Chrud Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Copied from Jayski. Wouldn't that be something if for the 2nd time this year the 48 won and the 5 was 2nd with cars out of spec? Seems to be a pattern. _______________ #48 and #5 fail post race at Dover? too high? been told that the winning #48 Chevy that Jimmie Johnson drove to victory at Dover didn't meet the height reqiurements in post-race inspection and supposedly the #5 Chevy failed also. #5-Busch finished a very close 2nd. Hearing the height was over 3/4" off in the rear of the cars. It was mentioned during the race broadcast that the two cars sat higher then other cars on the track. Was told that it was reported to the media that all cars passed inspection, not sure if their is a shock issue or if fines will be handed out, Tuesday is usually the day NASCAR announces such things [except for after New Hampshire last week]. The #5 team was fined back in March for having the quarter panels too high at Las Vegas and the #48 was fined after Vegas for being too low.(9-27-2005) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texastrophies Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? Saw this on Dale Jr.'s website [ QUOTE ] During yellow flag periods, Dale Jr. is known to examine the details of the cars around him. Dale Jr: “Man, that 5 car (Kyle Busch) is really jacked up in the back.” Tony Jr: “Yeah, you could fit a fence post under there.” Dale Jr: (suspiciously) “Yeah. Somethin’s goin on there…” [/ QUOTE ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deldeer Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? http://aolsvc.sports.aol.nascar.com/news/headlines/cup/2005.cup.fines/index.html yep,.....definently see a pattern here..........looks like they all do it !!!!!!.....just think, these are just the ones that got caught!!!! sorry, they did'nt get your worse nightmare(48) again...(at least not yet).......o' wait, maybe nascar "swept it under the carpet" ......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted September 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? Ya, they got big brooms at Hendrick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTF Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? I wanna know if the 48 got fined points. If so post it here. Chrud and Deldeer, your in a heap of trouble ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? Here we go again......... Considering the report was done on speculation.... We'll just have to wait and see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted September 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? On "Victory Lane", they said 2 cars sat in the garage and were too high. Even the drivers saw that the 5 was too high. And when the 5 is out of spec, finishes 2nd, and JJ wins, usually the 48 is out of spec too. I think both should get a points fine if they were out of spec. CC's too. I do find it interesting that twice this year the 48 and 5 finished 1-2 and both times they were out of spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdvantageTimberLou Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? Bunch of cheaters!!! JK!! Almost have to laugh at this one, need details though and not speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABuckSlayer Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? Maybe the 15 car tested an illegal set up at Dega and the 8 will use it too so they can finish 1-2 in the race. They're not in the "Chase" so who cares about 25 points when you can get the win? Right? If I was an owner and not in the "Chase" now... why not. It's just a slap on the wrist at this point! (if you get caught!) Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? [ QUOTE ] #48/#5 too high in post race inspection at Dover? UPDATE: been told that the winning #48 Chevy that Jimmie Johnson drove to victory at Dover didn't meet the height reqiurements in post-race inspection and supposedly the #5 Chevy was too high also. #5-Busch finished a very close 2nd. Hearing the height was over 3/4" off in the rear of the cars. It was mentioned during the race broadcast that the two cars sat higher then other cars on the track. Was told that it was reported to the media that all cars passed inspection , not sure if their is a shock issue or if fines will be handed out, Tuesday is usually the day NASCAR announces such things [except for after New Hampshire last week]. The #5 team was fined back in March for having the quarter panels too high at Las Vegas and the #48 was fined after Vegas for being too low with Johnson winning and Busch finishing 2nd.(9-27-2005) UPDATE: For the second time this season, a cloud hovers over a 1-2 finish by Jimmie Johnson and Kyle Busch. The shock absorbers from six cars , including those of Johnson and Busch, were confiscated after Sunday's race at Dover. They were taken for testing to see if they are in compliance with NASCAR rules. Johnson won the event and took the lead in the chase for the Cup championship as Busch finished a close second. Their shocks were taken after their cars had trouble passing post-race inspection. Johnson and Busch had a 1-2 finish tainted at Las Vegas when the rear of Johnson's car was too low and the right-rear of Busch's car was too high during post-race checks. Shocks were also confiscated at Dover from the cars of Penske Racing teammates Ryan Newman and Rusty Wallace; and the Roush Racing cars of Mark Martin and Greg Biffle. Of the six, only Busch is not among drivers in the championship chase.(High Point Enterprise)(9-28-2005) [/ QUOTE ] Above is the whole story......It seems that it wasn't only the Hendrick cars..... But as of 9/28/05 nothing else has been said about this matter.....This to me is very confusing...were the shocks legal or not.... seems to me NASCAR has had enough time to make some type of press release on this issue.... Either way if they are found to be illegal, I say fine the heck out of them and kill their points for that race.