QDMAworks4me Posted November 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? [ QUOTE ] not all of us have the time to spend in the woods and wait for a big buck. when working monday through friday and some saturdays you cant be too picky. yea i have shotten some nice bucks including a 9 pt buck this year with an 18 inch inside spread that was only 2 1/2. im sorry but i dont get out much and i enjoy venison. i dont want antler restrictions. theres a small buck in front of me but i can shoot him and not have venison all year to enjoy, i dont think so. maybe if people in ny or anywhere stopped jacking deer at night or on the side of the road, everyone might see those bigger bucks also. [/ QUOTE ] I was reading your post and it is good to hear your opinion but have you ever thought about the fact that you could shoot a doe instead of shooting a young buck? You say that you do not really care about the rack and you know as well as I do that there are more does in the woods than there are bucks. I have seen it happen and many people that I know that pass young bucks start to see a number of 2 1/2 year old buck in just a few years. In my opinion deer hunting is not just about killing everything I see it is about creating a better deer heard so it is more enjoyable to go out in the woods with the chance of seeing a lot of deer and some with very nice racks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMAworks4me Posted November 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? [ QUOTE ] I think Shawn has a good point about limited time afield. I also think there are a lot of other hunters in the same boat, maybe even most of them. So what happens when you start tinkering with their ability to have a satisfactory hunt by telling them that possibly all the bucks that they get to see, will be illegal to shoot? While we are watching the hunter population dwindle, is this really a good time to be limiting their ability to harvest a deer that they would normally be completely content with just so those of us with nearly unlimited time can have more larger racked bucks? In fact, legality aside, I believe it is contrary to hunter interest to belittle the achievements of those who harvest small bucks. Given their circumstances, that buck may represent a heck of an accomplishment, and this constant drumbeat about there being something wrong with a hunter who harvests such an animal, can only serve to drive more hunters out of the sport. In fact, particularly this year and last year, we have had a significant number of areas that are reporting extreme low deer populations with few deer of EITHER sex being seen. It is very possible that that little fork-horn might be the only deer some see all season. Is it right that we tell them that they must go scoreless because we want to experiment with bigger racks? One thing we had better recognize is that what we see in our own backyard is not necessarily the conditions across the state. What may be a good idea for some areas, may not be a very realistic thing for all areas. We had also better take a long look at what the negative outcomes of some of the wonderful ideas may be. That is why discussions of this type are so important. It allows us to think of all consequenses of actions that, on the surface, may seem like no-brainers. This is a good thread and I would like to see a lot more New Yorkers commenting on this topic. Doc Doc [/ QUOTE ] I have talked to many people that live in states with antler restrictions and at first there were people that did not believe that this would work but once they started seeing 140 class bucks in almost every part of the state they went from 80% of hunters in that state believing that it would work and enjoying going in the woods to about 95% of hunters enjoying it and believeing in it. Small bucks are trophies to some but everyone I know that shoots a small buck does not do much with the horns and many meat cutting shops around here throw out the horns because people just dont want them, you never see that with a bigger buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bghunter777 Posted November 28, 2005 Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] not all of us have the time to spend in the woods and wait for a big buck. when working monday through friday and some saturdays you cant be too picky. yea i have shotten some nice bucks including a 9 pt buck this year with an 18 inch inside spread that was only 2 1/2. im sorry but i dont get out much and i enjoy venison. i dont want antler restrictions. theres a small buck in front of me but i can shoot him and not have venison all year to enjoy, i dont think so. maybe if people in ny or anywhere stopped jacking deer at night or on the side of the road, everyone might see those bigger bucks also. [/ QUOTE ] I was reading your post and it is good to hear your opinion but have you ever thought about the fact that you could shoot a doe instead of shooting a young buck? You say that you do not really care about the rack and you know as well as I do that there are more does in the woods than there are bucks. I have seen it happen and many people that I know that pass young bucks start to see a number of 2 1/2 year old buck in just a few years. In my opinion deer hunting is not just about killing everything I see it is about creating a better deer heard so it is more enjoyable to go out in the woods with the chance of seeing a lot of deer and some with very nice racks. [/ QUOTE ] I can not agree more with you