Fellow NY's - Do you favor antler restrictions??

[Doc]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

GW-

You have illustrated my point exactly. There are areas across the state that have very low populations. Yours may be extreme, but reports that I have heard indicate that there are other areas (perhaps many other areas) that are nearly as bad in terms of super-low deer density. The past couple of years and perhaps a few off in the future have had these kinds of mixed results across the state. So, when people are struggling to even harvest a doe, how can you ask them to pass the only deer they may see during that season? Further, how can you ask them to do this year after year? How long will they continue to hunt when they are basically told that they will likely be required not to shoot? Is there any way that this could NOT have an effect on the declining hunter population?

Yes, there probably are locations where AR could be implemented without any negative effects. Those areas would have to be very closely studied and selectively deemed suitable for AR. Also, that decision would have to be an evergreen one so that it could be suspended during times of over-harvest. But this idea of one size fits all, that advocates complete statewide roll-out of AR, is one that is very short-sighted indeed, and I really hope that the DEC doesn't fall for it.

Doc

[NYBUCK]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

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I do agree also that the length of the season is too long in the northern zone at least, but if they shortened the season, would it make the woods so choked with hunters that it would be almost like constant deer drives?

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Ken I don't think so. There are statistics that 85-90% of the deer are killed opening week-end. I think if they shortened the season you would see that some of those bucks that made it through that first week-end may have a good chance for another year thus grow bigger. With the long seasons we have there are too many chances for those young bucks to get shot.

I would like to know the areas that some of you are talking about where the deer numbers are so low. Yes I know the northern teir that is the case, but what units in the southern teir. I grew up and have hunted all by life about 20 minutes from where GW is talking about. I experienced the same type of situations the past two years but I don't believe that the deer were not there, they had just been pushed of the property for some reason. Last year some friends of mine who hunt coyote with dogs came in after the deer season and hammered them. They took at least 8 coyotes out of the deer woods where we hunt. I am now a believer that coyotes had more of an impact on the deer than anything else. This year I saw deer all over the place, mostly does and small bucks. GW is in a tough spot because of the CWD area but I know the area and it is very similar to where I hunt. I just don't know of places in the southern part of the state that are hurting for deer. My point to all the garbage is that I think there are plenty of deer in the southern part of the state but other factors are causing them to change there patterns and their core area.... Coyotes, houses going up, atv riders ect. If there are areas out there that have such low numbers then the DEC needs to look at that if and when they implement an antler restriction. Maybe there are some areas that just don't warrant it. I don't think there is in the southern zone but I have been wrong before.

There was alos something said about antler restriction creating more "poachers" and "illegal Harvest". Is it going to happen, absolutely !!!! But it happens now. I could go on and on about the slobs in my area that shoot multiple bucks and does and use someone elses tags. These are the same people that are retired or have the whole hunting season off and think they have the right to shoot as many deer as they want. I am all for antler restrictions, mainly because MAYBE if it was implemented these types of people would think twice about having a deer in the back of the truck with someones elses tag on it if it had to have at leats 3 or 4 points on a side. Probablly not though. But before antler restrictions can take place I think that NY needs to do something about the "slobs" that shoot multiple deer, poach, road hunt, or don't tag their deer all together. I know that noone on this board does that kind of thing but it happens everywhere with little or no consequences. If we had a way to control that situtation then the hunters that everyone is talking about that doesn't have all the time to hunt and can only get out maybe one week-end would have the chance to shoot a buck or doe. Now throw antler restrictions in and that same hunter has a chance to shoot a nice mature buck. Bottom line ..... NY has a lot of work to do in order to preserve deer hunting in the state and to improve the overall health of the heard.

[Doc]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

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I just don't know of places in the southern part of the state that are hurting for deer.