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted September 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? They probably are illegal, especially if the cars are out of spec. But, since so many of them are Chase drivers, I wouldn't expect to see much of anything. I guess some rules only apply to pre-chase races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? [ QUOTE ] I guess some rules only apply to pre-chase races [/ QUOTE ] You may be onto something there Matt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? I haven't seen anything on NASCAR.com about this deal, what advantage could there be to having the rear of the car too high anyway, seems to me that that would be a hindrance more than anything. If these shocks were taken by NASCAR to be tested, it could be one of those deals where the parts were not technically legal, but not illegal either. Remember awhile back when Jeff Gordon had the Jurassic Park car in The Winston All Star race, he was using an "experimental" chassis, NASCAR didn't fine him, take the race win away from him, because it technically wasn't legal/illegal, NASCAR just told him and Ray Evernham to never bring that car back to the track ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted September 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? [ QUOTE ] what advantage could there be to having the rear of the car too high anyway, seems to me that that would be a hindrance more than anything. [/ QUOTE ] It would act like a higher spoiler and give the car a ton more downforce and better handling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? Slugo, Jeff and Ray counted their blessings on that deal..... The Nascar rules state that NO part shall be used during practice,qualifying or during a race unless it has be approved by Nascar. So if Jeff and Ray were using an experimental chasis during a race without the approval of Nascar,,they were in a sense cheating....... Man did I just say that about my driver ???.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? Thats the thing, in NASCAR, there is blatant cheating, and there is testing the boundaries so to speak, a team might try something that isn't necessarily against the rules spelled out in the mysterious NASCAR rule book, so when they get caught, it isn't a matter of points or money, it's a "Don't bring this back" kinda deal, I can remember a couple more instances when Ray was crew chief, one, remember when the wheel went flying off the car during a race, because it was aluminum instead of steel, the other being during speedweeks, well, NASCAR says you have to have the restrictor plate right, but the rule book said nothing about the air filter, well, Ray took a few sections outta the air filter to ease airflow through there, NASCAR didn't cotton to it, I can't remember if they got a fine or not. I love reading about stuff teams get caught with at Daytona, Michael Waltrip had a plastic sheet with window net attached to it so air wouldn't flow into the car at Daytona, and man I wish I could remember who this was, the same year at Daytona some guy had a deal rigged up in the trunk of the car that would raise and lower the spoiler, how they planned to get away with that one I have no idea. From what I heard at work from my co-worker/fellow Gordon fan, that Mike Helton went and checked the rear end height himself after the race and eveything was fine, but he also told the crew chiefs not to bring those shocks back to the track, so........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? OH ! I definately agree Slugo, It's a regular thing trying to get away with something that is either borderline or not quite legal... This is nothing new to NASCAR that's for sure..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABuckSlayer Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? I heard this morning that after the shocks "settled" the car was back to the right height. Sounds like some suspicious shocks were put on that car. I don't like that deal. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? [ QUOTE ] I heard this morning that after the shocks "settled" the car was back to the right height. Sounds like some suspicious shocks were put on that car. I don't like that deal. Eric [/ QUOTE ] On that car ???... ,,,,There is where the probelm lyes.....There were 6 cars involved it just so happens 2 of them were Hendrick cars,,,,but all of them were chase cars..... I think this is why NASCAR is keeping this one a little hush,hush like Chrud has said..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texastrophies Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? Here is the article that is on NASCAR.com site Shocks run by Johnson, Busch bring rule change Controversial shocks were within rules at Dover; assembly is issue By Marty Smith, NASCAR.COM September 30, 2005 05:14 PM EDT (21:14 GMT) TALLADEGA, Ala. - The premier garage debate Friday at Talladega Superspeedway centered on suspect shocks run by Hendrick Motorsports teammates Jimmie Johnson and Kyle Busch en route to a 1-2 finish last weekend at Dover International Speedway. How can NASCAR allow Johnson and Busch to retain their respective finishes when their cars initially checked in too high during post-race inspection? Because according to most garage personalities asked, including NASCAR officials, neither team technically did anything wrong. According to Nextel Cup director John Darby, both cars' shocks were well within the rulebook guidelines and passed post-race inspection when given ample time for the shocks to settle into resting position. "There's nothing