QDMAworks4me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted November 28, 2005 Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? qdma when in one sentence did i say i dont care about the racks? since that post i also shot a 8 pointer on the day after thanksgiving. and yes i do shoot does, when the state gives out dmp for those counties. and i dont just shoot everything, i let fawns walk. i think you just need to calm down about this antler restriction topic. you asked us all our opinions then you jump on them. you have a valid point but as doc said our hunter numbers in nys have dropped over 50,000 in the past 5 years i believe. right now we should concentrate on reviving this tradition we all love, and stop trying to make harder on those who love it. anyone who chooses to practice deer management is a great hunter thinking of the future. i wont shoot anymore bucks this year now and i am strictly going to be doe hunting, but till it becomes a law those who practice it still shall, but ill be trying to fill my freezer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2Hunt Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? QDMAworks4me has some very good points.I think with some help from the state of N.Y. we could all benefit from the practice of QDM.It would be great to sit in my stand and see shooter bucks and let them go waiting for a 130+ buck because we all practice QDM on the same playing field.I would be in total favor of pr's of four points per side.New York would be known for it's quality hunting for the first time after 1 year with pr's and a strong doe harvest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2Hunt Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? Shawn I am all for reviving tradition and introducing new hunters to the sport,it's a great idea.In my opinion though it is easier to get people interested when you can show them a good buck to shoot at. We can accomplish this by saving the 1 1/2 year old bucks from harvest and let them grow. I also am limited in my time hunting to just weekends and a few days off from work,but I shoot nice deer due to QDM practice because by letting this years yearling go I will see a nice buck next season and for seasons to come.Congradulations on your buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMAworks4me Posted November 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? [ QUOTE ] qdma when in one sentence did i say i dont care about the racks? since that post i also shot a 8 pointer on the day after thanksgiving. and yes i do shoot does, when the state gives out dmp for those counties. and i dont just shoot everything, i let fawns walk. i think you just need to calm down about this antler restriction topic. you asked us all our opinions then you jump on them. you have a valid point but as doc said our hunter numbers in nys have dropped over 50,000 in the past 5 years i believe. right now we should concentrate on reviving this tradition we all love, and stop trying to make harder on those who love it. anyone who chooses to practice deer management is a great hunter thinking of the future. i wont shoot anymore bucks this year now and i am strictly going to be doe hunting, but till it becomes a law those who practice it still shall, but ill be trying to fill my freezer. [/ QUOTE ] Shawn, I am not jumping on the topic as you say, I just do not like it when people post a topic and never get involved after that. I have heard you talk about the two nice bucks that you have gotten, you just seem to be more excited about them than any other deer you get. Imagine if you were able to get a nice buck like that almost every year, that is all I am saying. I have seen it work. Sorry if in some way I have offended you that was not my intention. As for calming down on this topic, that will never happen for me until it is passed and almost every hunter in our area of NY is looking for the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2Hunt Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? QDM is where it's at boys. Without it we would all still believe a spike will always be a spike and a doe should never be shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerClay Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? [ QUOTE ] This is a good thread and I would like to see a lot more New Yorkers commenting on this topic. Doc [/ QUOTE ] Ok Doc, you talked me into it. The reason I have not piped in aready is because QDMAWorks4Me works in my office and we have discussed before. Here is my spin on AR and please forgive me for taking the scenic route to my answer. Presently here in NY when you go to the supermarket to get a cut of beef you are probably getting holstein. You know...those black and white critters that are in almost every cow pasture. Now ask yourself, is Farmer Brown going to send his best 100 pound milker of to market to be slaughtered. Heck no! He keeps her because she is making money for him. What does go to market is every sick, old or diseased cow that isn't producing and God only knows what that cow has been injected with. Steroids or milk enhancers, you take a guess. I choose not to feed that to my family. I choose to give children the best and purest red meat availble, venison. Now QDM states that if I want venison for my freezer I should go shoot a doe. The problem here is that the DEC says I cannot shoot a doe because they are not giving doe permits in my DMU of 7M. Antler restriction says I now have to shoot a rack buck in order to feed my family. As