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You are probably right, you DON'T know about those places, and understandably so. Because I'm sure you have not hunted the entire southern zone or even a significant portion of it. If you get a chance to look at the permit quotas for the southern zone in a comparison chart of this year vs. last year (I believe it is on the DEC website), you will see that the DEC figures that there are a substantial number of WMUs that need herd re-building. That is born out by the heavily reduced permit numbers this year in a lot of those areas. Also, anyone who thinks that the southern zone is just one big homogenous area of common habitat and deer densities is sadly mistaken. If you were somehow able to hunt an entire county and even had a staff of biologists to comb every inch of that county, you still would have no clue about conditions in the very next adjoining township, let alone the entire southern zone. Even within a single WMU, habitats and deer densities as well as hunting pressures can have very little resemblance from one township to the next. There are also pretty good clues on some of these forums that there are quite a few areas that have some pretty crappy deer hunting this year, last year and in some cases the year before that. I actually respect the opinions of those who describe conditions of deer scarcity. Actually, I have no basis to argue with them about it. They are the ones who are walking the ground in their hunting areas, not me. Also, I suspect that they are just as capable of judging the deer densities in their hunting areas as I am for my hunting lands. So, we should use great care when making sweeping statement about ALL of the southern zone. Heck, I wouldn't even try to make statements about conditions and situations in the next township or for that matter, anywhere where I haven't actually spent considerable time hunting and scouting .... lol.

Doc

[NYBUCK]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

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I just don't know of places in the southern part of the state that are hurting for deer.

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You are probably right, you DON'T know about those places, and understandably so. Because I'm sure you have not hunted the entire southern zone or even a significant portion of it.

Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

That is exactly why I asked the question, I wasn't really making a statement I was looking for info. I would like to hear the comments from those who feel their area is way down. I have hunted quite a few southern areas and a lot of the northern portion of the state. I guess the biggest thing is that 2003 and 2004 I was under the same impression, Our area had no deer and way to many permits given out. But this year I saw deer everyday, and not just one but many. I don't think the heard can rebuild itself that fast. I just think there are other factors effecting our deer populations and coyotes are number one on my list. They are out of control.

[Doc]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

If you read a lot of the comments on forums like this one and check out the DEC's significant cuts in permit issuance from 2004 to 2005, and listen to the statements of the DEC themselves, it is obvious that all is not well throughout the southern tier. Actually from the cuts in the permits, it can be seen exactly what WMU's the DEC thinks need some herd re-building. It should also be remembered that the DEC's reactions on a WMU by WMU basis does not necessarily reflect conditions of all localities within those WMUs. Our WMU has completely opposite deer densities within 12 miles. Those are 2 different hunting areas that I am familiar with. Who knows how the conditions vary even between those two localities.

That is one of the dangers of coming up with widespread conclusions, recommendations and proposals based simply on the observations of one's own personal hunting grounds. People in my area would view AR one way and people 12 miles down the road would see it an entirely different way.

That was the only point of my response was to indicate that trying to come up with conclusions about any statewide program (Taken in the context of this AR thread), based on local observations is an inappropriate and perhaps dangerous thing to do. I suspect that only the DEC has the resources to make those conclusions, and they are going to be hard-pressed to figure it all out even with all their resources.

Doc

[jgbennett6]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

I feel that some people are just obsessed with shooting a deer that has testicles!!.. honestly, people are more proud of shooting a spike than a 3 year old doe.. i dont understnad sometimes. I shoudln;t say more proud, every single deer is a trophy and every hunter should eb proud of every deer harvested. However someone stated that they wanted people who practice QDM to be honest. I want the honest answer as to why people would rather shoot a spike horn than a doe if they had the proper permits?.

[VtBowhunter]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

Doc, I can respect that you like to research what's going on in your area.....Heck that's great, but you seem like the type that would know better then to listen to the DEC. They're going to tell you whatever suits their purpose best. It's like that in every state.

We've been going through that with our DFW, and we wait until the annual deer meetings to call them out in front of a lot of other hunters. You'ld be amazed at how quickly they do an about face on some of their statements.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

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They're going to tell you whatever suits their purpose best. It's like that in every state.

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Fortunately, that's not true for those of us who live in Texas. Our Parks and Wildlife Dept., while not perfect, is still a great organization that usually has the best interests of the hunters, fishermen, and the wildlife in mind. While there is some politics involved, by and large their decisions are based on sound science and they do value the input from the sportsmen in the state.

[NYBUCK]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

They're going to tell you whatever suits their purpose best. It's like that in every state.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fortunately, that's not true for those of us who live in Texas. Our Parks and Wildlife Dept., while not perfect, is still a great organization that usually has the best interests of the hunters, fishermen, and the wildlife in mind. While there is some politics involved, by and large their decisions are based on sound science and they do value the input from the sportsmen in the state.

