titled "The Courage to be Free", by Charlton Heston. It`s a great read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry Way too many holes there hunter480,,you use the word "FACT" alot but I don't see any lagitament numbers to back-up what you say is fact.... [ QUOTE ] As for why we feel the need, it`s because of the animals that run the streets. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't this why we employee trained police officers to handle these situations ??? If every Tom, Dick and Harry carries a weapon on the street how in the world are law enforcement officers going to tell who's who ?? Just for example:: 2 men come running out of a store that has just been robbed the police see these 2 men, and gun fire insues both men that ran out of the store are killed on the spot.....come to find out 1 of these men killed was a father of 3 chasing after the criminal....Just how were the police to know this...???? See where Im going with this ????? [ QUOTE ] As for the assertion that we who carry infringe on the public`s safety, that`s not true. [/ QUOTE ] Why wouldn't it be true ??? If you use a gun to defend yourself in a public place aren't you putting innocent indiviuals in harms way ?? I sure would hate to be in the middle of someones gun battle in McDonalds. [ QUOTE ] It is not the law-abiding citizen licensed to carry a weapon that you have to fear. [/ QUOTE ] Now I know that this statement can be torn apart easily from first-hand knowledge.....I'll elaberate for ya.... With the recent rise in gasoline prices,,,my wife and one of her co-workers were chased back inside the store while attempting to raise the gas prices, by a regular patron that was fed up with the gas hikes. Just what do you think would have happened if he was armed and just snapped on that given day......??? Again do you see where Im going with this also ?? To me there's just too many Pro's and Con's to the CCW debate.....This is why I ask,,is there really a need for citizens to be armed to go out and eat or pay a bill..???? Again just let me make it clear,,,,it's your right to carry a weapon if it's legal, I have no problem with that.....but next time you enter a public place just pick out a few people and ask them just how they feel about you carrying a weapon, while they are shopping,,,,you just may be suprised about how uncomfortable it makes them.... Like I said I have worked retail for years....If you entered where I work with a firearm,,my first instinct would be to hit the alarm..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry I aint talking about the NRA, your trying to drag the conversation into a totally different direction.The comparisons easy, they both involve private property and guns.What makes it ok for you to tell someone they cant bring guns onto your property but turn around and say its not ok for someone to tell you not to bring guns on thiers?Its the exact same thing. Your right to bear arms doesnt trump thier right to decide what happens on thier property.It aint going with the flow, its common sense.Protecting your right to bear arms is very important.But if your trampling other peoples rights in the process your no better then the antis that are trying to take your guns away. You dont know anything about me by the way, you have no idea what groups im involved with or what any of my stances are.You wanna boycott someplace because you cant pack your gun in to pay your phone bill feel free, its your right.You wanna run your mouth and insult people in here you better think again, Im the second one youve managed to insult in this post for daring to disagree with you and its getting old fast.Dont do the dirty work for me, dont even pretend to speak for me, people like you are whats gonna cost us our rights in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] At least there are 4 million of us though that aren`t sheep. 4 million of us who will do the dirty work for all the others who don`t have the stomach. [/ QUOTE ] That right there was totally abserd,,I'll compare my military record with yours on any given day......and I don't have to be a member of the NRA to do it either...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunter480 Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] Way too many holes there hunter480,,you use the word "FACT" alot but I don't see any lagitament numbers to back-up what you say is fact.... [ QUOTE ] As for why we feel the need, it`s because of the animals that run the streets. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't this why we employee trained police officers to handle these situations ??? If every Tom, Dick and Harry carries a weapon on the street how in the world are law enforcement officers going to tell who's who ?? Just for example:: 2 men come running out of a store that has just been robbed the police see these 2 men, and gun fire insues both men that ran out of the store are killed on the spot.....come to find out 1 of these men killed was a father of 3 chasing after the criminal....Just how were the police to know this...???? See where Im going with this ????? [ QUOTE ] As for the assertion that we who carry infringe on the public`s safety, that`s not true. [/ QUOTE ] Why wouldn't it be true ??? If you use a gun to defend yourself in a public place aren't you putting innocent indiviuals in harms way ?? I sure would hate to be in the middle of someones gun battle in McDonalds. [ QUOTE ] It is not the law-abiding citizen licensed to carry a weapon that you have to fear. [/ QUOTE ] Now I know that this statement can be torn apart easily from first-hand knowledge.....I'll elaberate for ya.... With the recent rise in gasoline prices,,,my wife and one of her co-workers were chased back inside the store while attempting to raise the gas prices, by a regular patron that was fed up with the gas hikes. Just what do you think would have happened if he was armed and just snapped on that given day......??? Again do you see where Im going with this also ?? To me there's just too many Pro's and Con's to the CCW debate.....This is why I ask,,is there really a need for citizens to be armed to go out and eat or pay a bill..???? Again just let me make it clear,,,,it's your right to carry a weapon if it's legal, I have no problem with that.....but next time you enter a public place just pick out a few people and ask them just how they feel about you carrying a weapon, while they are shopping,,,,you just may be suprised about how uncomfortable