the season progresses that becomes harder and harder as rack sized deer go nocturnal. Now I am very fortunate that I have plenty of time to hunt and I have a loving wife who allows me to go. However not everyone is that fortunate. I know of several hunters that only get 3 or 4 days to hunt each season. If a crotch passes in front of one of these hunters on the last day, he should be allowed to shoot that deer. He paid his license fees to harvest a deer, not a trophy deer. I need to put venison on the table. I could care less if it was crotch horn an eight point or a doe. But since the DEC says I cannot shoot a doe I will shoot what is available. It is my opinion that if you and your local landowners want to practive AR, go for it and have fun. However do not make it manditory that everyone play along. You do your thing and I'll do mine. And another thing. Why do we suddenly HAVE to change? I believe things have been working fine for the past 70+ years. Some people get small bucks and some get big bucks and some people go home empty handed. Why all of sudden does everyone have to kill big bucks? No one has answered that question yet? I believe QDM is being driven by big business and not biologists. If this was so important it would have been done yeeeeears ago. I can go on and on. But in the end I must ask why do I have to kill a rack buck just because you want to? Just because you are practicing QDM on your hill does not mean I have to if I am happy with what I am doing. Ranger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMAworks4me Posted November 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? Well I do understand where Ranger is coming from and it is good to hear your opinion and if you readers can imagine having two deer hunters in the same office makes for a lot of good stories and a few good discussions on our different beliefs. I just wanted to take a second to share a few things that I have learned on this topic that not only may the big businesses enjoy the benifits but as time has gone on biologists have learned more about the age structure and benifits of letting deer get older and controling the population to get it more balanced. When the sex ratio becomes more balanced and the number of older bucks increases and makes the older bucks avaliable for breeding, resulting in less stress on yearling bucks earlier and usually is a better rut where more does are bred. This uaually results in a better deer health and improved body weights due to the fact that the habitat has improved and this will also help other animals in the area. Its not just about the big horns to me its just about getting a stronger deer heard and a healthier deer heard, but I will be honest the big horns are a nice side affect I am in agreement with Ranger in the fact that if NY state does go with an AR that the doe permits will have to be more avaliable to a meat hunter. I am not going to sit here and tell anyone that I know everything that there is to know about hunting, but I will tell you that I am very excited about learning new things and I feel that this would be a great program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? [ QUOTE ] I am in agreement with Ranger in the fact that if NY state does go with an AR that the doe permits will have to be more avaliable to a meat hunter. [/ QUOTE ] Now, there is the crux of my whole disagreement with just arbitrarily rolling out AR across the entire state. As I understand it, QDM is about a whole lot more than just adjusting antlerless permits to satisfy hunters. It also involves balancing herds with the carrying capacity of local habitats. To be forced to increase doe permits soley because meat hunters need to have something to shoot at when antler restrictions are implemented, completely ignores the current populations and the habitat potentials. That's not management. For example, the DEC has already admitted that there are quite a few areas that have mild to severe population shortages. To go into these areas and increase antlerless permits simply because AR has caused a shortage of legitimate bucks would fall far short of anything I could call "quality management". Another thing that seems to escape people is that bucks come from does. If an already weakened deer herd is further decimated by increased permits, where do you suppose the bucks (mature or otherwise) are going to come from. Let's face it, there are areas that can support AR and there others that cannot. It is also true that the propriety of AR may change from year to year depending on herd size. Is an permanent AR rule across the state going to address that? We watch TV and see all these monster deer being harvested on these carefully controlled commercial ranches and somehow envision that a government agency can pull that off on a statewide level. Well, I got to say that those boys have got a whole lot more control of their herd and who shoots what and how many, and what the habitat consists of, and how much of what super-charged deer feed will be fed, than NY will ever come close to having. Listen to PA posts about herd reduction and AR and you will see both extremes of people who are happy with it and people who are on the verge of violence with their frustration. These kinds of spotty results don't surprise me a whole lot. One size does NOT fit all. It's time to realize that when a state puts in such restrictions, careful annual study has to be applied to ensure that that decision is proper for each WMU each year. Without putting in this kind of cautious planning and study, we may find AR being put into areas where it is completely inappropriate. We may also watch our hunter numbers continue to decline as a result of it. Don't let the stars of these TV shows cloud your judgement. An occasional shot of reality can sometimes save making some pretty poor decisions. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMAworks4me Posted December 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? Doc, I am not one of those people that has been clouded by TV. I have actually seen this program work. When I said that doe permits should be handed out to meat hunters I did not mean that the state should hand out tags without researching each zone, better than they do now!! But the problem with some New York hunters is they do not bother to report their deer harvest which makes the information colleceted incorect. Research is the key not only if AR's were implemented but it is key now. Our age structure and buck to doe ratio is out of wack in New York state. When you shoot 85 to 90 percent of yearling bucks you take out many of the breeding bucks the way the system is set up now. Before we did QDM on our property you saw many does walking around without fawns which means they did not get bred. Now that we have been managing our property almost every doe we see has two to three fawns, which means every doe is getting bred and the deer heard is getting healthier. We all know that NY state is doing some research with three areas, and it will be interesting to see what they find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? [ QUOTE ] i think you just need to calm down about this antler restriction topic. you asked us all our opinions then you jump on them. you have a valid point but as doc said our hunter numbers in nys have dropped over 50,000 in the past 5 years i believe. right now we should concentrate on reviving this tradition we all love, and stop trying to make harder on those who love it. anyone who chooses to practice deer management is a great hunter thinking of the future. i wont shoot anymore bucks this year now and i am strictly going to be doe hunting, but till it becomes a law those who practice it still shall, but ill be trying to fill my freezer. [/ QUOTE ] As for the number of hunters dropping. I don;t really care!!! The less hunters out their the more deer Iand other fellow hunters can shoot. We can't force people to hunt, especially in this ever increasing "leberal" state. Some of you guys do not get it when it comes to antler restrictions. I will try to explain it to you on an elementary level. If we have a 4 points on one side restriction, all of the bucks less than four points will live till the next year unless they surkum to the elements or cars. The number of total bucks will not decrease. They wil increase. Obviously, for the first couple of years, many hunters will be unsuiccessfull in killing a buck, just because those younger bucks will be below the limit. After we give those bucks time to grow they will all be over the 4 point limit. Instead of killing younger bucks every year we will be killing bigger bucks. We need to let the small ones grow!!!! It takes time for it to work but all of those small bucks will get bigger and then we can take them. The deer hunting quality in NY is just terrible. I am all for an antler restricion!!!! 150%!!!!! But NY has to increase the number of doe tags. I hunt in 7M where no doe tags have been given out, not even to landowners or veterans!!! I killed a doe with my bow this year, but their are not enough bow and/or muzzleloaders to balance it out. I see lots of does every time I go hunt. On opening morning for gun I saw 43 does and one "single spike" buck. And the DEC says there are not enough does in my unit. During archery, I see does all of the time. NYS's DEC does not have a clue on what they are doing!!!! To get the bucks moving, we have to kill off does so the bucks have to chase them to mate. Right now, all the bucks have to do, is bed down and wait till an estrous doe passes!!! This is why we do not see any bucks in my area, they have no need to chase the does, they are always around. It's like a male going to college at an "all girls school". If you can't get laid in this environment, there is either something wrong with you or you are gay!!!! What bothers me most about our DEC, is that this year they started a pilot program in a couple of units, to see how QDM will work. They are so arrogant that they can't even research other states to see how it works. They have to see for themselves. Just thinking about how NY is run when it comes to deer hunting, pisses me off!!!! Sorry for the uproar, but this topic got me going!!! --Rossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2Hunt Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? I am all for AR in N.Y.S and for QDM practices to be implied. The main problem is the enforcement of the policies set.The DEC has taken a lot of heat over this subject for reasons beyond their control. At a QDM meeting I sat and listend to a DEC official for 2 hrs. As for the DEC they support QDM and AR's but they said that their hands are tied by politics.The DEC is much more than game officers now.They are more into spill control and stuff like that they don't have time to do what they want for game in the state. That official also stated the state has cut biologist and officers from the DEC because they need more office people and the budget is too small.If everyone remembers our