wrong with what they were doing," said Todd Berrier, crew chief for Kevin Harvick's Chevrolet. "We were all available to do the same thing. Fundamentally it's pretty easy to do, you've just got to be willing to work it all out. "And actually, I don't really think it's fair to take something away from somebody that's not blatantly doing something wrong." Rules change forthcoming Though NASCAR deemed the Nos. 48 and 5 fit to retain their finishing positions at Dover, the sanctioning body also felt strongly enough to confiscate the shocks. And after studying them for a week in their Concord, N.C., Research and Development Center have chosen to introduce a rules change. Darby said at some point this weekend the sanctioning body will issue a bulletin laying out new shock guidelines. Darby wouldn't specify what differences were forthcoming, but Berrier gave a clue. "Last year when they made a rule, people were running a lot of gas pressure in the shocks, and NASCAR was deeming that dangerous - 1,000 pounds, 600 pounds. So they backed it to 175 (pounds)," Darby said. "Now they're going to back it to 75. "I have a good relationship with John (Darby), and John told me that, after a really short amount of time, they were as legal as anybody else out there. If that's the case, then there shouldn't be a rules change." Yet one is coming. So the Nos. 48 and 5 teams were legal, but close enough to illegal to produce a rules change? "From a rules standpoint, these are the facts: the cars passed post-race inspection Sunday night," Darby said. "In regards to the shock absorbers themselves, after being tested and disassembled, all the parts and pieces are well within the confines of the rule book. "However, the shock build -- the assembly of the parts and what the shock is intended to do with that build -- is not within in the spirit and intent of the shock absorber rule. "Simply put, we prefer the shock absorbers are used for shock absorbers, which is a device that controls the frequency of a spring, not to be a spring assist or jack." Without being specific, Darby said one car checked in an eighth-of-an-inch low, while the other was a quarter-inch low. But it wasn't post-race inspection that led NASCAR to confiscate the shocks. "It was a little bit of post-race inspection, but watching the cars on the racetrack it was obvious that the car was traveling in a downward motion as most cars do," Darby said. "Every shock builder in the garage knows exactly how to do what those two teams built. The difference is, especially last Sunday, is there were 41 teams that understand what the spirit and intent of shock absorber rules are and two that may or may not have understood it, but chose to do it differently." So why no penalty? "Threaten me and you'll not get a penalty," Darby said. "Put a bullet in my head and you'll get a penalty. Without clear-cut evidence that proves the cars to be outside the rulebook, we don't have to (react.)" Chasers question decision Some Nextel Cup Series competitors were jealous of Johnson's technological advantage, while others questioned the validity of NASCAR's post-race inspection procedures. "That is the coolest part about racing -- looking at the rules and finding a way to bend them a little bit," Jamie McMurray said. "I think that is really cool and I am disappointed we didn't find that out. We do not work on projects like that. That is not just something we focus on, and in my opinion, we should." Ryan Newman and Greg Biffle, both in the Chase for the Nextel Cup alongside Johnson, were a bit more critical. "It all depends on what mood the inspectors are in," Newman said. "And I say that because there are times when we'll go through and they'll let us work on the car in the house to make it right before a race or qualifying or something like that. "So, there are times when they'll let you work on it, and there are times when they say, 'Go back in line and fix it.' I guess it's maybe just a gray area that they caught. I'll commend them on the fact that what they did was smart as far as what they did on the racetrack. "But when they didn't meet the rules coming back to the house after the race, then it isn't fair anymore. And even if he waits an extra half-hour or whatever it was, it's still not fair." To Newman's point, Darby said he is certain NASCAR's inspection process is viable, and that cars are often sent through the height sticks multiple times during post-race inspection. "It didn't pass the first time through, and I didn't see anything in the rule book that says, 'Cars will be given three opportunities to be made legal as they come through the house," Newman said. "Obviously, NASCAR is going to make some kind of decision as far as shocks or the process, but it's a little late for nine other teams right now." Biffle added, "If you guys remember, the same two race cars were docked points the third race of the season at Las Vegas. There's nothing different that happened at Dover that didn't happen there. Their cars were both too high in the tech. "They settled out, supposedly. I was not there so I don't know but our team engineer was there and has no reason to tell me any different. He said when both cars rolled up on the grid and they put the height sticks on they were too high and they took pictures of them too high. "Shortly thereafter the car settled down some, therefore they're legal. Right in the rule book, clearly, 'any device or anything that alters the height of the car beside the jack bolt,' which you put the thing down in and turn and raises and lowers the car, 'is illegal.' But let the general public or whoever make their own deduction from there." Ultimately, Berrier says the point is moot. "Everybody in this garage is smart enough to know if they're an eighth-of-an-inch high and we're all (complaining) about that, then we're a bunch of wimps and crybabies that are doing the wrong job," Berrier said. "Because there ain't an eighth-of-an-inch that's beat any of us." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted September 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? In a nutshell... The shocks go out, but don't go back in fast. So, when they hit a bump and go out, rather than come back down, they keep the rear jacked up and air on the rear blade and a ton more downforce on the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? [ QUOTE ] To Newman's point, Darby said he is certain NASCAR's inspection process is viable, and that cars are often sent through the height sticks multiple times during post-race inspection. "It didn't pass the first time through, and I didn't see anything in the rule book that says, 'Cars will be given three opportunities to be made legal as they come through the house," Newman said. "Obviously, NASCAR is going to make some kind of decision as far as shocks or the process, but it's a little late for nine other teams right now." Biffle added, "If you guys remember, the same two race cars were docked points the third race of the season at Las Vegas. There's nothing different that happened at Dover that didn't happen there. Their cars were both too high in the tech. [/ QUOTE ] So if I take Newmans and big mouth Biffles comments correctly they themselfs would have liked the docking of 25 points and a big fine for their illegal cars..... I like how Biffle takes every oppertunity to knock Hendrick cars....But yet neglicted to mention that his own car was one of the ones caught right in the middle of this little scandal..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted October 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? I don't have a problem with what either said. Biffle may have said something about his car, but it wasn't put in the interview. I do agree 100% with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? Whats the confusion about Matt ?? Instead of Biffle spouting off about some elses car he should have been talking about his and his teammates,,,that were also illegal accordding to him... I would think if he made any statements about himself they would have been added to the article just as everyone elses was.... Heck like I said earlier,,,,dock em' all in points and fine the heck out of em'.......gray area or not, then discussion such as this one would be MUTE now wouldn't it ????? I think if Biffle and Newman knew that this was going to happen in this instance they would'nt be so gung HO happy to point fingers at other teams when they received their fines and point deductions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Re: 48 and 5 Fail Inspection...Again? Here's a little bit of a story from USA Today on Friday concerning the shocks. Waves over Johnson's shocks may bring change Answers to pressing questions entering Sunday's UAW-Ford 500 NASCAR Nextel Cup race at Talladega Superspeedway by USA TODAY's Chris Jenkins: Q: Has the "shock and awe" phase of Jimmie Johnson's championship bid ended? A: Well, the "shock" phase certainly seems to be over. Roush Racing president Geoff Smith said he expects NASCAR officials to issue a technical bulletin as early as Friday outlawing the trick shock absorbers used by Hendrick Motorsports teammates Johnson and Kyle Busch in their 1-2 finish Sunday at Dover International Speedway. Instead of soaking up bumps, as shocks normally are designed to do, Smith said the Hendrick cars' shocks were designed almost to work in reverse; every time they hit a bump, the shocks jacked up the car's rear end for about 15 seconds. Because cars encounter frequent bumps at Dover, the shocks apparently kept the Hendrick cars' tails elevated about an inch beyond what NASCAR rules allow for most of the race, directing more air to the cars' rear spoilers and creating extra aerodynamic "downforce" that helped the cars stick to the track. Cheating? Not exactly, Smith said. "It was clearly an ingenious engineering exercise, and they ought to be commended for their ingenuity," he said. Johnson's team declined comment through a spokesperson. This explains why the two Hendrick cars failed an initial technical inspection by NASCAR officials Sunday night but passed the maximum-height requirement after they "settled," as NASCAR spokesman Ramsey Poston explained this week. Officials confiscated the Hendrick cars' shocks after the race, along with shocks from four other cars. Smith expects NASCAR to prohibit all teams from using such shocks beginning with the Oct. 9 race at Kansas Speedway. The Hendrick shocks wouldn't help in this weekend's race because downforce isn't a major concern at Talladega and teams typically try to get their cars as low to the ground as possible without violating NASCAR's minimum height requirements. Smith figures that Busch, a rookie, has been testing the system all season. "That didn't show up for a championship (contender) the day before Dover," Smith said. "That required a lot of effort, a lot of testing." Penske Racing president Don Miller, meanwhile, wondered why the Hendrick cars apparently were given a second chance to pass officials' maximum-height measurement. "All I can say is, if it comes in as too high, it should be black and white," Miller said. Said Poston, via e-mail: "When the (No.) 48 went up on the platform, it was initially high, but in a matter of seconds the car settled and it made the required height. Absolutely no one made an adjustment to the car; however, as often is the case, an inspector was under the car but did not touch it. The 48 only made one trip through inspection." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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