it makes them.... Like I said I have worked retail for years....If you entered where I work with a firearm,,my first instinct would be to hit the alarm..... [/ QUOTE ] Dude, look, it`s not about polling people in a store to see how they feel about it. Too many people have lost their will to do anything but just be sheep. And fortunately, the firearm debate isn`t up for public voting, the second amendment settled that. If you want to e-mail me let me know and I`ll get my e-mail address to you. I can send you an atricle Fox News Channel ran on their website a while back about the police not having any constitutional duty to protect anyone. Besides, how many times have you known of the police to prevent a violent crime. Typically, they`re only there to draw chalk outlines and interview neighbors or passersby. I`m not knocking the police, but if you are depending on them for your protection, you`re setting yourself up for what could potentially be a fatal disappointment. Again, I`ll assert that concealed carry permit holders pose no risk to the public. You ask for numbers from me, but all you gave me was suppositions. Give me numerous real instances to support the suppositions you presented to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunter480 Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] I aint talking about the NRA, your trying to drag the conversation into a totally different direction.The comparisons easy, they both involve private property and guns.What makes it ok for you to tell someone they cant bring guns onto your property but turn around and say its not ok for someone to tell you not to bring guns on thiers?Its the exact same thing. Your right to bear arms doesnt trump thier right to decide what happens on thier property.It aint going with the flow, its common sense.Protecting your right to bear arms is very important.But if your trampling other peoples rights in the process your no better then the antis that are trying to take your guns away. You dont know anything about me by the way, you have no idea what groups im involved with or what any of my stances are.You wanna boycott someplace because you cant pack your gun in to pay your phone bill feel free, its your right.You wanna run your mouth and insult people in here you better think again, Im the second one youve managed to insult in this post for daring to disagree with you and its getting old fast.Dont do the dirty work for me, dont even pretend to speak for me, people like you are whats gonna cost us our rights in the long run. [/ QUOTE ] Keep belivin` that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] You ask for numbers from me, but all you gave me was suppositions. Give me numerous real instances to support the suppositions you presented to me. [/ QUOTE ] Yep I did ask for numbers ......but it seems you want to dance around the issue,,,, I gave you factually instaces that I have personally witnessed.....so ther are no numbers for me to give you..... I see you want this to be totally one sided..unfortunately life isn't that way......You say polling the public is uncostitutional,,,,and has NO merrit,,,,,,,well my friend it's the public that votes,,, If it's an 100% contitutional right to CCW,,then why is it illegal to do so many states ????? I think you need to understand that the right to bear and carry arms is way different than carrying a concealed weapon for purposes not known to the person next to........ I think after this little debate with you I'm leanning more to the side of being against this CCW thing. The constitution isn't a frivalous toy for people that think as narrow as you do, to word as they see fit..... The 2nd. amendment states that you as a law biding citizen the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Just remember the bold part of the amendment ( the right of the people ) this is where it is at my friend......... amendments can be changed by the voting community of this country......think about that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunter480 Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry I couldn`t imagine a single instance or situation where I would be your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] I couldn`t imagine a single instance or situation where I would be your friend. [/ QUOTE ] Why because you lost this little debate with facts ?? Just remember when you start something you better have the facts right..... And as far as I'm concerned you are the problem not the solution....It's people like you that make this world so hard to live in... Remember I served my country can you say the same,,,or are you one of the ones that wave the flag like it's your own personal banner, and have nothing to answer for..... If you are going to use amendments and constitutional rights to hide behind just remember the ones that actually fought for them and know the true meaning of them and what they stand for.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunter480 Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I couldn`t imagine a single instance or situation where I would be your friend. [/ QUOTE ] Why because you lost this little debate with facts ?? Just remember when you start something you better have the facts right..... And as far as I'm concerned you are the problem not the solution....It's people like you that make this world so hard to live in... Remember I served my country can you say the same,,,or are you one of the ones that wave the flag like it's your own personal banner, and have nothing to answer for..... If you are going to use amendments and constitutional rights to hide behind just remember the ones that actually fought for them and know the true meaning of them and what they stand for.... [/ QUOTE ] It`s up to you dude. If you have to have the last word, just let me know that`s what you need, and I won`t respond. If you want to keep the tennis ball coming back across the net, we can do that too. You have no facts, just hot air. And you and I would never be friends because my friends are patriots who are capable of thinking for themselves and aren`t afraid to take heat from most of the sheep that inhabit this country. I`m not trying to offend you, but keep coming at me with your insults and completely convoluted logic and I`ll feel the need to respond. The more you go on, the more obvious it is to anyone watching that there is no substance what so ever to your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry Lets see.... I think it was you that started the insulting, by saying something like this.... [ QUOTE ] I couldn`t imagine a single instance or situation where I would be your friend. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You have no facts, just hot air. [/ QUOTE ] And as for me having NO facts I think I was the one that showed you the light on the 2nd. amendment and it's true meaning not the one that you think it has.... And as for my hot air......Like I said earlier I served my country,,,,,,,,and I have asked you a couple times already if you have,,but seem to keep dancing around that one also.... [ QUOTE ] And you and I would never be friends because my friends are patriots who are capable of thinking for themselves and aren`t afraid to take heat from most of the sheep that inhabit this country. [/ QUOTE ] Patriots serve their country not stir the pot and try to take advantage of rights that were fought for them by others... [ QUOTE ] I`m not trying to offend you, but keep coming at me with your insults [/ QUOTE ] Too late you have already insulted me and a couple others in this thread with your unfounded so called facts..... And just where in my responses did I insult you ???? Or is that something else you feel the need to twist to your advantage ?? All I did was ask for some numbers and facts and what your military background was,,,,if that's insulting to you well you definately have more than one problem...... [ QUOTE ] The more you go on, the more obvious it is to anyone watching that there is no substance what so ever to your argument. [/ QUOTE ] Obviously you are delusional,,,if there was NO substance to what I have stated others would have most definatley corrected me,,,,the only one that see's anything wrong with factual statements is yourself.... Let me leave you with this..if you are going to hide behind the 2nd. amendment atleast know what it says,,,and what it's true meaning is.....and be sure to access a dictionary to look up the word amend,,,you just may be suprised at what it means... I'm all done with this thread,,before it gets out of hand..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popgun Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry Here we go again. hunter480, you have been on this board for just over 25 hours and have managed to accomplish nothing but alienate yourself. I do not have to carry a sidearm in order to stand and be counted. You wanted facts, but you can't furnish anything you have not read from the NRA-ILA. The NRA is a great organization for its intended purpose, but even the NRA does not advocate everyone running around the streets of Coatesville, Indiana packing heat. Fact.... Employers teach their employees to hand over the money and cooperate if the business is robbed, because there is a greater chance of survival without injury, without confrontation. If I were the head of a large pharmaceutical corporation, I would not let anyone other than security carry a weapon. I would simply fire you if you did not comply. If I were the owner of a large pharmacy, and had a no carry policy in my store, and you came in to make a delivery carrying a sidearm; I would call your boss. I would simply tell him that I wanted my drugs delivered by someone who could follow my store policy or I would purchase my stock somewhere else. Do you really think your boss would want to loose a large account? If you are not allowed to carry while you are working, would you quit your job? Can you really afford to put your money where your mouth is? Yesterday you mentioned another website. You can go back there any time you wish and you will not be missed here. Many good people from all walks of life have come into this site and made friends in less than 24 hours. You have done nothing but put us in a separate category from yourself. You seem to have a high opinion of yourself. You are young enough to serve your country by joining the military, but you would rather sit in your cushy position and find fault with a system you have done nothing to establish or protect. Go on and moan; I won't be listening. I will continue to purchase goods and services from the businesses I respect, because they have the nerve to stand up for their own store policy. ....popgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry Popgun and VermontHunter, Can I just say that I'm really proud of the way you two have handled yourselves in here. Hat's off to you both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] Popgun and VermontHunter, Can I just say that I'm really proud of the way you two have handled yourselves in here. Hat's off to you both [/ QUOTE ] I guess it's good that I never got involved in this one ...I was thinking this thread had to do with cell phones Hey VH...I thought you weren't allowed in here anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] Hey VH...I thought you weren't allowed in here anyway [/ QUOTE ] I snuck in Mike...... I must have left an impression Mike... ,,Thanks Steve I appreciate it... I just hate when people hide behind the constitution and amendments that we good folks in the service fought for..... And atleast if you are going to use one of the amendments,,,know what it stands for,,not what you think it should stand for... But I think I'll stand down and let Mike have a crack at this one for awhile....I'm sure he and I are on about the same page here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry Nahh, it's too late for me man. This is your fight, not mine. Like I said, I thought this was cell phone thread talking about the right to carry a cell phone on your person so I gave it no mind Hunter480 and I seemed alike in that other thread...no idea what's gotten in him now ...oh well, have fun and behave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry Hhmmm...NO BACK-UP Mike ???... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] Hhmmm...NO BACK-UP Mike ???... [/ QUOTE ] There VH, I just farted alright. That should teach him a lesson for a while. Is that enough back-up for today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Re: Cellular One = No right-to-carry [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Hhmmm...NO BACK-UP Mike ???... [/ QUOTE ] There VH, I just farted alright. That should teach him a lesson for a while. Is that enough back-up for today [/ QUOTE ] DANG !! You stink.....CHEMICAL WARFARE,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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