liscence fees went way up a couple years ago and it was because the state was going to add biologist and officers. Where did this money go? All I know is fat cats are getting richer and our deer herd is getting worse. I think a little less blame should be placed on the DEC and the sportsmen, clubs and everyone else should go to our legislators for help. THis is how the AR program wsa started in the three areas in our state,not by the DEC. As for the doe tags issued, with the lack of biologist in our state they can't get an accurate count of deer in an area and herd qualitiy. They depend on sportsman reporting all deer taken and public forums to get an idea of whats going on. Too many deer are taken and not reported. The reason for reporting deer is if there is a good doe take in that area chances are there is a lot of deer and they will issue more tags untill the numbers go back down.So if we as sportsman want antler restrictions and a quality deer herd we have to turn to the gov't not the DEC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? [ QUOTE ] As for the number of hunters dropping. I don;t really care!!! The less hunters out their the more deer Iand other fellow hunters can shoot. [/ QUOTE ] This statement is far too short sighted. Hunting has become a political football which has only been saved or enhanced due to the advantage of having a significant voting block that politicians cannot ignore. The continued decline in hunters may not result in much change in our lifetime (emphasize MAY), however it is much to selfish an attitude to not care about the future and health of the sport for our descendants. Anyone who thinks that hunting can survive without a healthy number of participants is just not living in reality. Understand that there are all kinds of people making it their sworn duty to get rid of hunting. Also understand that every year there are increasing competitors for land use that do not necessarily correlate to what we hunters would like to see. Also, understand that the DEC continues to get weaker and weaker as other businesses and political forces continue to grow. Their ability and willingness to continue to champion hunter interests or even wildlife interests as opposed to all the new competing non-hunting interests that they are now charged to represent, is a direct result of the number of hunters they represent. There is also the issue of DEC funding which is largely due to hunter expenditures. We are asking them to go off on all these new grand experiments and now we are telling them that we don't care if their resources continue to decline because of the decline of hunting participants? How serious can any of our complaints or suggestions be taken if we don't even care that that the sport is showing significant signs of dying out? I am also curious as to how all these does will get shot that you want to harvest if the hunter population continues its decline. Apparently there are indeed areas of underharvest around the state. If these areas cannot handle adequate harvests with the hunters they have, how will fewer hunters help those situations? Yes, in the short term, hunting less pressured land would be kind of pleasant indeed. And if I was only concerned with my lifetime, such a shortage of hunters might be welcome. But, if any of us give a darn about what we leave future generations of hunters, we had better start thinking about how our actions impact the hunter population and what the consequences of a diminishing hunter population means to the sport itself. [ QUOTE ] NY has to increase the number of doe tags. [/ QUOTE ] This is a statement that could only be made by someone who has experienced hunting every acre of every WMU across the state. Experience on one area of one WMU does not validate any such conclusion for the entire state. The fact is that you cannot even speak for your entire WMU. This is one of the problems with a lot of the conclusions that show up on this thread. Everyone is assuming that what they see on their own little hunting area applies to every hunting area across the state. Believe me ..... There is no one here that has that kind of insight on the herd and habitat across the entire state, or even a single WMU. Personally, I have to believe a significant percentage of those hunters that have been reporting deer scarcities, and I have to believe that there are a significant number of places where deer overharvest has taken place. And, I will not engage in the kind of arrogance that says that these people aren't seeing deer because they don't know how to hunt as well as I do, like I have seen on some of the replies. Those telling us that they are seeing shortages are the people who have walked the ground, not me. That particular kind of statement really gets me going because there are all kinds of people proposing all these wonderful things for all of NYS without really having a clue as to how it interplays with the realities of each area. That's like me trying to suggest to Florida how to manage their deer herd without having any of the facts about that state, its herd or its habitat. You must agree that that would be pretty silly. [ QUOTE ] What bothers me most about our DEC, is that this year they started a pilot program in a couple of units, to see how QDM will work. They are so arrogant that they can't even research other states to see how it works. They have to see for themselves. [/ QUOTE ] I think you are ASSUMING that they are not researching other states. I think you are also assuming that a decent level of research from other states exists. I also think you are assuming that what works in one state or one set of habitat conditions is automatically transferrable to another state or set of habitats. You are also assuming that hunter attitudes are the same from one state to another. You are also assuming that other states are not encountering some problems with their implementations. Personally, I am happy that the state has taken this cautious, go-slow attitude. It shows that they are at least trying to do something right. Let's not be too fast to condemn them for screwing some things up and then turning around and condemn them for trying to do something in the right way without the mistakes of rushing in and flailing away at the latest management fad. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckshot Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? I agree alot with what ranger and Doc say. Iv'e been hunting deer now for 30yrs and out of all the bucks I shot probably only 3 would be considered trophy size by most hunters.All the rest would be what most of you call "scrub bucks".But they're all special to me and all those "scrub buck" antlers I have tacked up on the wall have a story about a hunt that I will never forget. I admit shooting a big buck is more exciting than shooting a small one but I think when shooting big bucks becomes commonplace then it won't be so exciting anymore. All I'm saying is I don't need to shoot a big buck every year to enjoy deer hunting.My 1st prioity is to put meat on the table not a big set of antlers on the wall. I think the DEC has more important issues to deal with 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? [ QUOTE ] I believe in antler restrictions and also believe that the doe population needs to be reduced. [/ QUOTE ] Again, a reply that implies statewide actions based on local observations. I would really have no opposition to these comments if it was stated that you are talking only about your particular hunting area. [ QUOTE ] In the 2 weeks that the NY gun season has been open I've seen 21 deer. Last year in 10 days of hunting i saw 3 deer. [/ QUOTE ] So, the results of your scientific study show that your herd grew seven-fold in one year. Do you really think that's what happened? Well, even if you do think that your herd has taken a huge leap, do you believe that has happened across the state? Do you even think that has happened across your particular WMU? This is the danger of expanding our observations to apply everywhere. Do you even entertain the possibility that there are areas that have severe deer shortages? Do you think that harvesting more does would be appropriate in those areas? Do you think that AR would be welcomed by all hunters if that spike became the only deer (either sex) they might see during the entire season? How do you suppose that AR might impact license sales if hunters encountered situations where the only deer they see has been deemed illegal to harvest? You see, there are negative consequences to some of these "dream schemes" if they are implemented in the wrong way in the wrong places. It takes more than a handful of principles hatched out at carefully controlled private ranches to come up with this imaginary state with huge bucks behind every tree. There are also the practicalities of resources and management capabilities to consider. There is also the issue of how the plan looks when the herd conditions and sizes are not quite as nice in one spot as it is in another. No, there is no "one-size-fits-all" solutions that will turn the entire state into a haven for monster book-bucks. And, it is kind of dangerous to think there is. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? Antler restrictions is surely a hot topic. I think before we all go nuts in either direction we should see how the pilot study in the three counties is doing. Has anyone from this area responded to this on this forum.? We should also keep in mind it was NOT Dec. who started this idea, it was a coalition of sportsmen's clubs from that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? Whitetail- I think you would be surprised how many of these kinds of posts really are talking about proposals for the entire state based on local observations. That's why it is a good idea to clarify. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? I have a great idea. Suppose 2006 NY state alloes NO male deer to be taken at all. This would solve a lot of problems for everybody. Instead of a buck tag you would receive a tag for a doe with your license. You would still be eligible for a doe tag in your area of choice as your now. The so called MEAT hunters who cannot not survive without vension in their freezer would be happy. Those wanting to see young bucks grow up would be happy. Our buck to doe ratio would come into line. WIN...WIN...WIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2Hunt Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? I can't believe you even went there. Clean off the chopping block boys because LETMGROW just put his head on it. LOL I hope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? I don't know if DEC makes changes based on political views. I do know that they are a a public agency and are accountable. Sure DEC is more than game control and they are being pulled in every direction to solve environment problems. The earn a buck program sounds like a good thing. I feel one of the best management tools are getting people to report their deer. The DECALS system to report game I'm sure is efficient, but many do not take time out to make that call. When it used to be a postcard to drop in the mailbox, I think more people reported their game that way. In the area I gun hunt in 3H, if a buck larger than 6 is taken its a miracle...if you take one larger than that, many people are gonna come out to see that deer. I got lucky in '01 with shooting a nice 8 up there. I know many guys up at the deer butcher who take about 5-6 deer a year! They shoot anything and everything... 