[/ QUOTE ]

Texan that is awesome that your agency cares about the hunters, because NY DEC does not.

[Swamphunter]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

They're going to tell you whatever suits their purpose best. It's like that in every state.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fortunately, that's not true for those of us who live in Texas. Our Parks and Wildlife Dept., while not perfect, is still a great organization that usually has the best interests of the hunters, fishermen, and the wildlife in mind. While there is some politics involved, by and large their decisions are based on sound science and they do value the input from the sportsmen in the state.

[/ QUOTE ]

Texan that is awesome that your agency cares about the hunters, because NY DEC does not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree Jim, I think the NYS DEC looks at the deer herd as a marketable item and that is the beacking for 90% of the decision making towards the permits and licenses, and the forecasted deer take. I think if they truely wanted to improve the herd, it could have been done.

[Doc]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

I certainly have had my share of harsh words for the DEC, but I've got to admit that I would not want their job. When I think about the size of the tasks they are charged with and the fact that they are constantly faced with diminishing resources to do those tasks, I often wonder how it is that the results are not worse.

Sometimes we get the feeling that they have hordes of biologists that just pour across the land and gather all the data required for complete and thorough management. Well, financial limitations do not allow that level of on-the-ground data-taking. So, the only tools left in that situation are statistical analysis techniques with a small supply of good, up-to-date data. That sort of thing would be great if the state was not so totally diverse in terms of habitat, and hunting pressure. Imagine trying to manage a herd that can be totally opposite in terms of density, on land that has totally opposing habitat, and hunter pressures from one property to the next. How would YOU do that? How about being charged with managing a herd on land that you really have no control over ....... how would YOU do that? How about if your duties were increased to include air and water purity, and chemical spills and passing judgement on wetlands variances and a miriad of other environmental activities that you had never been required to manage before. With each of these new tasks coming without proper funding, do you think you could still do your deer management thing to a degree that would keep everybody happy?

Now imagine that while you are struggling to just merely keep deer numbers under control and somewhat balanced throughout every acre of the state, you had all kinds of business people whose livlihoods were being threatened by heavy numbers of deer, sniping at your heels, going over your head to legislators, and just generally making your life miserable. In other words, outsiders forcing you to take on all these outside concerns and people-issues that are not necessarily in keeping with your initial management plans.

Now, here comes the hunters, fresh off their couch after watching their dose of Saturday morning hunting shows or just polishing off 14 straight hours of watching all those hunting videos that they got for Christmas. Their heads are all charged up with visions of huge racked bucks, and they are now demanding that the already threadbare DEC manage the state just like those professional, pay-to-hunt deer farms that produce 95% of the trophy animals in those TV shows and videos. They want them to compete with commercial game farms that have complete control of every animal and hunter on the property as well as the ability to manage gene pools and diet of the animals and all the other activities required to grow those freakish racked deer that we all want. The only thing is, they want them to do this across an entire state where they have absolutely none of the controls and resources available to these commercial hunting ranches.

Oh, and by the way, add in the threat that their only control tool, the hunters, are declining at an alarming rate, if you want to see some real panicky, knee-jerk decisions being made.

I'm thinking they have their plate, not only full, but overflowing already, and it's almost to the point where some pretty disastrous mistakes could be made. We're already seeing some of that already.

If I have any real complaints, it is that the DEC is not forthcoming with the fact that they are overwhelmed. All statements coming from the DEC indicates that all is well and that they have everything under control. Unfortunately, this is where all the unrealistic expectations come from. I realize that this is also where the politics comes in, and bad news usually costs people their jobs. But nothing will ever improve until they first admit that they need help and that the job is not getting done, and why.

I don't know whether I have stated the DEC's case accurately or included the whole story. I am not really in a position to do that I suppose. But sitting here as one hunter watching the results of all this, this is the opinion is that I have developed. And, that's all it is..... an opinion.

Doc

[NYBUCK]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

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I.

If I have any real complaints, it is that the DEC is not forthcoming with the fact that they are overwhelmed. All statements coming from the DEC indicates that all is well and that they have everything under control. Unfortunately, this is where all the unrealistic expectations come from. I realize that this is also where the politics comes in, and bad news usually costs people their jobs. But nothing will ever improve until they first admit that they need help and that the job is not getting done, and why.

Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow Doc we have the same opinion on something, kinda.

But seriously, I agree with you that the DEC has had its resources cut dramatically. The problem I have with them is that they try to be politically corect and make everyone happy. I know that they can not cover every piece of ground in NYS but they do have a resource they can use and they fail to. That is the hunter who is in the field day in and day out. Now I know that you will think that this wouldn't be accurate but commitees could be formed, special groups could be selected and we as hunters ( I think) would glady volunteer our time that we already put in the field and offer real data. With todays technology and information we definately could obtain better information from the field than is already out there. Instead the DEC tells us one thing then turns around and does the complete opposite. I know that it is not all there fault yet the responsibilty falls on the libers in Albany and the people with money, ie insurance companies. But I still believe the DEC has no back bone. You can't tell me that other states do not have the same financial woes in the outdoor world as NY does. They just have a clue as what they are doing.

By the way, I like the way this thread is going and want more opinions and input. We need not bash each other for our opinions but possibly come up with more ideas. Who knows maybe at some point the DEC will ask for our input and we can help out NYS and the way they manage the deer herd.

[Swamphunter]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

Jim, let me ask a question...do you think that it is a big myth about insurance companies pushing to lower the deer herd or do you think there is some bearing to it? I can see why they may be in favor of a smaller deer herd and can't say as I would blame them, but do you think they actually weigh in on the decisions of the DEC??

[NYBUCK]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

Personally, yes I think they do but they are not the only ones. I think the DEC is easily pursuaded. As liberal as NY is I think that the anti's also would love to see the deer herd cut way back that less and less people hunt. I have a warped mind I guess that my outlook on NY is pretty bleek. And I don't think the DEC has much say in what happens.

[GWSmith]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

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...Now imagine that while you are struggling to just merely keep deer numbers under control and somewhat balanced throughout every acre of the state, you had all kinds of business people whose livlihoods were being threatened by heavy numbers of deer, sniping at your heels, going over your head to legislators, and just generally making your life miserable. In other words, outsiders forcing you to take on all these outside concerns and people-issues that are not necessarily in keeping with your initial management plans.

....All statements coming from the DEC indicates that all is well and that they have everything under control.

[/ QUOTE ]

Supposedly these varying problems is being dealt with by the:

Citizen Task Forces on Deer Management

At the very first DEC meeting held on the "Proposed Rule Changes for 2004" in Binghamton, NY. and after the presentation by the DEC I asked the first question:

"When was the last time the Citezen Task Force has met in this area"?

The DEC representative present did not have an answer.

This discussion has reminded me of that meeting in many ways. A varying amount of many different reasons for change and the exact reason the meeting was on the verge of boiling over.

We all have input, based on what we have seen in our areas, that we feel is not being addressed in any way by the DEC.

Consistently that statement was rebutted by the DEC with their use of "Citezen Task Forces".

I checked the DEC website for more information and to see what the updated facts are on the subject...this is what I found out:

The Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) has used Citizen Task Forces to assist in making deer management decisions in New York State for more than a decade. The use of Task Forces have been part of a major effort to involve New Yorkers in the process of determining appropriate deer population sizes. Citizen Task Forces on deer management have proven to be a very successful application of this concept.

In 1990, (DEC) and Cornell Cooperative Extension (CCE) organized citizen task forces in fifteen Wildlife Management Units (WMUs) throughout the state. Since that initial effort, task forces have been convened at least once in almost all WMUs where legal authority for management exists.

I'm sure we can all rest easy with the knowledge that our individual Task Forces representing each area have met AT LEAST ONCE since 1990

Lets just say that IF(and its a big IF) the practice of this fact finding process is somehow a miracle cure and entails relevant data gleaned from these individuals involved....I can only imagine how accurate the basis of their information is HAVING MET AT LEAST ONCE.

Actually...I dont have to imagine....I asked that question as well and here is the answer I was given:

"Thats when the Mathematicians take over"

So who makes up these Task Forces?

Again directly from the DEC website:

DEC staff, in consultation with the task force facilitator, identify the various stakeholders (interests) in deer management in a given WMU. Stakeholders are people affected by deer who have a particular concern or interest in the overall population of deer in a WMU. Farmers, hunters, foresters, conservationists, motorists, the tourism industry, landowners, small business, etc, are all considered as potentially distinct stakeholder groups.

