bowhunt101 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 What is your take on cowhorns/spikebucks and QDM???? Do you think it is good to take them out or not???? I dont know one way or the other honestly so if I wanna shoot one I do and if I dont wanna shoot it thats good to Ill pass him up such as I did today and it payed off big for me........ Just wondering you fellas takemeasy and have a goodseason but I do believe that if you shoot all the small bucks you will never have big bucks so I usually just wait on the big bucks and it payed off today........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Re: your take???? if you are looking at it from a pure QDM stand point then antler size never plays a roll in your harvesting decision. QDM is about having a healthy deer herd and healthy land habitat. It doesn't matter if the 2 1/2 year old buck is a spike or a 135 class 8 pointer--it's still considered a young buck. I also don't believe that culling for genetic traits is beneficial in a free ranging herd---in a fenced in operation yes--but not fair chase deer. Now not considering QDM I don't see any point in shooting a 1.5 year old spike unless your just wanting to shoot a deer. I don't believe in once a spike always a spike---I see quite a few young spikes and have never seen a mature spike (>2.5y)--if once a spike always a spike was true I would believe I would see mature spikes! If you want to see/shoot big bucks then you need to pass on the young ones! todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Re: your take???? [ QUOTE ] It doesn't matter if the 2 1/2 year old buck is a spike or a 135 class 8 pointer--it's still considered a young buck. [/ QUOTE ] Right, but which one of those two will be the bigger buck next year? And the next, and the next? And which set of genetics would you prefer to see passed on to the next generation? Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of "once a spike, always a spike" Nazi's, but I do believe that if you want to intensively manage your herd, even a free ranging one, you can influence future generations by selectively removing the younger bucks that don't show as much potential in the form of smaller antlers. It's certainly not an exact science, especially considering that half of the genetics come from the doe. And it's not a short term solution. Many ranches don't see positive results for 4 or 5 years. But on those ranches where selective culling has been ongoing for 10 to 15 years, it's uncommon to see yearlings that are less that 6 pointers, and many are 8's. Some of those ranches have taken their selective harvest process to the point where ANY buck with less than 6 points is immediately taken out as a "cull". Again folks, please remember that we're talking about 10 - 15 years of intense management before reaching that level. But it can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Re: your take???? I agree with what has been said here...you cant shoot a mature buck if you killed him at 1 and 1/2..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaskMan Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Re: your take???? A walleye that hits the frying pan at 2 lbs will never be a 10 lber, just like a buck taken young will never be a big buck. Persoanlly I think way too much thought has been put into "culling" deer. Remember not everywhere can you selectively harvest deer you feel inferior, some places only allow one buck per year. There is absolutely no culling of deer at all in Canada yet despite all of the genetics out there we consistently turn out big deer, the reason.....our bucks have the highest age class of anywhere in the world. Lots of old bucks = lots of big bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunt101 Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Re: your take???? "A walleye that hits the frying pan at 2 lbs will never be a 10 lber, just like a buck taken young will never be a big buck. " That is exactly what I am trying to stick into these boys around here shooting bucks with halfinches of horn sticking out of their head!!!! Oh well maybe one day they will figure out that the big bucks where once small bucks and you cant kill a big buck unless you let the small bucks walk........ My theory is let the small buck walk so it can be a big buck next season, and shoot a doe........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest La_Biologist Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Re: your take???? I agree with the texan. I dont believe in taking young bucks but then again I don't want bucks that have less potential as others the same age breeding does. I also dont believe in once a spike always a spike, but I do believe they will ultimately lack what others the same age will have. I have seen mature spikes. Most deer that were spikes though will eventually develope better antlers but like i said not as developed as deer that developed better earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJL Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Re: your take???? I believe that the answer lies in the general makeup of the population that resides in your area. If you got too many does..thin them out. If you're seeing alot of spikes and forkhorns........take a "scrub" for the freezer. If there's a nice eight pointer that keeps coming around...........let him grow......Providing that the next guy does the same, you'll be alright. Alot of the "QDM" stuff depends on "Where" and with "Whom" we are hunting. If you can find a local where everyone hunts the same it really can work. But, throw in a couple of "wack'em and stack'em guys , and it can be trying to say the least. Best of luck JJL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thayer Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Re: your take???? You cannot affect the genetic traits of deer in a free ranging enviroment. Bucks and does travel way too much. Normal ranges for does is a square mile or more, bucks can travel over 20 miles in a search for hot does. You can't change nature, you can take a scrub or two to make yourself feel like you are doing something, but unless you have a fence to keep out genetically inferior animals out...you can't change the genetics. It really is just a product of your area. Habitat changes, food plot enhancements, and herd balancing will help out more that shooting a scrub buck. That scrub buck could turn out to be a monster nontypical! I would like to see guys take an obvious mature buck over a younger buck with great antlers. Let those deer get pot bellies, sway backs and full necks, you will reap many rewards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Re: your take???? [ QUOTE ] You cannot affect the genetic traits of deer in a free ranging enviroment. [/ QUOTE ] Just don't tell that to the Texas Parks and Wildlife Dept guys (our DNR). They've been setting rules and regs over the past several years to do that exact thing! [ QUOTE ] bucks can travel over 20 miles in a search for hot does [/ QUOTE ] Man, you got yourself some travelin' deer there dude! Now I can see a buck walking 20 miles in a day, but not in a straight line. He might cover 20 miles chasing a hot doe around in circles. I always thought the area of West Texas I hunt had some of the most travelin' deer, but the fartherest distance apart I've personally seen one in a day is about 4 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thayer Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Re: your take???? Those mileage figures come from radio collared deer in Pennsylvania. Gary Alt was studying the travel patterns and some deer would travel up to 20 miles per day. Usually 4 miles or so would be the average. It just shows you that you might have some pretty good genetics in you area and one little scrub from the next county can come in a spoil some good does, happens all the time guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Re: your take???? Most spikes and forkhorns we see are young late born 1 1/2 year old deer, however we really do not see many spikes. A very low percentage of the 1 1/2 year olds are spikes around here. I do not shoot any 1 1/2 year old deer on my property anymore. I try to hold out for the 3 1/2 year olds or will shoot does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Re: your take???? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You cannot affect the genetic traits of deer in a free ranging enviroment. [/ QUOTE ] Just don't tell that to the Texas Parks and Wildlife Dept guys (our DNR). They've been setting rules and regs over the past several years to do that exact thing! [/ QUOTE ] Texan---what type of regulations are enacted that aim for changing the genetic traits. I can see regulation changes that will develop both a healthier herd and habitat but would find it difficult to make regulations aimed at changing genetic characteristics of the Texas deer herd. todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Re: your take???? It isn't statewide yet, but in a number of counties they've implemented regs to encourage the taking of spikes. Basically, you get an extra tag that can only be used on a deer with at least one unbranched antler. There are also doe and spike only special seasons in most of South Texas. This has been an ongoing project for TPWD quite a few years, and so far, the results in every area that it has been tried have been 100% positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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