Doc Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions [ QUOTE ] What happend to the antler restriction conversation?????????????? [/ QUOTE ] Part of the answer to that original question involves what we think it would take to make AR work. If no preparatory work is done and if special considerations are ignored, then my answer is one thing. With proper planning, testing, and study (as regards whole state implementation) I think my answer switches completely around. Also, you cannot discuss AR without discussing QDM (no they are not the same thing). AR is but one portion of QDM and is not a stand-alone concept. And QDM involves land and habitat management as well as deer gender and age balance and deer density. You cannot discuss one without discussing it all. It's all interactive. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions [ QUOTE ] We're lucky here then.........posted signs remove all liability from the landowner.......trespassers are unprotected if they get hurt. [/ QUOTE ] You are indeed lucky in VT. No not really lucky but someone other than a member of the trial lawyer's Assn. probably had some input into the drafting of the legislation. We actually used some of the wording from VT GOL a few years back when we lobbied for some changes to the NY GOL. Unfortunately NY has too many legislators tied to The Trial Lawyers Assn. to get ammendments passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamphunter Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions [ QUOTE ] We're lucky here then.........posted signs remove all liability from the landowner.......trespassers are unprotected if they get hurt. [/ QUOTE ] I have my hunting property under my homeowners and it costs me $17 a year for $500,000 of protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBUCK Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions We should keep this going ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBUCK Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions *DELETED* Post deleted by VtBowhunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBUCK Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions *DELETED* Thankyou VTbowhunter. Now lets keep this going. Has anyone heard about NY branching out and doing anymore of the pilots like they did in I think it was 3C and 3J. I was at the bow shop the other night and a couple guys were saying that they heard that they were going to try a couple more units. I thought it was a little pre-mature and that I hadn't heard anything. I hope it is my unit. Anybody hear of such a thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamphunter Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions *DELETED* [ QUOTE ] Thankyou VTbowhunter. Now lets keep this going. Has anyone heard about NY branching out and doing anymore of the pilots like they did in I think it was 3C and 3J. I was at the bow shop the other night and a couple guys were saying that they heard that they were going to try a couple more units. I thought it was a little pre-mature and that I hadn't heard anything. I hope it is my unit. Anybody hear of such a thing? [/ QUOTE ] I actually spoke to my local en con guy when I was working the other day and he is not aware of any results yet. He said most likely it will be later this year after winter before they have any type of results. I asked him to keep me posted and he said he would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions [ QUOTE ] I believe we should have AR's. Just over the border from me in PA lots of guys are seeing and taking much better bucks since they implemented AR. I will shoot a doe before I'll shoot a yearling buck... My problem is, I want meat sometimes, not just a rack, so if my chance comes during archery to take a buck, I might shoot a 2year old w/ 5-6 pts. Its such a touchy issue, especially w/ folks who need the meat, they are gonna shoot whatever, AR's or not... [/ QUOTE ] Hey Doc...Here's the Information back up to my previous statements! While reading this post I had an idea to check out the Ny DEC site to see if I could find a map of where they took the samples in my county(ONEIDA). I've been looking for just this kind of proof!!! In some recent posts I have stated that I have not been seeing hardly any deer even along the roadside...here's the proof(direct from the DEC site). The green dots are where the DEC Reported to have taken deer from. The red dots are where they found "Positive Samples". I outlined the area that I have permission to hunt a local farm(in Purple to stand out). Any wonder why I did not see the amount of deer like I did in the past??? Why would I want Antler Restrictions here??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions That's interesting. I wonder if they were only taking does from that area. If not, you may not have that many bucks left to even worry about. It looks like any QDM activities in that area are pretty much on hold for awhile. Have you heard of any "next steps" that the DEC is considering in that area? Did they get a large enough sampling with the special testing hunt along with the regular gun season testing, or are they going to have another go at it this year too? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions I have not read or heard of anything either way yet. I dont know if they are going to continue testing just roadkill deer or if they are going to do another hunt this coming summer. As far as if they were all does...No Reports from one of the local archery business owners is that they took one of the biggest bucks in all the testing off of his neighbors land. He talked to some of the DEC game wardens and verified the story as well. "DEC has collected more than 3,700 samples from wild white-tailed deer". Taken from the NY DEC website media release 5/2005 MAY of Last Year...and they had already taken that many samples However I dont know the exact numbers of which sex they did harvest. Here's the link to the Webpage: http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/wildlife/deer/currentcwd.