Its at this point I would like to make something very clear, by bringing your attention to something contained in the DEC's statement, about the Daunting Task that faces the DEC that "DOC" eluded to in his comments:

"Since that initial effort, task forces have been convened at least once in almost all WMUs where legal authority for management exists. "

Where Legal Authority for management exists!!!

Has anyone ever heard another hunter say:

"All the deer have left this WMU and ran over onto that private property"

Anyone want to try State Wide Management now???

[RangerClay]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

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I guess I'm one of those whiners who hunts for meat more than for antler size.I've been hunting deer for 30yrs now and still enjoy shooting any buck.Sure if I had a choice between a 8pt or a spike I'm going to take the 8pt.Would I want to shoot a trophy size buck every yr?In all honesty NO! That's what makes taking a trophy deer so special because they are rare.

Some of you say AR'S will also make the deer heathier.Well I can't see where the deer on our property can be much healthier.

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Thank You!!! Finally someone is saying what I have been saying outside of this discussion in public. How can the deer on my hill be any healthier? Presently I see everything you have listed as the signs of a healthy herd.

I have been away for a week on vacation/illness and I can see this has gone from good to bad to ugly. I'm glad to see it going back to good. To answer your question about the 8 point and the spike. If they were standing side by side as you stated I would shoot the 8. However if the spike popped out 5 minutes ahead of the 8 point when we do one of our drives I'm taking the bird in the hand. Deer rarely give you a second chance.

No I am not going to spend $500-$1000 on archery equipment that I do not feel confident with just so I can shoot a doe.

To NYBuck and all the farmers out there I apologise and take back my comment about the holsteins although I still believe that venison is a lot better than beef

GW well said about the DEC!!!

If you would like a different spin on this I read a neat article this past week in the Dec./Jan. issue of Archery magazine entitled, "I Love My Little Bucks". I wish I could post it here without violating copyright laws. I article read my mind and I could not have said it better myself. I would encourage everyone to take the time to read it.

Have a good night

Ranger

[Adjam5]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

Ok...This thread has taken a turn for the better.

Good points are being made.

Me, I don't need a TV show or holiday dvd's to get me in the QDM mode. I have been hunting over 20 years and I always wished there were bigger deer, heathier deer and more deer. That was before dvd's and team realtree et al...

I did not spend $500-600 on my 1st bow, I spent $75 , a used one. Killed my 1st 2 bow deer with it too. 2 does, the same year . I still have it. But after I was hooked on bow hunting, I did go out and buy a big $ bow. I was able to, but I still could have hunted with the old bow.

I went to 3 DEC meetings over last winter, 2 concerning CWD and the other was a

"Alternative deer harvest meeting" a Sullivan comm college in Loch Sheldrake last Feb 12th... I think.

Which focused primarily on Antler restrictions( there it is that cursed word again ) Most everyone(114 people,counted by DEC) in the room voted( with a hand up vote) in favor of AR's, with possibly a 3 on one side rule . Like what was put in 3A and 3J last year. Many also asked for a year round coyote season, myself included. I feel that has alot to do with the deer population reduction. DEC said "NO".

That AR's they had us up there to talk about, were not put in place.

ANYONE who thinks decisions that are made by DEC are NOT political, does NOT know NY politics.

How many commisioners has DEC had in the last 2 years??? Anyone?...3... Thats right 3...I don't know if Sheehan is permanant yet. Do you also know she has NO backround in the Outdoors or game biology?

This a appointed position, who has to be on the Governors team...PERIOD. His stand is your stand if you want to work.

So, the governor takes campaign contributions right?

Do ya think any insurance companies might have an interest in a deer herd reduction? Are you following me here...?

Certain WMU's have DEC no "deer take objective", some have over 5 per sq mile. Some areas could benifit from AR's and some can't. More intensive study needs to be done and the regular Joe hunter could supply that info, but it could be accurate info, and not politically tainted info.

I think DEC SHOULD ask EVERY hunter their opinion about AR's in the areas where they hunt. I would be willing to donate a buck or 2 for that info, just like the venison donation program, and the Habitat access stamp I give every to year.

