QDMAworks4me Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 I have been passing up small bucks for about 5 years now and have seen a real drastic change in the bucks that I see on our property. I spend a lot of time talking to people about hunting and many people feel that antler restrictions would be a benifit where I live. I truly believe that it would benifit our hunting here in New York and we would be able to harvest bigger bucks while shooting a number of does to get the buck to doe ratio where it really should be. How many hunters that live in New York state would be interested in having antler restrictions in New York? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? I think it's a good thing if your goal is to increase the opportunity to take a mature buck. Here's a couple of articles on it... http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20050131b http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/outdoors/tompkins/3124327 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgbennett6 Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? MMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheDanishDanger Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? Yeah, I'm here in New York for college and it's been really poor hunting for bucks up here. This state definitely needs to have an antler restriction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckNrut Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? Mature buck meat is tough, and what do you do after the doe numbers are in check? "Pray" for a DMP? Everyone likes hunting mature animals (for trophies), and I do hunt (sometimes) on QDM properties, but I would prefer this remain a "landowner's choice" state. Restrictions on state land, I could live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtBowhunter Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? Y'all will see how well it works in the next few years. Just hope your state officials pay attention to how ours goes here in Vt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6sixpoint_nobrows Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? best thing to do is just set your own restrictions if the area you live in doesnt have any, i would pass on anything that doesnt have at least 4 points on one side, or 120's or bigger...good luck~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagleboy Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? Currently there are two areas with antlers restrictions in Ny. I believe its a pilot study. Hopefully it will help the deer reach maturity so we can shoot mature deer. I just hope that the "weekend warriors" that come up look before they shoot. Some of these guys adopted the phases "brown is down." I also hope that the DEC strictly enforces the antler restriction and a penalty for any deer under the restriction. I believe the restriction is at least three points on one side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? Yes there are antler restrictions in areas 3J and in 3C. I went to 3 of DEC's meeting around the state last jan and feb. Besides the changes that happened, antler restrictions were discussed and a year round yote season. The year round yote season was shot down immediately, DEC says the yote season is long enough. Yotes decimate the deer herd in sullivan county. Everyone but a few in the room(100+) at the meeting I went to at Sullivan Comm Coll., voted in favor of AR. There were some meat hunters that said it was no good. Every deer I let pass, gets shot by someone in the bordering hunting camp. They have the philosophy of its brown its down. Its hard for me to compete with that. The private land rule, I guess is OK, but you don't need a law to make that happen on private land. Just tell all who hunt there not to shoot small bucks. I practice QDM where I bow hunt in bow only areas. In a gun area...if its more than a fork horn. If I shoot that spike, and my neighbor shoots a spike, then there are 2 young deer that are dead instead of my neighbor just killing one. That is the only way I get to practice QDM where I gun hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger-Hunter Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? I don't live in New York, but I hate to a see a little 4 pointer or small 6 taken anywhere. I've let them 3 pass in the last few years when I couldn't have taken a shot. It just makes sense to me. If I didn't have 10 grocery stores within a 2 mile radius it might be different, but the meat that's good is a doe - I hunt bucks for the challenge, the rack - I keep the buck meat for company and the meat I give away to friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMAworks4me Posted November 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? We only shoot bucks that have eight and we get DMAPs from the DEC for our 500 acres. We have about 4000 acres in neighboring properties that practice the same thing. I know that it works and want other people to realize how WELL it works. I shot a nice eight point opening morning and have been back in the woods hunting for my doe, I have seen three shooters in the five times I have been in the woods. It would be such a great program in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelyman34 Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? im from new york and i wish we would.like the only bucks i relli see are lil 3's or 4 point bucks and ocassionaly i see a nice 8.my uncle lives in pa and they just got the antler restrition a few years back and he said there are some mega deer around his place now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western NY bowhunter Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? QDMA: Where in NY are you located? I live/hunt in Steuben County. I'm all for QDM...but I'm kinda undecided about AR's. We have always had numbers of deer here in the western Finger Lakes Region, but as with most areas of the state, the incredible amounts of hunting pressure