Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

[Hillbilly]

Where I live in Indiana with my parents, their land has a high ratio of does, well after a couple disappointing things happen this year I might take a year off trying to down a buck. I want to slim the doe population at my house. Going to kill 3 does this season and worry about a harvesting a buck next year. My parent's land was once a big buck area, but the does has over ran this place the last few years.

My question is can does run out bucks during the summer to a point that they never return during the fall???

The disappointments I had this late summer, if any of you remember the land owner's permission I got. I told you about that big buck. Well he was killed by a drunk driver. This buck was huge. 250lbs 23-25 inch inside spread, wasted!!!

I still have permission to hunt on his land after the smaller nine, but I rather get my parent's land back to a hunter's dream.

I know this year's fawns can already breed, so I'm going to take out 2 first year fawns (good eatting) and a mature doe.

So whoever team I'm on, I'm taking does. Time to manage my property.

[Tominator]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

I don't think the does run the bucks off. In fact, come rut, you should see more bucks.

I think your plan to bring in quality bucks is good. Shoot more does for the next few years and you should see a difference.

[Guest MarylandQDMA]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

check out www.qdma.com you will learn SO much info there it will make your head spin (mine did).

first and most important thing you need to do is start collecting data of the deer you see (cams help out with this). as your data comes in you can then make an educated decision on how many does you should take. with the data I got last year I can set my quota's for this years hunting. if I were you 3 does sounds a bit low, but then again maybe not for your area (we shoot 6 to 8 does on are 17 acres!)

good luck and have fun manageing your heard. I was in your shooes years ago and have just resently started to see improvments to the buck population.

Frank

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

I went with a friend a few years ago to a ranch in South Texas that had just implemented a QDM plan. The biologist in charge wanted 200 does taken off of the 12,000 acres. No charge and the tags were supplied by the landowner. The only stipulation was that we had to either process the deer ourselves, or take it to a processor. There couldn't be any waste of the meat. I shot 14 in 2 days and never got so sick of killing and cleaning deer in my life! I was giving away dressed (skinned and quartered) deer to everyone I knew. It was a tremendous job but the results were amazing! Today, after 5 years of intense management, my friend is seeing 160 - 180 class bucks almost every day he hunts (wish they'd invite me back for a buck hunt!). Moral of the story is, if your buck to doe ratio is out of balance, you can bring it back in line with the right program.

[Smitteken]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

Sounds like fun to me.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

[ QUOTE ]

Sounds like fun to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I thought too, before I did it.

It was a weekend and Saturday morning I shot 5 does. Gutting the 5 deer took almost 2 hours. We then loaded them up and went back to headquarters where they had a skinning rack. Skinning and quartering took another 2 hours, but I did learn how to skin one with a pickup. That helped a lot! Then it was back out to the stand and another 5 does. Should have been 6, but one shot clipped a branch and missed everything. Spent most of the night getting those gutted and skinned. Come Sunday, I wasn't nearly as anxious to pull the trigger. I shot 2 Sunday morning and 2 more Sunday evening. My hands were so sore that I could barely grip the knife! Lucky I didn't cut my arm off...

[JimT]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

I would let several guys hunt it and just let them shoot a couple does each. That would help.

[Hillbilly]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

the only reaosn why I would take 3 does is that is what they offer for my county. We get 2 then an antlerless tag.

[double_drop]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

Whatever you do, DO NOT SHOOT THE YOUNG DOES!!!!!!!!!!! 99 percent of the time the young does will have bucks and the old does will give birth to the does. So you are better off taking the mature does to ensure less chance of having more does.

[Guest MarylandQDMA]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

[ QUOTE ]

Whatever you do, DO NOT SHOOT THE YOUNG DOES!!!!!!!!!!! 99 percent of the time the young does will have bucks and the old does will give birth to the does. So you are better off taking the mature does to ensure less chance of having more does.

[/ QUOTE ]

WHAT! I can't say I have herd of this but maybe. it seems to me from what I have been told is because of buck dispertion (sp); this is where the older does will run off their young buck fawns. By shooting these older does, your young bucks yearlings and 1.5yo bucks will stay in the area.

in a healthy haibat a doe will have two fawns, a buck and a doe fawn. sure some can have two doe fawns or two buck fawns but most have one of each sex.

Frank

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

[ QUOTE ]

Whatever you do, DO NOT SHOOT THE YOUNG DOES!!!!!!!!!!! 99 percent of the time the young does will have bucks and the old does will give birth to the does. So you are better off taking the mature does to ensure less chance of having more does.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a bit curious about this too. Is this something you've been told, or do you have a reference for it?