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBUCK Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions I think you are right, if the were to expand the antler restrictions it wouldn't be in that area. However, after thinking about it, maybe that would the best place to start AR's. That way it would definately give the bucks a chance to grow. Just MHO. The place where I take my deer to get cut up is just outside of Marcy NY, he told me that not one of his deer tested came back positive. He cut up over 250 deer this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2Hunt Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions My deer processor cuts around 500 deer and none of his deer were infected. This is in Jefferson co. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions Getting back to antler restrictions, you all might want to read the thread about antler restrictions in Illinois. This seems to be the state that we all want to emulate in terms of trophy deer opportunities. Note how their success has absolutely nothing to do with AR. It seems that they really have no use for this "cure-all". Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgbennett6 Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions ok then doc, what do you propose, ... as you have read in that topic most people in Il that commented practice some sort of QDM... i know very few NY hunters that Practice QDM...... In a wonderful world, there would be a law saying you cannot shoot a deer under the age of 3. But how many people do you know that can properly age a deer, or guess an accurate spread. ?....AR's are becaseu the majority of hunters can count... and can be used across the board with fewer mistakes than going by age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions I think a major contributor to the success of the Illinois deer herd is the attitude of so many of the hunters there. They have, in effect, been practicing a self imposed AR for many years. They go out expecting to have an opportunity at a big buck, so they naturally pass on the smaller/younger bucks. AR might help them slightly, but it's likely the results wouldn't be anywhere near as dramatic as they would be if AR is implemented in an area where harvest of 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks is 90% + of the total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtBowhunter Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions [ QUOTE ] I think a major contributor to the success of the Illinois deer herd is the attitude of so many of the hunters there. They have, in effect, been practicing a self imposed AR for many years. They go out expecting to have an opportunity at a big buck, so they naturally pass on the smaller/younger bucks. AR might help them slightly, but it's likely the results wouldn't be anywhere near as dramatic as they would be if AR is implemented in an area where harvest of 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks is 90% + of the total. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly......not to mention the land and farms that feed the herds so well there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions Does anybody really believe that there is that much of a difference between the attitudes of hunters in Illinois and the attitudes of hunters in NY? What is it something in the water or something in the hunter's genetic make-up between the two states? Hunters are hunters no matter where they come from, and I'll bet there are just as many "brown and down" hunters in Illinois as anywhere else. I don't buy the idea that there is any basic differencein hunter attitudes between the two states ..... sorry. I think I would be looking more at habitat and food sources and perhaps some natural geologic (mineral) advantages. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtBowhunter Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions [ QUOTE ] sorry. I think I would be looking more at habitat and food sources and perhaps some natural geologic (mineral) advantages. [/ QUOTE ] It's these reasons here, that would give hunters in Ill. a different attitude........they've had this stuff in place for so long with all the farming that that they've had the chance to sit and wait for those bigger deer, whereas here in the northeast, our farming has been suffering for a long long time, and land once used for farming and crops is now over grown with little food for herds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2Hunt Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] sorry. I think I would be looking more at habitat and food sources and perhaps some natural geologic (mineral) advantages. [/ QUOTE ] It's these reasons here, that would give hunters in Ill. a different attitude........they've had this stuff in place for so long with all the farming that that they've had the chance to sit and wait for those bigger deer, whereas here in the northeast, our farming has been suffering for a long long time, and land once used for farming and crops is now over grown with little food for herds. [/ QUOTE ]Very True! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBUCK Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions Doc. Have you ever hunted Illinois. If not you should. You betcha the attitude is different, totally. I have been out there the last two years and the locals frown and put down people who shoot small bucks. It is unbelievable to talk to some of these hunters, in fact down right refreshing. As for the land, NY has some of the best farm country in America esp in the southern teir. The food is there. Last, look at Illinois' gun season..... it is about a 8-9 days combined with two shotgun seasons and a muzzleloader season. What is NY's ....... ummmm 67 days I think I came up with. That is exactly why we need antler restriction or a reduction in the gun season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgbennett6 Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions NYbuck.....perfect post, i couldn't agree with you more. DOC NY has teh genetics and the right soil and agriculter. I was at my taxidermist he had an array of real nice 1.5-2.5 yo deer that were getting mounted. One that comes to mind was a 14 yo boys that he got with a bow, it was an 11pointer with a 16" spread, the deer weight 98lbs!!!!!...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions [ QUOTE ] As for the land, NY has some of the best farm country in America esp in the southern teir. The food is there. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] DOC NY has teh genetics and the right soil and agriculter. [/ QUOTE ] Now there is some more of what I call "over-extending your observations". So far, when it comes to the discussions about AR, I have not heard a single proponent of AR even hint that AR should be tied to local conditions in terms of habitat, hunting pressure or any other local situations that may make AR appropriate or inappropriate. It is always an argument that AR should be rolled out statewide regardless of any unique conditions that may be existing in some areas of the state. The suggestion that the southern tier is uniformly suitable for good antler growth is just plain false. There are plenty of areas in the southern zone that have completely lost all signs or benefits of farming. And then we have the suggestion that because there are some areas that produce animals of high genetic quality, that that must be the case across the entire state. Well, that may or may not be the case, but I doubt there is anybody here who can authoritatively say one way or another. My point is that AR is not a cure-all, and it is NOT going to guarantee Illinois-like results, and those who think it will, are very likely going to be terribly disappointed if AR ever goes statewide. Sometimes we are so desparate to latch onto the latest buzzword as the salvation of trophy opportunities here in NY that we don't take the time to think things through and make sure that what we are proposing makes sense. We also don't take the time to ponder whether there may be a down-side to these latest hot management ideas. I don't know whether AR is a sensible thing for NY or not, but I would really like to see some sign that the proponents have taken the time to look all the way around the subject and looked at all potential down-sides and unintended consequences. My feeling is that too many people are jumping on this bandwagon without really looking at all the different places it could be going. That old saying just might apply: "If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is". I'm also curious about some of the opponents such as the Illinois hunters, and our own DEC. If AR is so completely benign, what is their primary objections to it.......Just something to think about. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgbennett6 Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions Wow i just realized how poorly my spelling is, I apologize, i have dyslexia and is hard for me to type..sorry... i'm really not that un-intelligent Doc, I'm not saying it is a cureall, and i'm not saying it should eb statewide, but i do think it wil be better than what we have, mature deer. .... and the primary objections are that it isn't necessary in illinois..... the attitudes there are different for sure towards harvesting mature deer........honestly i feel that too many people are looking for excuses to just shoot whatever moves in the woods..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBUCK Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions NY is no different in any of the other states out west, that is in loosing farmland. Infact the West with the CPR program may be in worse shape than we are in some aspects. The problem is that is NY wants mature deer and a more balanced deer ratio, which mot biologist seem to think is the way to go then we have to do something. I don't see NY cutting down the 67 day gun season so that is why I am a firm believer that an AR program would benefit NY. These are my opinions and only mine, I know many agree with me and many dis-agree with me. That is fine. I too would love to hear other beliefs and views, esp from other states as why AR won't work in NY and or why it would help our deer herd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtBowhunter Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: Fellow NY\'s - Do you favor antler restrictions Doc, I really think you're overthinking this..........Some things are very simple to follow. You have few deer, so you put an AR in place. The young bucks get older and there will be more of them to breed the does that are there. In the end you have more deer, and as long as you take care of the habitat, you'll have a healthier deer herd. It's that simple. Yes there is a habitat issue to deal with, but if you want healthy deer you have to do that anyways. You may go without until the numbers come up, but according to you, you run that risk now anyways. And remember that there may be a lot of folks that don't want the AR, but they are the weekend warrior hunters that go to theiur favorite spot every year and wonder why they see fewer deer every year, but they don't notice how old the growth is getting around them, then they blame the state. There aren't a lot of hunters out there that get as involved with scouting and habitat as there should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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