3H almost made it into the antler restriction category last year. It was discussed , but not implemented. There are NO doe tags for that area this year, and what do you think people are shooting if you can't harvest does? Spikes and buttons. You have to see the marginal spikes that are brought in to the butcher up there. Some no bigger than your pinkie The meat hunter who needs the meat to feed the family is not even gonna wait until hunting season to kill deer. If you add the costs associated with hunting, deer meat is not cheap. The gun hunter shares the least expense. Most hunt with the same gun for many years, and what does a box of shells cost? About as much as one expandible broadhead sans the arrow, which is like another $7-8. I am going to do whatever I can to help the deer herd in my area. REGARDLESS of what others do. If we, on my 62acre peice do not shoot little bucks, then that land will be safe zone for the deer, which we drive the last week of the season(muzzleload). That way, on the drive, no one has more than one shot and that shot has to count! Safety and marksmanship! If 50% of the deer are killed on opening day, and there are no doe tags availible, how many bucks beyond spikes are still gonna be around ? The 2nd day another 25% is killed. What does that do to your chances to get a buck? Severly restricts it. I like reading the other responses and learn alot from them. This is a good discussion and when minds like OURS get to thinking...there is little I think we can't solve. Good Luck and Hunt safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? IMO....Texas and some other states have been the proving grounds for QDM and its plain to see the results. Deer numbers and quality of racks on the bucks can be managed. Its possible only if your applying that management process to a static amount of land. Such as the ranches where this method began. Every year the amount of "Publically Availible Hunting Land" shrinks. How do you apply QDM to an ever decreasing amount of land? People are bludgeoned for saying they shoot a 4 pointer or a spike because if they dont their neighbor will...why...its true on public land. We hear alot of "QDM works on my 500 acres" or "We manage our land for big bucks" all the time and hear the owners of that land extole the virtues of QDM to the rest of us who just see the amount of land over the years and where we get to hunt shrink. Do we hear that new hunting land has been opened up from time to time...sure. Have we heard that 5 or 10 times or more that much land has been privatized and no longer allows the public to hunt there anymore...actually YES. We silently witness this fact every year, even here on the forums, by people saying "Someone bought the farm I used to hunt and they posted the whole thing". QDM works there is no doubt about it...its a proven fact! In reality for the "Public Land Hunters"...Its like managing the paints of an artist...but with a shrinking supply of canvas. I dont think that people who say that QDM will work even on public land are wrong. I do believe that when you factor in there are more and more people having to hunt that land and the amount of it keeps shrinking...a couple of parts of the equation that makes QDM work on any land is being overwhelmed. Please apply the "Carrying Capacity" of land to something other than deer numbers. Try applying that also to the numbers of Hunters per acre and see how the QDM equation works then. Someone is going to go without and if that happens long enough they stop buying a hunting license. Think of what I'm saying in terms of a highway...and rush hour in Los Angeles(or...deer hunting season on public land)....a Quality Driving Experience??? Keep decreasing the amount of roadways and figure out what will happen! Less and less people will continue to drive because of what they experience. Public hunting land decreases and experiences are having the same effect on the purchase of hunting licenses!!! People who dont own their own hunting land hunt public land or private land which still allows hunting. Both of which are shrinking in size and amount but have an increasing amount of people who have to hunt there. Before we concentrate on what size of rack we get to shoot when we hunt....maybe we can concentrate on having a place to hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maytom Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? [ QUOTE ] Antler restrictions is a great idea, but its getting all the hunters involved is the challenge. [/ QUOTE ] The same holds true for QDM as well. As long as all your neighbors practice the same ideas, it will work. BUT, there is too many out there that are content to blow away the first spike they see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 Re: New York State antler restrictions??? How about the guy's and gal's from the areas of pilot study in NY? Chime in here and tell us how it is going down there. Please!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.