I do not feel that DEC listens to hunters or the public at all. Not just because of the afformentioned issues, but in general. I have witnessed a WHOLE community rally against a power plant, and DEC said too bad...its going in anyway.

Tell me politics had no play in that?

AR's, area by area basis, based on survey info.

IMO

[Swamphunter]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

Has anyone else been receiving those "deer sighting/ per hours of hunting "surveys. I have been getting them every year for the last couple of years. I was wondering if they send out a lot of them or just a few.

[NYBUCK]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

Adjam good post. It seems like you and I have the same opinions. I too am glad this post has turned around, we all have opinions, I definately have mine, but I like to hear from others and who knows someone might change mine.

Ken I have never recieved any questionaire or survey from the DEC. They mentioned at the meeting that things have been sent out and I stood up and asked if anyone in the room had ever recieved one. One person raised his hand. The DEC has the most useful tool available to them right at their fingertips, the hunters, and they don't use them. I know alos at the meetings I gave them my email and I have yet to recieve one from anybody. They don't want our opinion.

[Swamphunter]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

[ QUOTE ]

I have never recieved any questionaire or survey from the DEC.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim, I have got them the last few years running. If I get anymore, I'll have them scanned and email them them to ya's or print them off and mail them to all the NYer's on here who want to send them in. I don't mind at all.

[13littleones]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

I don't hunt in the state of NY. But I Do hunt in Misssouri where they have AR 4 points on one side or better and all the doe permits you want. Plus they have a 2 day youth hunt with no AR.

why I love the AR., this past year was the 2nd year for the AR.

The land I hunt never did hold a lot of deer.. All the locals would shoot anthing that walks by... can't blame them there...its deer season.....

The past 5 years my brothers and I have been putting out food plots and all that good stuff hoping a good buck would find his way to the farm....at the same time we started playing with cameras....3 years ago (2003) before the AR, we would get excited if we saw a nice 6 pointer or an 8 pointer...plus 3 years ago before the AR we would only see one or two 6 pointers and maybe an 8......

This year2005 we have pics of 18 different bucks using only 2 cameras on 240 acres..... four 9 pointers....4 eight pointers....and the rest of the field... ..All we ended up with was a 7 pointer that I shot with a bow and we didn't have him on any of our pics lol....to top it all off, we saw more does this year than ever before... "go figure" .....Out of all those bucks (18) we had on pics...we only saw 2 of them this during the huting season....

I'm telling ya all the locals cried like a baby about the new AR the first year it started (2004).....I didn't hear one bad thing said about it this year....

More and more people have these cameras in the woods and they are liking what they see...

For the area I hunt, its a blessing..... The locals are going to shoot "anythig" thats brown anyways!!!..... but now the "small bucks walk"....waaa hooo !!! Now If I can only figure out how to make the sunshine 24 hrs. a day in mid NOV.

I will shoot a spike in a second...But I will never forget the spike that I had to let walk the first year of the AR..I must say it was pretty cool to watch him walk on......

[RangerClay]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

[ QUOTE ]

Has anyone else been receiving those "deer sighting/ per hours of hunting "surveys. I have been getting them every year for the last couple of years. I was wondering if they send out a lot of them or just a few.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never heard of it

Ranger

[GWSmith]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

[ QUOTE ]

Has anyone else been receiving those "deer sighting/ per hours of hunting "surveys. I have been getting them every year for the last couple of years. I was wondering if they send out a lot of them or just a few.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never seen or heard of them before.

The only contact of any kind related to the DEC that I have ever recieved is that I was contacted once by Cornell University and answered a telephone questionare to find out what I knew about CWD.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

13littleones - it's great to hear from someone who has directly benefitted from AR. I think your case is very typical of what happens when AR is put into place on an area that has heavy hunting pressure. The only "down" year for harvest is the first year of restrictions. By year 2 the numbers of bucks being taken are back to pre-restriction levels and by year 3 the numbers are usually exceeding pre-restriction levels. In addition, the average age/body weight/antler size of the bucks increase every year too. So in a nutshell, you get a slightly lower harvest for one season, then you get both more and bigger deer for the forseeable future. If I hunted in NY, I would find it exceedingly difficult to see any negatives with that.

[QDMAworks4me]

Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions

I agree 100% with Texan_Til_I_Die, I could not have said it any better than that