really takes it's toll on the buck pop. It's unfortunate because this area is capable of producing some monsters. As for AR's, all I think that it will do is add to the harvest of 2.5 yr. olds which are still several years away for the "monster" age class. However, I guess that it is still better than killing off 80-90% of the yearlings annually. I don't believe that the principals of QDM can work on a statewide basis...but it is well suited for the situation that you're in where you've got access to a large chunk of private land with neighbors who also practice QDM. I wish that this was the case where I hunt. Here's an awesome example of what age can do to our NY bucks: A buddy of mine (not the guy in the photo) killed this buck during opening week of gun season in 2002 here in Steuben County...22-pt., grossed 190", aged at 4 1/2. I saw this deer several times that summer and have over an hour of velvet footage of him feeding in a cloverfield. During the summer of 2001 I saw this buck twice...he was a mainframe 10-pt with lots of mass, long browtines and several kickers. I'd guess he woulda grossed around 140" typical...meaning that he added close to 50" in one year! A buddy of mine also has his sheds from the previous year at 2.5...heavy 110-115 class 10-pt. with long browtines, short tines and a couple of tiny stickers less than 1/2" in length. I sure would love to see what this guy would have looked like in 2003 at 5 1/2. I have no doubts that he would have grossed over 200". With this in mind....no not every buck will reach these proportions...but just knowing that bucks like this are possible in this area has giving me the incentive to change my ways and start letting the little guys go. Good luck tomorrow to all you NYers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMAworks4me Posted November 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? I am located in Northern New York, but my uncle actually owns land in Steuben county. My cousin is actually in the New York State big buck clubs record book for a buck he shot with a bow three years ago on my uncles property. The buck is amazing and has a 23 inch inside spread he was 4 1/2 years old. He is also in the New York State big buck club for the buck he got last year on our property here in Northern New York that deer had a 19 inch spread and was 4 1/2 years old. I think that antler restrictions would save some of the young bucks but if New York does something like a buck must have at least three points on one side there are many bucks at a year and a half that have an 8 point rack. Those that want to carry on with QDM and let those bucks go and let them get to be mature will have great success. The problem I have is that many of the people that shoot spike horns and 4 points do not view them as trophies. If you are going to shoot a buck let them get older and shoot yourself a doe. The buck that you have in the picture is very impressive and I think that if NY state went through with a state wide antler restriction you would see many more deer that are in the same class as that one. As you have said I am lucky enough to have a large piece of property and I feel that this system really works by letting the little buks pass. Many 2 1/2 year old bucks are trophies and it would be up to the property owners to let the bucks that they have grow to be monsters or just let them grow to be 2 1/2 but at least you are giving a buck the oppurtunity to show some of there potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtBowhunter Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? So far this year, we've already seen more big bucks being shot here in Vermont, and I'm sure it's because they just implemented the Antler Restriction. I know that sounds funny, but folks are being forced to pass up the spikes that they usually would have shot right away, and they're spending more time out in the woods and seeing bigger bucks that they're shooting. I've seen some huge 8 points being reported and I know of at least 1 P&Y buck that was shot my my cousin during archery season. So far we've been seeing the upside, and I can only imagine that it will get better in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoyt03 Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? I'm all for the antler restrictions here in PA, but this herd reduction absolutely stinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMAworks4me Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? [ QUOTE ] and.... It is only horns, cant eat em. Enjoy hunting.... Would be nice to see restrictions on how many buck tags are handed out, the lack of restrictions on buck harvesting is hurting the deer herd. I know I have seen it here. Ask any farmer what happens when you have 30 cows, 5 come into heat at the same time, and one bull is out there trying to service them. He will miss some. Jeff [/ QUOTE ] In my opinion you would accomplish the type of deer take that you are talking about by restricting the antlers to a specific thing. Not every buck that people will see in the woods can be shot. Therefore making the buck take go down and creating the opportunity to see more deer and for more deer to be bred like you are saying. You could also take more does out of the NY state deer heard and create a healthier deer heard with more food to feed the ones that survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? People in New York will kill the small ones anyway. There are too many hunters in NY that do not tag there deer anyway. It makes me sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMAworks4me Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? [ QUOTE ] People in New York will kill the small ones anyway. There are too many hunters in NY that do not tag there deer anyway. It makes me sick. [/ QUOTE ] There may be a lot of people that do not follow the rules but we have a majority of the people around my area that do and I guess if people know law breakers maybe this will give them