[elkhntnfool]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

Starting a management plan is a great idea but I would advise that you don't shoot the younger ones because you won't know for sure if it's a doe or just a nubby buck. I'd hate to see your plan fail because you shot a buntch of young yearling bucks instead of does.

[Guest MarylandQDMA]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

Break_Through if you are in an ag area and have crops you may be able to get cropdamage permits in order to harvest more does.

Frank

[Hillbilly]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

My uncles own farms, that would probably let me go shoot some does/bucks.... but i myself down own farmland.

[beagleboy]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

I agree with double drop. Don't shoot the fawns. My buddy did that with a friend of his and they shot three fawns. They later realized they were all bucks. Bad news for us. They would have fine bucks down the road. So we now implement a rule of no fawns and we only shoot older does that are without fawns and no smaller bucks with potential. The down fall of the plan is that once they enter other lands that we have no permission to hunt, they are on their own and southern New York on opening day sounds like a war zone. To some hunters, brown is down which I don't have a problem with but it kinda puts a monkey wrench in your plan.

[Ohiobucks]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

[ QUOTE ]

I don't think the does run the bucks off. In fact, come rut, you should see more bucks.

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Au contrair, mon frier.......It sounds like Break Through's problem is there are way too many does in the area. When the doe population is extremly high, the bucks will be a lot less active during the rut as far as seeking is concerned. That is when most of us buck hunters see bucks during the rut, when they are out looking for does. A buck surrounded by many, many does will not be all over the country side looking for hot does, they will be right there with them all the time. Get the buck-to-doe ratio down, then the bucks become more active during the seeking phase of the rut, which means they will be more visible, which means you have a better chance at shooting him, you know, when you can see him. It only makes sense!

[TexasDeerHunter]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

I have never heard of young does having buck fawns either. Typically, at least in Texas, with good nutrition a doe over the age of 1.5 years will drop two fawns and usually one of each sex. Some doe will only have one, the birth rate in this state is 150% due to 50% of doe having twins . The actual survival rate is slightly less than 75%. I watch our herd close and have no documentation of doe running out the bucks, they will compete for food . If you are in area that has a high deer per acre population and only marginal food source then the doe could potentially consume food that would be crucial to the bucks nutrional needs. My recomendation would be to shoot the older doe and let the little ones walk. I say this because alot of time has been put in to study the quickest and most effective way to improve the genetic quality of herds here in Texas. It is a know fact that most breeding is done by big dominant bucks, if you have done your job as a manager and taken out cull bucks then you have increased the odds that the most recent offspring of doe have the dominant bucks genetics. This said, if you take a young doe with quality genetics and let her breed to a huge buck with quality genetics then you have successfully improved what is know as the GENETIC FREQUENCY of your herd. This means that there is a greater chance that the young doe will pass on buck and doe fawns with good genetics. If you have practiced this for some time then obviously the older does will have been affected by the program and it is just a matter of picking what doe you want to shoot. Keep in mind that it takes three things to grow big deer: AGE, GENETICS, and NUTRITION. If one is missing then you can not consistently produce large deer. There has been a long and ongoing debate on which factor is the most important, it has not been solved. My opinion is that nutrition should come first, then age followed by genetics. Try and harvest any bucks that are over 5.5 years, older doe, and look at planting some food plots. Good Luck.

[double_drop]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

I actually heard that from some realtree pro staff members. I for some real will take their advice over most anyone elses because that is all they do for a living.

[Guest lilcrackshot]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

Deffinately shoot more does. The magical 1-1 ratio makes for better calling and hunting.

[wtnhunt]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

Think the does might be more visible during the summer than most of the bucks. Does will run off their offspring and any young bucks when they are having their fawns. Come time for the rut, the bucks will be back around.

[Guest TBryan]

Re: Question about Does and Doe Hunting?

[ QUOTE ]

I went with a friend a few years ago to a ranch in South Texas that had just implemented a QDM plan. The biologist in charge wanted 200 does taken off of the 12,000 acres. No charge and the tags were supplied by the landowner. The only stipulation was that we had to either process the deer ourselves, or take it to a processor. There couldn't be any waste of the meat. I shot 14 in 2 days and never got so sick of killing and cleaning deer in my life! I was giving away dressed (skinned and quartered) deer to everyone I knew. It was a tremendous job but the results were amazing! Today, after 5 years of intense management, my friend is seeing 160 - 180 class bucks almost every day he hunts (wish they'd invite me back for a buck hunt!). Moral of the story is, if your buck to doe ratio is out of balance, you can bring it back in line with the right program.

[/ QUOTE ]

What county was that?

As for taking yearlings i would pass in my opinion. On my lease we practice QDM. We have a biologist that comes out and does a survey once a year. He says its best to take the older does if possible.