incentive to turn them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtBowhunter Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? [ QUOTE ] People in New York will kill the small ones anyway. There are too many hunters in NY that do not tag there deer anyway. It makes me sick. [/ QUOTE ] This is the same argument that poeple use in every state that is trying to pass an antler restriction. A lot of folks said that hear, and we haven't seen any of that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WvBowhunterKE Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? I think antler restictions are a good thing.. means bigger bucks for the next nears to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? Playing devil's advocate for a minute, I am wondering about the potential effects of AR vs. what I consider to be the most endangering factor in hunting's future ....... lack of hunting access. One might think that as we continue to heap more and more restrictions on exactly what KIND of buck that can legally be harvested, landowner/hunters are going to get more and more possessive of the fewer legally eligible bucks on their property. Quite possibly the effect could be like a "reduced deer herd situation" where landowners begin to lock up their property to protect the only legal buck on their property that they will be eligible to shoot. Perhaps this is one of those "unintended consequences" that have been rolling around in my head ever since I heard of the idea of AR and other super-restrictive QDM type laws. It's kind of a subtle effect that wouldn't be obvious until after the damage is done. Just a little something to think about before we all just go off blindly following the latest management fad. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? not all of us have the time to spend in the woods and wait for a big buck. when working monday through friday and some saturdays you cant be too picky. yea i have shotten some nice bucks including a 9 pt buck this year with an 18 inch inside spread that was only 2 1/2. im sorry but i dont get out much and i enjoy venison. i dont want antler restrictions. theres a small buck in front of me but i can shoot him and not have venison all year to enjoy, i dont think so. maybe if people in ny or anywhere stopped jacking deer at night or on the side of the road, everyone might see those bigger bucks also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? Shawn...I can see your arguement about not having enough time to hunt, and more or less taking any buck that came along due the time restrictions in the woods. There is some validity to that. Maybe I am so in favor of the AR's because I get plenty of time off every year to go bow, gun and muzzleloader hunting. I get to see many bucks and pass on most of them( unless he's a monster) until around halloween. The rut kicks in full steam and only the bigs boys are out playing. I passed literally on about 10 bucks(spikes, forks and small 6's) this bow season. I saw a injured buck walking on 3 legs. Had a perfect 4 pts on one side and a twisted downward spike with a browtine on the other side.(entered in Realtree contest team 5) I seen him all october and most of november. I did not see the 2 big 8's I have been holding out for, so I took this buck with the non typical rack. He was old 4-5 and by rights he should have been a 8 had he not been injured. I did more for the deer herd by harvesting that buck, than shooting a spike. Regardless of his genes, his leg will never be repaired, so he couldn't fight. He'll never breed and always grow a malformed rack due the rear leg injury. I had the opportunity to shoot smaller deer with perfect racks, but helped the herd. I can see where having NO time to hunt and AR's would mess things up a bit. I was lucky and I had options. Not everyone gets to hunt the same. We need more discussion on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 28, 2005 Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? I think Shawn has a good point about limited time afield. I also think there are a lot of other hunters in the same boat, maybe even most of them. So what happens when you start tinkering with their ability to have a satisfactory hunt by telling them that possibly all the bucks that they get to see, will be illegal to shoot? While we are watching the hunter population dwindle, is this really a good time to be limiting their ability to harvest a deer that they would normally be completely content with just so those of us with nearly unlimited time can have more larger racked bucks? In fact, legality aside, I believe it is contrary to hunter interest to belittle the achievements of those who harvest small bucks. Given their circumstances, that buck may represent a heck of an accomplishment, and this constant drumbeat about there being something wrong with a hunter who harvests such an animal, can only serve to drive more hunters out of the sport. In fact, particularly this year and last year, we have had a significant number of areas that are reporting extreme low deer populations with few deer of EITHER sex being seen. It is very possible that that little fork-horn might be the only deer some see all season. Is it right that we tell them that they must go scoreless because we want to experiment with bigger racks? One thing we had better recognize is that what we see in our own backyard is not necessarily the conditions across the state. What may be a good idea for some areas, may not be a very realistic thing for all areas. We had also better take a long look at what the negative outcomes of some of the wonderful ideas may be. That is why discussions of this type are so important. It allows us to think of all consequenses of actions that, on the surface, may seem like no-brainers. This is a good thread and I would like to see a lot more New Yorkers commenting on this topic. Doc Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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